Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Status
Not open for further replies.

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Why not try? Either treat it as a first draft, or treat it as an outline.

There isn't any one way to play this game. And if you've been growing in skill, problems that may have stopped you the first time may be surmountable now.

If the book is fatally flawed -- you'll find out.
 

BardSkye

Barbershoppin' Harmony Whore
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
2,522
Reaction score
1,009
Age
68
Location
Calgary, Canada
I don't think it's fatally flawed. Back some years ago I sent it out and got one request for a full. The agent sent me back a hand-written note saying it didn't move fast enough (it's a sports mystery.) At the time I couldn't figure out what she meant; to me it seemed to move along well. Now, thanks to all you fine folk here and Uncle Jim in particular, I'm pretty sure I can read it with new eyes and take out the speedbumps.
 

Lilybiz

glad to be here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
391
Reaction score
75
Location
Los Angeles
Website
petreaburchard.com
My novel is in its third draft, and each draft is a million percent better than the last. Still, my nightmare is that I will have spent all this time on it and it will never be good enough.

The time won't be wasted if I've learned how to write a book, and if I put that knowledge to use in writing a publishable one. I love this one, though, love my story, want it to be the one that's publishable. Am I making sense?

Just venting that little fear.
 

Nangleator

Rep Point Whore
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
408
Reaction score
59
Location
Dracut, Massachusetts
I certainly understand that point of view, aertep. I'm in the same boat. So far, though, my novel hasn't generated any interest.

Think of it as school work, I guess.
 

Lilybiz

glad to be here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
391
Reaction score
75
Location
Los Angeles
Website
petreaburchard.com
Thanks, Nangleator. If I had nothing to learn, perhaps I wouldn't find it as fascinating as I do. I don't seem to have any trouble sticking with it.
 

ted_curtis

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
131
Reaction score
18
aertep said:
My novel is in its third draft, and each draft is a million percent better than the last. Still, my nightmare is that I will have spent all this time on it and it will never be good enough.

The time won't be wasted if I've learned how to write a book, and if I put that knowledge to use in writing a publishable one. I love this one, though, love my story, want it to be the one that's publishable. Am I making sense?

Just venting that little fear.

I am in the same boat as well...except I'm officially somewhere in draft nine. It's the last one. At some point enough is enough, and either it's sellable or it never will be.

You know, it's sort of like your first love, first apartment, first kiss, first paying job...not the best you'll ever have, but still has a special place in your life.
 

Lilybiz

glad to be here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
391
Reaction score
75
Location
Los Angeles
Website
petreaburchard.com
ted_curtis said:
I am in the same boat as well...except I'm officially somewhere in draft nine. It's the last one. At some point enough is enough, and either it's sellable or it never will be.

You know, it's sort of like your first love, first apartment, first kiss, first paying job...not the best you'll ever have, but still has a special place in your life.

Ted, that's a lovely way to put it. Jim and others have told us to write the first one and put it away, then write the publishable one. You also hear of others publishing their first one. Who knows which will be the truth for us?

But what you said makes me feel better about whatever happens to my first love--er--novel.
 

paritoshuttam

Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Location
Pune, India
Website
www.paritoshuttam.com
My novel is in its third draft, and each draft is a million percent better than the last. Still, my nightmare is that I will have spent all this time on it and it will never be good enough.
...
Just venting that little fear.

Definitely identify with that feeling. I am almost done with my second rewrite (meaning version #3), and I know it's a lot better than the first two. But there's this sickening/exciting feeling that there probably could be a version #4 which is a lot better than #3. When will I get the feeling that I can't make it any better?

- Paritosh
 

Lilybiz

glad to be here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
391
Reaction score
75
Location
Los Angeles
Website
petreaburchard.com
I don't know, paritosh. I think, like painters, sooner or later we have to decide to finish and just stop.

The more I write, the better writer I become. So maybe I should just finish this book and start the next one, and let the next one be a better book, you know?
 

Cassiopeia

Otherwise Occupied
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
10,878
Reaction score
5,343
Location
Star to the right and straight on till morning.
I don't know, paritosh. I think, like painters, sooner or later we have to decide to finish and just stop.

The more I write, the better writer I become. So maybe I should just finish this book and start the next one, and let the next one be a better book, you know?
In everything we do...if we are open enough we learn. If you feel you are finished with the book..send it out and move on to the next one. Sometimes, we get so stuck because we want everything we do to be a success and so we obsess and don't finish or we spend too much time rewriting.

I have come to understand that I can not be the writer and the editor at the same time. When you are finished...review it..see if you can edit it..if not send it out for someone to say yes or no and if they say no..hopefully they will tell you constructively why the answer is no.

But never look at a lack in success as failure. It might be trite to say but the only failure is in not trying. And it is true...I have learned more in my life from my failures than my successes and the successes came after a long period of trial and error. While my successes have been in the business sector, I can't help but feel it applies to everything in life.

I would set that book aside if you have rewritten it to death and work on something new. And like I said...send out the finished book and see who bites.

Casi
 

Nangleator

Rep Point Whore
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
408
Reaction score
59
Location
Dracut, Massachusetts
UJ:

I think you've suggested before that the writer shouldn't expect any more influence over cover art than an average fan enjoys. Specifically, though, what has been your most recent experience?

Did you see more than one comp for Land of Mist and Snow, or just final art? Have you ever been able to offer advice, or choose from a couple different presentations? Will you ever get that chance?
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
In the case of Land of Mist and Snow, the publisher asked for cover suggestions, we sent several, they went with something else. We saw the finished art (which, BTW, is totally gorgeous, even better than the final printed version).

In other cases, we've been asked for cover suggestions and have had them used. Or asked for scenes from books that the artist might find useful. For interior art we've had more of a chance to comment, and have worked with the artist. But mostly -- the first we've known of the cover art was when the cover flats came in.

Complaining about the cover art is the author's traditional right. (See Mr. Earbrass for an example.)
 

Dru

Professionally Paranoid
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
468
Reaction score
9
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
Speaking of:

Just thought you should know Land of Mist and Snow had a nice end-cap at the local B&N where I picked up my copy, shelved right next to Naomi Novik's Temeraire books. Nice synergy there.
 

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
6,432
Reaction score
1,343
Location
Silicon Valley
Finally taking the plunge to post in this thread. I read about half of this thread in full when I first found AW and I've just refreshed my memory by reading the "Uncle Jim, undiluted" thread, and right now I feel like the kid from the Far Side cartoon ("May I be excused? My brain is full.") Also, I'd like to add my thanks for all the information here. Very helpful.

So, apologies if this has been covered before, but I was wondering about carrying the story through dialog vs. narrative. In my fantasy WIP, I've got talking scenes interspersed with action scenes, and I find whenever I get stuck I fall back to writing dialog rather than action. For me, the story flows whenever I can write dialog, but trying to write description feels like I'm pulling out my own teeth. Any suggestions or exercises to make writing description easier? Any suggestions on how to gauge whether there's too much or too little description?
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, because we published a short story that was 100% dialog (not even any 'said' tags).

Okay, here's what you can do. Print out your chapters and tape the pages to the wall on the far side of your living room. Look at the grey areas. Too many big blocks? Break them up with dialog. Too thin and jaggety? Add a few paragraphs of narrative.

Be certain that you aren't writing a "head story" (the one where the story is in your head, not on the paper).

Okay, now go to your favorite book, with a couple of highlighters in hand. Highlight dialog in yellow and description in green. See how that author handled the mix.

I can't give you a formula, or an easy trick. This is where you'll be making your own art.
 

Lilybiz

glad to be here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
391
Reaction score
75
Location
Los Angeles
Website
petreaburchard.com
dialogue vs. description

Jim's right. Try those things, they'll help. They helped me (especially hanging the story on the wall).

TheIT, you're right, too--dialogue helps a story flow. As a reader, I balk when I come upon huge blocks of unbroken text. Dialogue tells me the characters are carrying the scene, as opposed to the narrator. The action feels like it's happening, as opposed to the narrator describing how it happened. It feels more immediate.

Example:
"Eat this." With dirty hands, he tossed her a slice of bread.

"Thanks." She took a bite, trying not to think of germs.

Instead of:
He tossed her a slice of bread with dirty hands, and told her to eat it. She thanked him and took a bite, trying not to think of germs.

Okay, it's early, this isn't genius. But I think dialogue brings us into the scene and description kinda hurries through it. There are times when you need to do one, and times when you need to do the other.
 

BrendaK

Registered
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Location
Central North Carolina
New 'zine, bad name

Jim,

In case nobody has mentioned this yet, I reluctantly draw your attention to a new listing in the Paying Markets section of ralan.com. The title of the publication is _Yog's Notebooks_. I was surprised when I saw it, since I didn't think you were about to start a 'zine and I didn't think you'd lend your support to one.

Sure enough, on reading the guidelines, the words "James" and "Macdonald" appear nowhere. Also, I know that Yog was a character's name (in Lovecraft?) long before Yog Sysop became your nickname.

Still, personally, I don't like this. You've helped so many people over the years, including me, that I'm afraid a casual reader will associate your name and your reputation with this market.

Any thoughts?

Brenda Kalt
 

BrendaK

Registered
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Location
Central North Carolina
From their guidelines: "The editors of Yog's Notebook are looking for sf/fantasy/horror short stories and flash fiction about what happens when people encounter the unexpected." FYI.

Brenda Kalt
 

Vince

Narration Question

Hi – I’m looking for some advice on a narration question that I have. I refer to my main character by his first name throughout the book. But I’m at a point where I’m telling the story from the villain’s POV. In my head the villain would never call the main character by his first name. So the question is, even though I’ve used “John” when narrating the entire story so far, is it acceptable to start referring to him as “Smith” when I'm telling the story from the villain's POV? Again this is only in narration, in dialogue I have been using “Smith” when the villain speaks.

Thanks, Vince
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Change in POV entails ... changing the Point of View. If the POV character calls this person "Smith," then that's what he calls him. I don't see a problem.

How else will we know that POV has changed than that there are differences between the voices?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.