Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Status
Not open for further replies.

MystiAnne

Registered
Joined
Aug 6, 2005
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Novel rewrite process

I just finished with the first meeting of our new writer's group, formed from students in the program we just finished, and I just wanted to share a helpful exercise, probably all you all know it already, but it's the first time I tried it on a work in progress directly.

Okay, so I have a historical setting, a different culture from mine but a real one that most folks don't know much about, and I've chosen to use a fairly close third person (of course distance varies over the course of a short story and especially over a novel, but most novels that I've read spend a majority of the time at a particular distance if 3rd person) instead of omnisicient POV (well, the prologue is omniscient, as is the first paragraph of chapter 1). But the feel of the novel after a solid second draft just wasn't right--too, something, or not enough something else. I was scared that I *had* to have an omniscient narrator, ala Clan of the Cave Bears, at least at the beginning, but was resisting it because that usually makes the beginning so hard to get through.

So, I took the first two pages, and rewrote them in several different versions, each time with a specific intention in mind. The one that was most successful was simply "make it closer to POV character." I had planned to write versions focussing on character's sense of loss, etc. etc., but hitting this one changed just the first two pages fundamentally, bringing not only the main character closer to the reader but the other chars as well. Probably only 30% of the words changed, and I didn't even do much re-arranging, but writing with that specific intention has made all the difference in the world. I can't wait to get at the other 200 pages over the next few weeks (accidental unemployment for a month! whew!)...

Anyway, I'd been fussing and bothering and fretting over "the voice" of the novel and how much I wanted to play with distance in POV, worrying about making it more "spiritual" or "magical" or shamanistic, and how the dickens to do that (it's a shamanistic culture with a strong record of religious tolerance). But lo, I discovered, nothing fancy was required, I just needed to go back and inspect every sentence, and recast some in the POV character's language, or from her point of view intellectually or emotionally. That will bring up her people's unique characteristics, as well as her own, judging by this first experiment. The best thing about the exercise was how *sure* I felt about making changes--loading the intention into my forebrain gave me the ability to edit in a flow that I usually only experience in first draft...pretty cool stuff.

It shouldn't surprise me, I'm used to doing drafts devoted only to continuity or only to spelling/punctuation, one for awkward sentence construction, one for excess adverbs/repeated words/is there a better noun or verb,

so why NOT a draft for POV? doh. It sounds so simple when I say it now.

If other folks have had similar experiences, please share! The more I write, the more plastic I realize my "darlings" are :)

Mysti
 

RussT

Hi.

Coming to this party late and reading on page 16 of some 180 pages. Thought that I'd read the ending to see if it were a happy one.

Many thanks for your thoughts and information.

Russ

ps: My wife is editing my first novel. So far, we are still friends.
 

J. Y. Moore

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
131
Reaction score
6
Hi Jim,

I just ran across a tidbit by Kathy Ide via Jenna's AbsoluteWrite newsletter: http://www.absolutewrite.com/freelance_writing/Ide/pugs_pointers_102005.htm, wherein Kathy instructs that only one space is used after ending punctuation for any sentence that will be typeset (I hope my paraphrasing is accurate).

Is this strictly something for the typesetter to do or is it something that should be addressed/adhered to by the author? I believe it would be extremely difficult for me to change that kind of habit. A double space seems to come out of my fingers at the end of a sentence.
 

Nangleator

Rep Point Whore
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
408
Reaction score
59
Location
Dracut, Massachusetts
Nothing could be simpler than to use a word processor's Search & Replace function if two spaces is a bad thing. Just search and replace all instances of (space space) with (space).

However, reversing this is a bit more complicated. Replace all (period space) with (period space space) makes an ugly distance in names like Dr. McCoy and Mr. Spock. Also, don't forget exlamation points and question marks. (And ellipses?)

Also, how do you handle the space after the end of a sentence of dialog?

"Where's Waldo?"_There was no reply.

or

"Where's Waldo?"__There was no reply.

No, it's much simpler to type the way you were taught. If they don't like the extra spaces and get cranky about deleting them, I'd be happy to offer my Search & Replace talents for a modest fee. :tongue
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
J. Y. Moore said:
Is this strictly something for the typesetter to do or is it something that should be addressed/adhered to by the author? I believe it would be extremely difficult for me to change that kind of habit. A double space seems to come out of my fingers at the end of a sentence.

The double-space/single space after punctuation mostly separates folks who learned how to type on a typewriter from those who learned how to type on a computer.

If you're submitting to folks who will publish your work electronically (a webzine, say), or folks who will be typesetting directly from your file, you can go ahead and do a global search-and-replace to turn double spaces into single spaces.

Personally, I double-space after periods.

In any case, always follow the publisher's guidelines to the letter.
 

brinkett

Elder Scrolls devotee
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
930
Reaction score
79
J. Y. Moore said:
I believe it would be extremely difficult for me to change that kind of habit. A double space seems to come out of my fingers at the end of a sentence.
You might be surprised. I learned how to type on a typewriter and yes, always put two spaces. A few months ago, because of the number of guidelines that wanted only a single space after a period, I started training myself to put only one space. It didn't really take all that long for it to become my new habit, and you can set Word to flag where you type two spaces so you can see as soon as you do it. I've also found that while I now type only one space when writing, I still type two spaces when doing email and posts. The brain is a wonderful thing...
 

jules

Bored fanatic
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
311
Reaction score
17
Location
Coventry, UK
Yeah, I did it the other way around: I learned to type putting only one space in, but a while ago I started working with a manager who insisted in two spaces in everything I typed. It only took a few weeks to get into the habit.
 

alisonbruce

Registered
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
42
Reaction score
5
Location
Guelph
Website
www.alisonbruce.ca
I hate Courier, but now I know the reason publisher don't...

SRHowen said:
is that it is a mono spaced font--what does that mean? That each letter, number, punctuation, etc., takes up the same amount of space.

They (publishers) need to know how many pages your book is going to take up and they base it on mono spacing.
Shawn

Thank you! I hate Courier. It's ugly and I find it hard to read. I couldn't understand why so many people recommended it. Now that I know that it is not an arbitary style choice, I will use it for submissions regardless of my personal prejudice.
 

Ken Schneider

Absolute sagebrush
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
1,977
Reaction score
414
Location
location,location.
U.J.

I received my first rejection on an M.S I've sent out. They requested the whole M.S. to read from my query. So, I would assume that my query fair enough to garner a read.


What, if anything should I do to the M.S. before I send out for another round?
 

Berry

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
187
Reaction score
30
Location
The Heart of the Groove
Ken Schneider said:
What, if anything should I do to the M.S. before I send out for another round?

Unless the rejection letter pointed out obvious typos or other gaffes, either make sure the returned MS is clean, or print a new one, and send it back out. Do it today.

And start your next one, if you haven't already.
 

Ken Schneider

Absolute sagebrush
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
1,977
Reaction score
414
Location
location,location.
Thanks, Yes, I've finished one more book,(in the drawer) and working on another.

Okay, will double check through it, and send it back out. I have been following the guidelines to the letter, and most say, "No simultaneous subs." So, it's been one at a time.

Thanks.
Ken
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
I've been neglecting my poor little thread for too long.

It's time now to turn back the clock and clear up some unfinished business from Page 105. Yes, it's time to play What's Going On Here?

The passage under discussion goes like this:

I had always been fascinated by the big house of Framling. Perhaps it had begun when I was two years old and Fabian Framling had kidnapped me and kept me there for two weeks. It was a house full of shadows and mystery, I discovered, when I went in search of the peacock-feather fan. In the long corridors, in the gallery, in the silent rooms, the past seemed to be leering at one from all corners, insidiously imposing itself on the present and almost--though never quite--obliterating it.

For as long as I could remember Lady Harriet Framling had reigned supreme over our village. Farm labourers standing respectfully at the side of the road while the carriage, emblazoned with the majestic Framling arms, drove past, touched their forelocks and the women bobbed their deferential curtsies. She was spoken of in hushed whispers as though those who mentioned her feared they might be taking her name in vain; in my youthful mind she ranked with the Queen and was second only to God. It was small wonder that when her son, Fabian, commanded me to be his slave, I--being only six years old at that time--made no protest. It seemed only natural that we humble folk should serve the Big House in any way that was demanded of us.

The Big House--known to the community as "The House" as though those dwellings which the rest of us occupied were something...

Now let's look at it sentence by sentence:

I had always been fascinated by the big house of Framling.
First person narrator. We're in, or the narrator has been in, a place called "Framling," where there's a big house. The narrator finds this fascinating, there's an implication that the readers will too.




Perhaps it had begun when I was two years old and Fabian Framling had kidnapped me and kept me there for two weeks.
We have a character name now: Fabian Framling. (English-speaking world, apparently.) We have action sometime in the past. Kidnapping is fairly dramatic. So in two sentences we have a person in a place with a problem. Good start. Bad point: It's trivial. It's much like saying "I don't know why I'm afraid of dogs. Perhaps it has something to do with my having been mauled by a pit bull when I was two." Yeah, good guess. Probably does.


It was a house full of shadows and mystery, I discovered, when I went in search of the peacock-feather fan.
"Full of shadows and mystery" verges on cliche. But we have the narrator in center here. Perhaps this is characterization, and he's the sort of person who speaks in fluent cliche. (At the moment, we don't know if the character is male or female.) We've also been introduced to an object. Apparently Fabian Framling's big house is the sort of place that could conceivably hold peacock-feather fans. Possible 1920s time-frame? Certainly the fellow Framling is rich: If for no other reason having the town named after him would imply that.




In the long corridors, in the gallery, in the silent rooms, the past seemed to be leering at one from all corners, insidiously imposing itself on the present and almost--though never quite--obliterating it.

By far the longest, most complex sentence so far. I have no idea how "the past" would go about "leering." This is an example of personification; it could easily become pathetic. We're getting more of an idea of the house -- it's the sort of place that has long corridors and a gallery. It's deserted, or nearly so (silent rooms). Was the family once larger? The house may be more than a mere setting. It may approach being a character in the story. So ends the first paragraph.


For as long as I could remember Lady Harriet Framling had reigned supreme over our village.
Okay, the narrator is located in the village of Framling. "Lady" implies England. We're slowing down to deliver backstory.


Farm labourers standing respectfully at the side of the road while the carriage, emblazoned with the majestic Framling arms, drove past, touched their forelocks and the women bobbed their deferential curtsies.
British spelling. Yep, England. Carriage: Not modern, but early 20th century isn't yet out of the question. Are the arms actually "majestic"? That is, are the Framlings royalty? We're in a rural area. More sense of time and place being laid down here.



She was spoken of in hushed whispers as though those who mentioned her feared they might be taking her name in vain; in my youthful mind she ranked with the Queen and was second only to God.
Right -- we're probably 19th century. That's likely Queen Victoria. "Hushed whispers" -- is hammering it home a bit heavily, don't you think? How's a hushed whisper different from a regular whisper? Again, this could be characterization of the narrator. (In first person, narrative is also dialog.) "Taking her name in vain" is a biblical reference; Lady Harriet is more than a civil authority -- she's taken an aspect of God. That's reinforced by the last word of the sentence (the last word is a position of power).


It was small wonder that when her son, Fabian, commanded me to be his slave, I--being only six years old at that time--made no protest.
I thought the kidnapping was when the narrator was two? Is this a different event? We may be looking at a story of an outsider's view of the doings of the rich and powerful. Is "slave" the right word?



It seemed only natural that we humble folk should serve the Big House in any way that was demanded of us.
The house and the family are being equated. "It seemed" implies that the reality was different. Will the story be one of discovering truth?


The Big House--known to the community as "The House" as though those dwellings which the rest of us occupied were something...
Yep, the Big House (now a proper noun at this point, though it wasn't in the first sentence) looks like it's going to be a character in this story. And with this we end the first page of this book. Sure, I'd turn the page right now.
 

MarkButler

Part Time Fool
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
368
Reaction score
181
Location
Wayyyy out in the boonies
Website
www.markbsplace.net
James, I'm really glad your doing all of this.. I plan to spend a lot of time perusing this thread once Nano quiets down.

One thing I noticed on this opening paragraph, are you analyzing only the subject matter and not writing style? For example, there are 3 "had's" in the first 2 sentences which I've heard is not a recommended strategy... and I found the 2nd sentence difficult to follow, I'm not sure why, but the "I discovered" just doesn't flow right somehow for me.. I end up going back and rereading the sentence a couple of times trying to figure out what connects to what.

whats up with the "forelocks" thing? Isn't that on a horse?
 
Last edited:

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
All that the use of "had" means is that the author is using the past perfect tense. That is to say, the author is describing an action completed in the past. Would "I discovered" be clearer if it were written "I discovered [at that time]"?

In a novel, dialog is privileged speech. In a story written in first person, the narration is a form of dialog, and so is also privileged.

I'm not so much concerned with the style as I am with the story. A fast-moving story will take you over some very rough prose. Conversely, no matter how perfect the prose, a slow-moving story won't carry the reader anywhere.

Tugging the forelock as a means of showing deference is very much a human thing (the military salute is a stylized form of this).
 

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
43,746
Reaction score
8,652
Location
Los Angeles
Website
www.amazon.com
I do think Uncle Jim was focusing on the storytelling aspect of writing -- is it good enough for us to turn the page. Style is a subjective thing. Two different writers would write the same scene differently. Then again, storytelling is also subjective (it's an ART, silly). I personally find that passage not very interesting and I won't read on.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
I suspect that the passage quoted comes from a historical romance. With the emphasis on the house, it may even be a gothic romance.

(You know the definition of a gothic, right? Girl gets boy, girl loses boy, girl gets house.)
 

azbikergirl

I really do look like this.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
886
Reaction score
71
Location
not in AZ anymore...
Website
fantasyauthor.blogspot.com
Oh dear, you are Bookish, aren't you? You are a highly intelligent and witty bluestocking, whose beauty is hidden behind spectacles. Your dress sense is eccentric and a little unfashionable, and you consider yourself plain. You have very little use for men, who find your knowledge of Shakespeare, interest in politics and forthright speech formidable. You are undoubtedly well-off. The only reason for your presence in a novel of this kind (which, I might add, you would not dream of reading, although you have occasionally enjoyed the works of Miss Austen), is your mother, who is absolutely determined that you will make a good marriage. Rather than defying her directly, you are quietly subversive, dancing with anyone who asks you, but making no attempt to hide your intellectual interests. The only person who can get past your facade is the man who is witty enough to spar with you, and be amused at your blatant attempts to scare your suitors away. While you will, no doubt, subject him to a gruelling cross-examination to find out whether his respect for your intelligence is real or mere flattery, you may be sure that he is your match, and that you, he AND your mother will all live happily ever after.

Hrmph.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.