Help me come up with something more believable

allenparker · May 17, 2007

to be believable

The mother would have to be the one keeping the father from seeing his daughter.

The majority of fathers would die for their daughter. Quitting the police work wouldn't use any thought processes.

It is believable that the mother would hide the daughter from the father for fear that the criminal element might find their way to the daughter.

There is bunches of stuff to work around the mother and the father tha makes both of them look good or evil, depending on where you are heading if you make the mother the person responsible for the breakup.

just a thought...

Cathy C · May 17, 2007

The mother knows he did this. What caused them to break up was one night their house was broken into by a criminal he had been working to put away and Gracie's (the MC) room was destroyed by the character. This scared the mother, and this is why she told him to stay away

Here's the "not believable" part, IMO. I can understand if it breaks up the family initially. That sort of maternal panic really does happen. But if she sees him putting away the criminals in the press, eventually she's going to realize she overreacted. I really do think you need to beef up the continual nature of the problem. Every type of psychic power has a downfall. Here are a few scenarios that would both make it more believable and that have worked in other series:

1. The psychic is a "touch psychic". Bring the person an item and they relive the event until the person's death--including emotions, actions and fear. It's an ugly sort of psychic talent. The person really doesn't WANT to help, but because they're so tied to each person, they can't NOT continue to help until the criminal is caught.

2. The psychic hears the voices of those who just died, or are about to die. The psychic seldom gets the opportunity to say NO. They're badgered by the recently dead until they help.

3. The psychic is a "premonition" psychic, picking up on flashes of events yet ot happen that can come any time of the day or night. This kind of psychic wouldn't necessarily work with the police except to warn them of something they DIDN'T already know about.

A touch psychic would insulate his family and he probably would refuse to help the police if it would be a danger to them. The psychic who is the "I see dead people" sort can't help being involved, but the family would seldom know about it, so it's not something that would break up the family--and the event with the criminal breaking in probably wouldn't happen.

The premonition psychic would likely never encounter the killer. If he got a sympathetic police chief/sergeant, etc., his involvement would never make the press.

So, I think the believability issue stems from two problems:

A. The Dad has a relationship with the police that puts himself and his family in danger. The type of psychic he is has to be carefully created to make that believable (since psychics working with the police are often on the fringes of believablity anyway.)

B. The threat to the family has to be REAL and CONSTANT enough to warrant the family breaking up. The Dad has to be unwilling to fix the problem AND the Mother has to not have regrets. If it's the only problem they had, it's stretching believability. I think you might need to do a "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of relationship instead. There were already other problems--maybe he drank too much to keep the psychic stuff tamped down? He's sober now, but Mom knows (not the MC, but MOM) that he could go off the deep end again any time. That's not something you discuss with your teenage daughter. Or maybe they only married because she was pregnant. He was exciting, but in day-to-day stuff they didn't really mesh. Etc., etc. Unless part of the book's plot is to get them back together, you just have to make the break-up and continued lack of contact enough that the reader will let it slide. So far, from what I've read, it's not.

Just a few ideas. Good luck with it!

Southern_girl29 · May 17, 2007

Cathy C said:
Here's the "not believable" part, IMO. I can understand if it breaks up the family initially. That sort of maternal panic really does happen. But if she sees him putting away the criminals in the press, eventually she's going to realize she overreacted. I really do think you need to beef up the continual nature of the problem. Every type of psychic power has a downfall. Here are a few scenarios that would both make it more believable and that have worked in other series:

1. The psychic is a "touch psychic". Bring the person an item and they relive the event until the person's death--including emotions, actions and fear. It's an ugly sort of psychic talent. The person really doesn't WANT to help, but because they're so tied to each person, they can't NOT continue to help until the criminal is caught.

2. The psychic hears the voices of those who just died, or are about to die. The psychic seldom gets the opportunity to say NO. They're badgered by the recently dead until they help.

3. The psychic is a "premonition" psychic, picking up on flashes of events yet ot happen that can come any time of the day or night. This kind of psychic wouldn't necessarily work with the police except to warn them of something they DIDN'T already know about.

A touch psychic would insulate his family and he probably would refuse to help the police if it would be a danger to them. The psychic who is the "I see dead people" sort can't help being involved, but the family would seldom know about it, so it's not something that would break up the family--and the event with the criminal breaking in probably wouldn't happen.

The premonition psychic would likely never encounter the killer. If he got a sympathetic police chief/sergeant, etc., his involvement would never make the press.

So, I think the believability issue stems from two problems:

A. The Dad has a relationship with the police that puts himself and his family in danger. The type of psychic he is has to be carefully created to make that believable (since psychics working with the police are often on the fringes of believablity anyway.)

B. The threat to the family has to be REAL and CONSTANT enough to warrant the family breaking up. The Dad has to be unwilling to fix the problem AND the Mother has to not have regrets. If it's the only problem they had, it's stretching believability. I think you might need to do a "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of relationship instead. There were already other problems--maybe he drank too much to keep the psychic stuff tamped down? He's sober now, but Mom knows (not the MC, but MOM) that he could go off the deep end again any time. That's not something you discuss with your teenage daughter. Or maybe they only married because she was pregnant. He was exciting, but in day-to-day stuff they didn't really mesh. Etc., etc. Unless part of the book's plot is to get them back together, you just have to make the break-up and continued lack of contact enough that the reader will let it slide. So far, from what I've read, it's not.

Just a few ideas. Good luck with it!

The father can't hear the voices of the dead, although his daughter can. He is a touch psychic and he also has premonitions. The mom does tell the daughter that they would have probably broken up anyway, because they just didn't get along in day to day life. They do not get back together in this book. I have thought about making this a series (and in fact, my Beta Reader thought it would make a great series) and having the parents get back together in the last book. The first book doesn't even really deal with them getting back together at all, although Gracie has the idea that they might still have feelings for each other deep down.

Southern_girl29 · May 17, 2007

Building off of what someone else said, what if the father does see himself hurting his family. He doesn't have a strong sense of what is going to happen. He doesn't know if he is going to do it himself or if he's going to inadvertently (sp) lead them to danger. He knows something is going to happen. He can tell that, just not exactly what.

So, Gracie starts having these visions and doesn't know how to handle it. Her mother doesn't know what to do either. So, she calls the father. The father is torn between helping his daughter, who he really wants to see and get to know, and the fact that he knows he's going to do something to put them in danger. He comes anyway. He tells Gracie about the premonition that he had, which he had kept from the mother.

The visions Gracie has is of her mother being killed. It turns out that a serial killer is after her. The killer is always one step ahead of them, and they can't figure out why. He kidnaps the mother, and Gracie, her father, and two of her father's students (he works at a university doing research in paranormal psychology) go to find her. At the end of the book, the serial killer is revealed to be a former student of the father's. The killer stabs Gracie, but she is able to fight him off until the police get there. Anyway, with this scenario, the father really did bring a real danger to Gracie and her mother, and they did get hurt.

Would this make it more believable?

JoNightshade · May 17, 2007

Southern_girl29 said:
Building off of what someone else said, what if the father does see himself hurting his family. He doesn't have a strong sense of what is going to happen. He doesn't know if he is going to do it himself or if he's going to inadvertently (sp) lead them to danger. He knows something is going to happen. He can tell that, just not exactly what.

Would this make it more believable?

Okay, I still think it needs to be a bit stronger. I feel like if the dad loves his daughter-- he doesn't know WHAT bad thing is going to happen-- he would want to be there to protect her. I think it would be impossible for a father to contemplate harming his own child, and if he had a vague premonition it would not be enough to compel him to leave. He would probably disregard it, thinking "I love my family, I would never hurt them." If it was that vague, I think the dad would just assume he had gotten something wrong. Or he would wait until something WAS clear. You don't leave your family over a "maybe."

Cathy C · May 17, 2007

What if . . . and this is just a thought, but what if the Dad believes HE is the one that is going to kill the Mom while Gracie is in the room? What if the killer looks really, really similar to the Dad--quite intentionally to throw the police off track. It might not occur to Dad that if he's seeing the murder, he must be the FOURTH person in the room, so it's not him doing it? Gracie would ALSO see her Dad killing her Mom, which panics her and adds tension, and believability.

Southern_girl29 · May 17, 2007

Cathy C said:
What if . . . and this is just a thought, but what if the Dad believes HE is the one that is going to kill the Mom while Gracie is in the room? What if the killer looks really, really similar to the Dad--quite intentionally to throw the police off track. It might not occur to Dad that if he's seeing the murder, he must be the FOURTH person in the room, so it's not him doing it? Gracie would ALSO see her Dad killing her Mom, which panics her and adds tension, and believability.

While I really like this idea, I've set it up where Gracie has to have a little trust in her dad in order to learn how to control her psychic abilities. If I did this, she wouldn't trust him at all. I need that trust to accomplish what I set out to do.

My beta reader gave me two suggestions. He thought that maybe the dad had been in a mental institution for a while, because everyone thought he was crazy because of the visions. The mother would think he was unstable, too, which might give her even more of a reason to keep him away. He also suggested that he doesn't tell Gracie anymore than he already had about why he stayed away for so long, but she realizes he's not a jerk and knows it had to be something more. He said I could write a sequel and answer it in that one. I'm not sure if that will satisfy the reader or not.

Cathy C · May 17, 2007

That's a point. But I submit two thoughts in defense:

1) Leap of faith. Gracie instinctively (psychic senses) knows to trust him, even though Mom doesn't.

2) Gracie can be the one to realize that it's NOT Dad who's the killer. She has a different POV in the premonition and can realize that Dad's in two places in the vision---which confused her at first, thinking she was seeing a mirror in the room or some such.

Still, your friend's way works too. But this would be a nifty trick for the reader to figure out.

Moon Daughter · May 17, 2007

Southern_girl29 said:
While I really like this idea, I've set it up where Gracie has to have a little trust in her dad in order to learn how to control her psychic abilities. If I did this, she wouldn't trust him at all. I need that trust to accomplish what I set out to do.

My beta reader gave me two suggestions. He thought that maybe the dad had been in a mental institution for a while, because everyone thought he was crazy because of the visions. The mother would think he was unstable, too, which might give her even more of a reason to keep him away. He also suggested that he doesn't tell Gracie anymore than he already had about why he stayed away for so long, but she realizes he's not a jerk and knows it had to be something more. He said I could write a sequel and answer it in that one. I'm not sure if that will satisfy the reader or not.

I think making it look like that the dad is insane to other characters is a bad step. If he was "insane" then I doubt the police would work with him. The police would have to think he's legit for them to waste their time on his so-called visions.

Southern_girl29 · May 18, 2007

Moon Daughter said:
I think making it look like that the dad is insane to other characters is a bad step. If he was "insane" then I doubt the police would work with him. The police would have to think he's legit for them to waste their time on his so-called visions.

That's kind of what I was thinking, too. I had been thinking about Cathy's idea all night. I really, really like this idea, but it would change just about everything about my book, and I don't know yet if I'm willing to do that or not.

The father comes to help Gracie with her visions. He doesn't know if she's seeing things that will definately happen or things that could happen if they don't act. He tells her that not all visions are meant to happen, some are just meant to warn people.

When he first comes to their house, he doesn't know who is after Gracie's mom. Gracie has a dream of a girl that has been killed by the same man who is after Gracie's mom. The dead girl tells Gracie her name and tells her to tell her father, that he will know what it means. So, when Gracie wakes up, she tells her father the dead girl's name, and he knows it's a killer he's been tracking for a while, because he knows the girl is one of the man's victims. I really don't want to lose this scene, because it's the first time Gracie has communicated with the dead and it shows, instead of telling, that she's able to do that.

I'm just brainstorming here, really, and I appreciate all the help everyone has given me.

Moon Daughter · May 18, 2007

There are ways to keep your storyline without ripping it into pieces to make it seem more realistic. Don't worry...you'll get it. In the meantime, maybe on separate pieces of paper, you could write the possibilities of where the storyline could go. Maybe you'll end up finding you like another plot better than the one you have prepared now.

janetbellinger · May 18, 2007

Maybe the mother has some reason for hating the police. Perhaps she's a criminal or was mistrated by the police or is a psychic herself and belongs to a psychic association that doesn't believe in helping the police. There could be dozens of reasons why she doesn't want the father to work with the police and I bet SG has shown it quite well in her novel.

Shady Lane said:
Hmm....I'm a little confused why it made the mom so mad that Dad worked with the police. Is she anti-police? Worried he would get hurt?

Why is this job so important to him?

If these questions are answered, I don't see it as a problem.

Southern_girl29 · May 18, 2007

janetbellinger said:
Maybe the mother has some reason for hating the police. Perhaps she's a criminal or was mistrated by the police or is a psychic herself and belongs to a psychic association that doesn't believe in helping the police. There could be dozens of reasons why she doesn't want the father to work with the police and I bet SG has shown it quite well in her novel.

Thanks Janet. The mother is so not anti-police at all. After their house is broken into by one of the criminals the father is trying to bring to justice, the mother is afraid for her safety and her daughter's safety. She realizes it will probably only get worse in the future. So, she tells him it's either working with police and criminals or their family. He chooses working with the police and criminals. He feels he has to do it, that it's the right thing to do.

I'm still brainstorming on this. I'm going to come up with something to help me make it more believable. It might just take me a while.

Southern_girl29 · May 20, 2007

More brainstorming. What do you think about this?

So, the mother tells the father that as long as he is working with the police, he can't see his daughter. He tells her OK and lets her believe that he doesn't want to give up his work. But, that's not the real reason. He's had a vision that he has hurt Gracie. He sees her as a teenager, holding her arm, covered in blood, with himself in front of her. He thinks he's the one bringing danger to her.

When Gracie starts having visions of her mother being hurt, the mother calls the father and tells him the visions are driving Gracie crazy. So, he weighs the decision whether to come or not. He wants to meet his daughter but he's still scared. Of course, the reader will not know all of this, because we're never in his POV. We're always in Gracie's. She doesn't believe his story. She sees that he's not a jerk, not the type of person to stay away simply because his job isn't right for him. She also notices that he avoids being alone with her. When he decides to fly in two of his students to help out, she really notices it.

In the book, I already have a scene where they go to see a victim who matches the description of the ones the serial killer targets. The father balks and tells her she can't go. She tells him that he can't tell her what to do, that he never acted like a father in the first place, and he can't start now. So, he lets her go, but he also tells her they are going out together without anyone else at all so they can talk.

I thought I could have him tell her then about the vision he had. She can tell him she trusts him not to hurt her physically. But, then at the end, when it's revealed the killer used to be a student of the fathers, the father realizes he really did hurt her, just not by his own hand. It explains the reason for the vision and ties that up nicely.

So, what do you think? More believable? Or should I still work on it?

Moon Daughter · May 21, 2007

The big question for me is still why would the mother give the husband that ultamatum? Is that her only option? Telling the father it's the police or them?

Southern_girl29 · May 21, 2007

Moon Daughter said:
The big question for me is still why would the mother give the husband that ultamatum? Is that her only option? Telling the father it's the police or them?

What if the father told the mother about the vision? The only reason she calls him in the first place is because she thinks Gracie is going to drive herself crazy if she doesn't get a handle on the visions, so maybe her worry over Gracie's sanity would allow her to get over the worry about the father's vision.

Moon Daughter · May 21, 2007

Hmm, well if the mother knew about the father's vision that he was going to supposedly kill Gracie, then wouldn't she look for help elsewhere first? Is her sanity more important than her life? If so, explain why in your story.

MattDempsey · May 21, 2007

It did occur to me the other day that one reason for the lack of contact the father has could be an affair the mother had about 9 months before your MC was born.

Perhaps the father is convinced that he isn't the father.

Now, when psychic powers are manifested, imagine the guilt the father feels - it was his daughter after all.

It gives an explanation for the father leaving his wife as well.

MKayHavoc · May 21, 2007

Heres my idea.

How about he doesn't officially work for the cops, but it's kind of his own personal mission. He solves crimes and then let the cops know type thing, maybe he has one perticular contact in the force that trusts him.

How about if his activities had put his wife and child in danger at some point? Maybe a criminal had figured out were he lived and had gone after him? In this case his wife could have told him to leave unless he stops doing it as it is putting them in danger? And he doesn't stop because he feels it's his responsibility to catch these people?

Southern_girl29 · May 21, 2007

MKayHavoc said:
Heres my idea.

How about he doesn't officially work for the cops, but it's kind of his own personal mission. He solves crimes and then let the cops know type thing, maybe he has one perticular contact in the force that trusts him.

How about if his activities had put his wife and child in danger at some point? Maybe a criminal had figured out were he lived and had gone after him? In this case his wife could have told him to leave unless he stops doing it as it is putting them in danger? And he doesn't stop because he feels it's his responsibility to catch these people?

This is basically how I have it set up. He works with the cops, not for them. He doesn't get paid to do it. He's more like a consultant, I guess you could say. One of the criminals figures out he's helping the police and breaks into their house. Gracie's room is destroyed and that makes the mother want him to quit, because she knows the criminals will target the ones the father loves.

How about if the mother and father walk in on the criminal destroying the house? The father gets hurts. The mother tells him she can't deal with the idea of him being hurt or killed or the idea of Gracie being hurt or killed. The father has had the vision of him hurting Gracie, so he agrees to stay away.

JoNightshade · May 21, 2007

Southern_girl29 said:
He sees her as a teenager, holding her arm, covered in blood, with himself in front of her. He thinks he's the one bringing danger to her.

If he knows he doesn't hurt her until she's a teenager, why leave when she is a baby? Wait til she's older and might be able to understand.

Moon Daughter · May 21, 2007

Another concern....even if the father does leave, does Gracie and the mother leave as well? I mean, if the dad is going to leave, the criminal is still going to know where they live if they don't move. If it really is a criminal trying to get back at the father, I'm sure they would hurt the family as well.

Two: If the mom and dad do split and the mom tries to contact him when Gracie starts basically losing her insanity, how is she going to find him? Do they keep in touch? (which, to me, wouldn't be a great idea since if someone really was trying to get back at him, they could easily figure out where his loved ones are) What if mom and Gracie move away and father stays at the house? That way, when the mother does contact him, maybe she just knows that he's still there?

I don't know...just a thought.

Southern_girl29 · May 21, 2007

Moon Daughter said:
Another concern....even if the father does leave, does Gracie and the mother leave as well? I mean, if the dad is going to leave, the criminal is still going to know where they live if they don't move. If it really is a criminal trying to get back at the father, I'm sure they would hurt the family as well.

Two: If the mom and dad do split and the mom tries to contact him when Gracie starts basically losing her insanity, how is she going to find him? Do they keep in touch? (which, to me, wouldn't be a great idea since if someone really was trying to get back at him, they could easily figure out where his loved ones are) What if mom and Gracie move away and father stays at the house? That way, when the mother does contact him, maybe she just knows that he's still there?

I don't know...just a thought.

For your first point, I had it where the father and the mother stayed in contact because he paid child support to her. They've stayed in touch, but not over the phone. She has sent him letters about Gracie over the years along with pictures.

On your second point, that is already covered. The mother and father met when he was in Tennessee helping with a police case. They fell in love, quickly, and the mother moved to Florida to be with him. When they split up, she moved back to Tennessee, and he stayed in Florida.

Thank you for helping me brainstorm. It's much appreciated.

aliajohnson · May 21, 2007

I like the idea of the father having a mental er. . ."break." Too many dark cases and he starts feeling like they're becoming part of him. He no longer knows himself, trusts himself. Maybe he's too late in saving someone? His marriage is falling apart, someone he's trying (did?) put away breaks into their home. It piles up and he cracks under the pressure (cripes, who wouldn't?). So when the mom says, "no more," he thinks "yeah, that's for the best. I'm a danger to myself and others" and leaves. No insane asylum necessary. Just a long (maybe longer than intended) journey to someplace where he can screw his head back on and learn how to better manage his "gifts." If he had a long and mostly sucessful relationship with a PD prior to this, they'd still work with him when he got back.

Just an idea.

Southern_girl29 · May 22, 2007

I'm still brainstorming on this. I'm kind of stuck on the idea of the father having a vision where he sees that he will hurt Gracie, and that's why he stays away. So, what about this?

Instead of just coming home to a house that's been destroyed by the criminal, maybe the dad sees a vision of what is happening at the house, and they rush home. In the process, he's hurt, probably shot. She tells him while he's in the hospital that he has to give it up, that she can't stand the thought of him being hurt again or killed and doesn't want to bring that down on Gracie. He argues with her about it, but eventually agrees.

She goes home for a while to be with Gracie, and when she comes back the next day, he tells her he can't give it up, that he has to keep doing it. He doesn't give a reason why, except to say that it is a calling and a gift from God that he can't give up. While she has been gone, he has the vision of Gracie being hurt. He sees blood and Gracie's name and in the background hears someone saying, "It's your fault, Jack (that's his name). You're the one who did it to her. You're the one who hurt Gracie." Or something like that.

So, the mother leaves, terribly hurt by his decision and the fact that he can't/won't tell her why he changed his mind. By the time he decides to take his chances with the vision, he feels it's too late, that Gracie's life is set, and he would be intruding.

So, when Sarah (the mother) calls him, the one thing he wants more than anything is to meet his daughter. He decides again to take the risk of hurting her as the vision says he will just to have the opportunity to see her.

When he comes to Tennessee to see Gracie and help her, he just tells her he was young and stupid and really believed in what he was doing. She can tell that he isn't a big enough jerk to do that without a good enough reason, so she really doesn't believe. It will come out near the end of the book when Gracie and Jack go out to dinner together to get to know each other after a huge argument between the two of them.

What do you think?

Help me come up with something more believable

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