Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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batgirl

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Maybe it should be a sticky?

I haven't found this question in the thread yet, so--
It's recommended to have all the major characters on deck by p.100 (I'm guessing that's in SMF, double-spaced and all), and Logical Chess says develop the pieces before the pawns. I can see the sense of this.
But what if the necessary action of the story means that a character who will prove to be important doesn't appear until the second half or last third of the book? For instance, if characters are travelling to the place where they'll meet him/her, or she/he arrives with a group that's in transit for the first part of the book?
One solution, I guess, is to have that character-in-waiting be thought of or remembered by the onstage characters prior to appearance. That way s/he is present in the reader's mind at least.
But what if that character is previously unknown to the others? Is it necessary to write a second thread for him/her until they meet?
I know that no rules are absolute, but usually I'd prefer to bend or circumvent them than break them.
-Barbara
 

Lady of Prose

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Bufty said:
Just popping this thread back on to the front page where it belongs.

Thanks Bufty. You are so right.


Bagirl, making it a sticky is a good suggestion. I hope it will be considered.
 

cuteshoes

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for the record, when i first came here i was very confused because there were stickied directories to the writing with uncle jim thread but the thread wasn't on page one and i had no idea what thread all those stickies referred to.
 

Nangleator

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Batgirl,

I try to think of all my characters as major, and the central part of some story, even if it isn't the one I'm telling. And even if they have a walk-on in chapter 11.

I think the prohibition here is against introducing a pivotal figure too late. We as the reader would feel cheated not to have followed that person's story.
 

Duncan J Macdonald

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Lady of Prose said:
Thanks Bufty. You are so right.


Bagirl, making it a sticky is a good suggestion. I hope it will be considered.
I do believe that it was, way back in the mists of time. Our genial host decided that if in the course of human events the thread dropped off the front page, that was the Will of the Universe and not to be flouted. So only interest and continued posting will keep it afloat.
 

Lady of Prose

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:) I was aware, actually, that it was at one time a sticky. I "read" it more than I posted. I was hoping a gentle hint might bring the front page status back, since it's an invaluable tool to anyone wanting to read, or make an occasional comment. But of course, the boss knows best in these cases. :)

Maybe some of the newer people will take notice and participate.
 

ted_curtis

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batgirl said:
I haven't found this question in the thread yet, so--
It's recommended to have all the major characters on deck by p.100 (I'm guessing that's in SMF, double-spaced and all), and Logical Chess says develop the pieces before the pawns. I can see the sense of this.
But what if the necessary action of the story means that a character who will prove to be important doesn't appear until the second half or last third of the book? For instance, if characters are travelling to the place where they'll meet him/her, or she/he arrives with a group that's in transit for the first part of the book?

Well, in my opinion, if you're characters are travelling to meet someone, you have, in fact, introduced them. A good example would be The Wizzard of Oz -- he's introduced well before he shows up on stage. Another classic example would be Waiting for Godot, where Godot never actually appears.
 

James D. Macdonald

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I'm back, having driven 2,846.3 miles since last Wednesday morning. My elder son is now a Mechanical Engineer with a diploma to prove it. He's going to grad school in the fall.

My own opinion on stickiness: If the thread isn't active enough to be on the first page, it doesn't deserve to be on the first page. (When it sinks off the page, that's a reminder to me that I need to post.)

The page-one-hundred rule (not so much a rule as a guideline): If you're writing War And Peace, or the Bible, you can introduce major characters later on. There are other special circumstances. Examine your story. If it's better with a major character introduced nearer to the end, then it's better.

Be very sure that it's better. (Your beta readers will tell you.)
 

Nangleator

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ted_curtis said:
... Waiting for Godot, where Godot never actually appears.
In the extended DVD of Return of the King, PJ and his screenwriters described how they nearly added Sauron as a character coming out of the black gate to duel with Aragorn. Good gracious. We came that close to having that artistic triumph so sullied...
 

Liam Jackson

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Congrats to the entire Macdonald family and best wishes to the newly annointed engineer!
 

SeanDSchaffer

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James D. Macdonald said:
I'm back, having driven 2,846.3 miles since last Wednesday morning. My elder son is now a Mechanical Engineer with a diploma to prove it. He's going to grad school in the fall.

....Snipped.


First, I want to congratulate your son on his diploma. That is outright awesome!


Second, I want to let you all know that, for the first time since I joined this board, I actually set aside a time this morning for BIC.

At nine this morning, I sat at my typewriter for a little under an hour, plunking away at my present WIP. It would have been a longer period of time, except that a neighbor knocked on my door ten minutes before the end of the hour.

The work as it is now, is in the midst of Chapter 7, with my having completed Chapters 5 and 6 this morning. I will definitely be BIC'ing regularly, every morning from nine to ten. I might also set aside another time in the morning or afternoon to BIC a second time in the day. I find that my productivity is outstanding when I sit with Butt In Chair, doing nothing but writing.
 

James D. Macdonald

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SeanDSchaffer said:
I might also set aside another time in the morning or afternoon to BIC a second time in the day. I find that my productivity is outstanding when I sit with Butt In Chair, doing nothing but writing.

Do what's comfortable for you.

Later, you'll want to set aside time to do an hour of original writing, and an hour of editing/rewriting an earlier work.

An hour here, an hour there. It adds up.
 

SeanDSchaffer

James D. Macdonald said:
Do what's comfortable for you.

Later, you'll want to set aside time to do an hour of original writing, and an hour of editing/rewriting an earlier work.

An hour here, an hour there. It adds up.


That sounds like a good idea. I think I'll reserve my second BIC time in each day for something other than the work I'm doing now, like you said. Maybe I could use it to outline another work I started, and then had to stop on because it was heading nowhere.

I originally had thought about waiting to outline the other WIP until I was finished with my present one. But what you just described would give me a lot more purpose and versatility in my writing time. Thank you kindly for the suggestion; I will definitely use it.
 

Ken Schneider

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Excellent, to Jim's son.

Excellent, to all who are flying through writing their WIP with enthusiasm.


I'm in a funk as it pertains to writing. I can't get anything on paper-computer that seems worth a darn. Painfully slow right now.

Be well all,
Ken
 

SeanDSchaffer

Ken Schneider said:
Excellent, to Jim's son.

Excellent, to all who are flying through writing their WIP with enthusiasm.


I'm in a funk as it pertains to writing. I can't get anything on paper-computer that seems worth a darn. Painfully slow right now.

Be well all,
Ken


Believe it or not, I'm going through something similar right now. Sure, I have my WIP that is moving along at a good clip, but my muse is basically giving me stuff that I'm not really proud of, when it comes to new writing.

The point I'm making is, Ken, that we all go through this kind of thing. But the fact that you're writing anything at all when you're going through this, I think is good. You might not like what you're writing, but you're still putting it on paper/computer. That's important, because it continues to build and hone your skills.

I hope this helps you out, Ken, and I wish you all the best.
 

BardSkye

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I've learned more about writing on this thread in a couple of days' worth of reading than in years of just going my own way. (I'm still going through the back posts.) Sooner or later it will make me a writer. It might even make me an editor one day. Thanks to everyone who contributes here.
 

Merricat

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Ken Schneider said:
Excellent, to Jim's son.

Excellent, to all who are flying through writing their WIP with enthusiasm.


I'm in a funk as it pertains to writing. I can't get anything on paper-computer that seems worth a darn. Painfully slow right now.

Be well all,
Ken

I'm returning to novels after a couple of dead end attempts earlier this year (damn you, college social life), and I'm taking it slow at the moment; the rule is one scene a day, every day. No time limit or length limit on the scenes, they're as long or as short as they need to be (although they've almost all been at least a page, usually well over it).

I'm thinking of it as a placeholder draft. I don't have to have the dialogue perfect or all the details correct; these scenes are just so I know what occurs, what people say or don't say, who is in each scene and how it fits in with everything else.

Flying through your story is optimal, but after two years of not finishing anything long than 5k, I'll settle for a painful but determined limp.
 

BardSkye

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Choppy introductions

The story I'm working on is a "coming of age" novel involving several subplots with a fantasy setting. There are two different characters each having to "come of age" and two distinct civilizations involved as each character has to overcome his heritage to fit into a third world.

In order to get my main players on the stage and set up the various threads in the weave each should probably have at least a short introductory passage but how do I keep it from being choppy at the beginning? Is there a rule of thumb concerning how long between sections you should go without losing the reader?

The link downthread for Celtic knots was interesting, though it wouldn't get me to the exact knot that was being shown. A fascinating concept for weaving a story which I'm going to try this evening!

Thanks, everyone.
 

BardSkye

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Thanks for the quick reply. I'll mess about with it for a while, then, and let my readers tell me if it doesn't work.
 

Ken Schneider

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Merricat said:
I'm returning to novels after a couple of dead end attempts earlier this year (damn you, college social life), and I'm taking it slow at the moment; the rule is one scene a day, every day. No time limit or length limit on the scenes, they're as long or as short as they need to be (although they've almost all been at least a page, usually well over it).

I get my BIC time in everyday to be sure. I've cut my time here down to about nothing. Jim knows that he has told me, and everyone else to just write. The problem now is that when you start to learn the rights and wrongs of the craft as I have in a year of tutorship here at AW, I can't get beyond leaving a wrong sentence or word that isn't the best one, on the page. It has to be perfect, or as perfect to right and good as I can get it.

I hope to let it go and let the story begin to write itself again, soon.

Has anyone heard if those who participated in the short story excerise we did over the holidays, given by UJ, has had any success in publication? I've sent mine out, but haven't heard back yet.

Ken
 
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