Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

James D. Macdonald · Feb 7, 2006

What definition of "professional" do you want? There's been discussion on this forever, without consensus.

One point of view is that there's no such thing as a professional writer, because the only "professions" are those that have licenses, such as doctor or lawyer.

Another point of view is that anyone who gets paid for his/her writing is a "professional" writer.

I don't think that anyone's argued that only full-time writers are "professional," since if that were true there'd be darned few.

My personal opinion is that "professional" is a state of mind. If you act "professionally," (that is, in a businesslike way) then you're a professional writer. Know the standards, apply them, and so on. When your work is published by professional markets (that is, ones that sell copies to the public for money), then one is a professional.

Duncan J Macdonald · Feb 7, 2006

Ken Schneider said:
I am not U.J, of course, though, I pester him so much one might think I'm his younger brother.

Nope. Sorry. That position has already been filled.

SeanDSchaffer · Feb 7, 2006

Uncle Jim, I have a question for you, if I may.

That WIP I've been working on: it looks like I might be able to squeeze another 3,000 or 4,000 words out of it without fouling it up. It probably will end up no more than 55,000 words in length.

I've thought about another character and sub-plot like you suggested, but I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to build another sub-plot too readily. I could do it, but it will take quite some time.

Therefore, my question is: should I trunk this novel or perhaps put it on the back burner? A learning experience of sorts, and move on to another work that is longer and perhaps better?

I'm not discouraged like I was before, but I am concerned that this work's length would be a problem in getting it sold.

What say ye? Should I trunk it, or should I shop it?

Ashling · Feb 7, 2006

Thanks Ken, Berry & Jim. We hold similar views on what makes a writer a professional. Back to the grant grind.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 7, 2006

SeanDSchaffer said:
I could do it, but it will take quite some time.

And this is a problem how? Take the time.

SeanDSchaffer · Feb 7, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
And this is a problem how? Take the time.

Uncle Jim, I will do what you said. But I would like to explain, if it's all right with you, why I thought it would be a problem.

I've always written my works very slowly. My only printed work took me 17 years to complete, and it wasn't done to my satisfaction when I submitted it.

I was worried that other writers would look down upon me if I did not get the work done quickly, say, in 6 months or so. I do not want to take another 17 years to write one book. I know I can do a better job in less time, because of what experience I have actually writing my previous work. But I worry that I'll still be writing this manuscript several years down the way without any visible progress.

Do you understand what I'm saying? I know I worry way too much, but I feel driven to perform beyond my abilities much of the time, which is highly stressful at best.

Anyway, I was just wondering what you thought I should do before I made my decision. I looked over the work a few minutes ago, and I think I know how to lengthen the book without doing anything that will take away from the story. Another thing I've noticed is that five chapters near the end can be much better written and presented. They're kind of lame compared to the first five chapters; I'm thinking about adding some action to the chapters as well as adding some extra tension. It's looking like I will have 19 or 20 chapters altogether when I get done, whereas I have 18 chapters now.

So I will take the time. It may take quite awhile to get the work to publishable status....possibly another year, even. But I know from previous experience that I personally will be more pleased with the work if I take the time like you said.

Thank you kindly for the advice. I'll talk to you later.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 7, 2006

Joseph Heller started his first novel (Catch-22) in 1953. It was published in 1961. His second novel was published in 1974.

No one looks down on Joseph Heller.

Really, how fast you pump 'em out isn't the question. How good they are is the question. Make your book good.

SeanDSchaffer · Feb 7, 2006

Awesome!

James D. Macdonald said:
Joseph Heller started his first novel (Catch-22) in 1953. It was published in 1961. His second novel was published in 1974.

No one looks down on Joseph Heller.

Really, how fast you pump 'em out isn't the question. How good they are is the question. Make your book good.

Uncle Jim, that's exactly what I needed to hear. I appreciate it.

I'll go ahead and ask the agency to withdraw the work from consideration, because it is nowhere near what I want it to be. And I give you and everyone else here my word that I will not submit it again until I personally am satisfied with it.

Nor will I submit any further works until I know that I am pleased with them.

Now I know why the words 'Return to Wyverinia' kept going through my mind. They weren't telling me to write a novel by that title; they were telling me to return to the patience and the perseverance it took to get my original work to the writing quality it possesses today.

I do believe I feel much better, and that I have much to learn and do. I appreciate you, Uncle Jim, for putting up this thread. And I appreciate everyone in the writing community for helping me to realize what I need to do.

You guys have helped me to re-ignite the little pilot light in my boilers. Now they can heat the water within to a good strong boil, providing me plenty of steam with which to propel my writing. I am forever in my fellow writers' debt.

I'll talk to you all later, and I wish you all the best of success.

Sincerely,

Sean D. Schaffer

blacbird · Feb 7, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Joseph Heller started his first novel (Catch-22) in 1953. It was published in 1961. His second novel was published in 1974.

No one looks down on Joseph Heller.

Really, how fast you pump 'em out isn't the question. How good they are is the question. Make your book good.

I agree completely with all of this, as a historical matter, and as good advice. However, it is worth noting that, in Heller's case, that was then, this is now. I doubt any agent or publisher today is willing to wait 13 years between first and second books, unless the first one is as monumentally successful as Heller's first. Yeah, every publisher would defecate blue bullets to get Harper Lee's second novel manuscript, if she had one. But for most of us, the picture is very different.

caw.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 8, 2006

There's a difference between writing for publication and writing for a living. If you're doing it for a living, you absolutely need to have something coming out every year. If you're writing for publication, write when and if you please, just be aware that you'll be getting first-novel advances each time.

popmuze · Feb 8, 2006

Is it time to rewrite?

Uncle Jim,

I've really been stuck on my current work in progress. I've revised it a few times since starting to send it out about a year ago, but I wonder if I've really revised it. At the time I thought I was making major changes, tightening it up and making it more dramatic, etc. These four rejections span about a year, with the last two taking place after the last rewrite a few months ago. They are from agents. The first two were from editors. I'm wondering if just by looking at these rejections, you can give me any feedback about whether to start any further revisions or not.

While I think there is definitely potential for a great story here in the voluptuous, impetuous Gloria & the sickly, neurotic Byron –and of course Murray and his self-centered aspirations—we found ourselves questioning the narrator’s relationship with the two young uprisers. He makes no excuses for his self-serving behavior and there are moments when he actually convinces the reader he cares for these kids and their career. But at the bottom, he’s out for himself. An intriguing character, but I wanted to go deeper into the reasons why he so desperately latched his life onto these two. Also, I wanted to feel the time and place more fully- to really be immersed in the Brooklyn they inhabited. I thought you successfully introduced the historical details, the places and sights, but I wanted the smells, sounds, and tastes as well.

While the manuscript is very eloquent and well written it is often far
too wordy and overly descriptive; this is detrimental because it hurts the
overall tone. The characters themselves are fun to read and seem very real. Despite a very slow start, which should probably be reworked, the plot was engaging and held my interest. The pace of the plot would do well to be more accelerated. I believe the author could benefit from hiring a freelance editor to tighten the story and perhaps make it more concise.

[font=&quot]This is certainly a vivid and well-written[/font] [font=&quot]work, with a strong sense of place and interesting characters (especially Murray). The period detail regarding the music industry seems spot-on (it reminded me a bit of a fictional[/font][font=&quot]Positively Fourth Street[/font][font=&quot]), but unfortunately, though Gloria and Byron are intriguing characters in their own right, the story of their rise and fall from celebrity just didn’t feel truly compelling enough to stand out[/font] [font=&quot]in the market.

[/font]

Thanks for the chance to consider your novel. I read the first 100 pages and found your writing to be stylish, crisp and engaging. You present an original view of music industry shenanigans, which is also appealing. However, the central relationships between Byron, Gloria and Murray seemed to be lacking a bit of drama or oomph to me. Though the characters are well drawn, I didn’t find myself really caring about them as much as I had hoped. Though I don’t think this is quite right for us, I do think the novel is assured and convincing, and I wish you the best of luck in finding a home for it.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 8, 2006

Beware performing rejectomancy.

Here's one thing to try:

Retype the entire manuscript. From hardcopy. You're allowed to make changes as you go. Some bits may not seem worth retyping. Don't retype them. Others will fill you with the need to expand. Expand them.

Meanwhile, start another book.

popmuze · Feb 8, 2006

I remember those days of retyping from hard copy (on the old Smith Corona).

Thinking about doing that now in the era of the word processor, I'm not sure any of it would survive.
I've started another project, but 40-50 pages into it, I just don't have the same emotional investment as I've got with the current one.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 8, 2006

popmuze said:
Thinking about doing that now in the era of the word processor, I'm not sure any of it would survive.

I know one well-published and award-winning author who does exactly that.

I've started another project, but 40-50 pages into it, I just don't have the same emotional investment as I've got with the current one.

You will.

Sailor Kenshin · Feb 8, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Beware performing rejectomancy.

Here's one thing to try:

Retype the entire manuscript. From hardcopy. You're allowed to make changes as you go. Some bits may not seem worth retyping. Don't retype them. Others will fill you with the need to expand. Expand them.

Meanwhile, start another book.

I write that stuff by HAND!

OK, to me it's fun........

SeanDSchaffer · Feb 8, 2006

Writing for a Living

James D. Macdonald said:
There's a difference between writing for publication and writing for a living. If you're doing it for a living, you absolutely need to have something coming out every year. If you're writing for publication, write when and if you please, just be aware that you'll be getting first-novel advances each time.

A quick question, if I may:

I was actually thinking about doing short stories as a way to supplement my work as a novelist. My idea is to do lots of short stories during the times I'm working on my novels, so as to stay on as a constant presence in the industry.

My question: Does this work?

I thank you all in advance for your answers.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 8, 2006

SeanDSchaffer said:
My question: Does this work?

Can't hurt. The trick, as aways, is finding a market for them.

SeanDSchaffer · Feb 8, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Can't hurt. The trick, as aways, is finding a market for them.

Right on.

I do have one more question, if I may. Is there a formula to writing a book a year?

I hope my questions don't bother you too much; it's just I've never really seen myself as able to do a book every year, and I want to learn how to do it. When I was a child, I told myself I would make a living at writing, and I want to keep that promise.

Novels seem to be what I'm best at, although I am also good at writing short short stories. So naturally, I want to find out how best to go about writing a book every year like you recommended.

Thanks.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 8, 2006

SeanDSchaffer said:
I do have one more question, if I may. Is there a formula to writing a book a year?

Yes. Write a page a day.

SeanDSchaffer · Feb 8, 2006

James D. Macdonald said:
Yes. Write a page a day.

That's it? Really?

Well, I don't see why I couldn't do something to that effect. I just always thought I was supposed to do more stuff in a day than one page; that's part of where all the discouragement originally came from.

I assume when you say 'a page a day,' you're talking about more than just throwing a page together? Such as making the page completely right by the end of the day?

I don't think I'll need to take it only one page a day. But I can do something to that effect. Maybe one scene in a day, and make sure the scene is right before the day is over.

At first, I thought what you said was a joke, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

I appreciate it, Uncle Jim. Thank you kindly.

katee · Feb 9, 2006

Sean, I had an a-ha moment about this when I started writing my novel last year. I'd get home from work and make myself write before I did anything else (including feeding my husband!). I'd usually last for 45 minutes. It's less that UJ's recommended 2 hours, but better than nothing, and all I could manage at the time. I'd get through about 2/3rds of a scene each 'session'. I didn't review what I'd written previously, but just kept slogging at it. A few months of doing that I realised I was halfway through the book ... almost by accident

I found the momentum of making myself write, at the same time each day, was a big help.

The way I look at it, the only point of my first draft is to get the whole story down on paper. My second is for polishing -- and so, I'm sure, will be my 4th, 5th, 6th etc. You might not write this way - I know some writers like to make sure they're happy with what they've written before they move on to the next bit - so I guess it's also a matter of figuring out what works for you. Good Luck!

blacbird · Feb 9, 2006

Bird by bird, as Anne Lamott has written.

caw.

DamaNegra · Feb 9, 2006

I try the a page a day method. Even if I only write one page, that's still 365 pages a year. However, I usually wind up writing at least two pages a day. That is 730 pages a year. At 250 words per page (aprox), that's 185,000 words. That means that even before the year is over, I'll have a finished MS ready to be put in a drawer and wait for revisions to come

It's not as hards as it sounds.

Lilybiz · Feb 9, 2006

It's the whole concept of baby steps. If you look at it as writing the whole book, the task seems impossible. If you look at it a page at a time, or bird by bird, you see how it can be done.

Thanks, Uncle Jim.

SeanDSchaffer · Feb 9, 2006

It definitely does sound like a better idea than what I used to believe. With such a baby step method, it not only sounds like an easier job, but also more fun as well as higher quality. If I focus on a page a day as a basic goal, I can re-write the page several times in a day--much like I do with each of my webforum posts--until eventually I have a really well-done work.

It makes a lot more sense to write this way than to not have a goal at all....or to only write when I feel like it.

In fact, last night I worked on a chapter of my present WIP, and just kept it to that chapter. I didn't do anything but the one chapter, and that's it.

I added roughly 1,000 words to the chapter that were not there before. And the writing is much better, as is the story. All because I took a baby step instead of trying to take a football field in one bound.

This is a cool way of doing things. I'm quite happy with it. It makes good sense to me.

Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Duncan J Macdonald

Plotting! Not Plodding!

SeanDSchaffer

Ashling

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

SeanDSchaffer

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

SeanDSchaffer

blacbird

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Sailor Kenshin

I am too on MSN IM! :(

SeanDSchaffer

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

SeanDSchaffer

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

SeanDSchaffer

katee

blacbird

DamaNegra

Mexican on the loose!

Lilybiz

glad to be here

SeanDSchaffer