Originally posted by
James D. Macdonald, 04-18-2006, 02:10 AM.
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Line By Line, Part 1:
Message Board Citizens- Rebuttal !
Just to be clear, what you're supposed to be rebutting is that The Poets Literary Agency (like the rest of The Literary Agency Group) is a scam, a fake agency that has never sold anything in its life.
Dear Message Board Citizens;
Whatever that means. Have you actually read what's been posted here? Would you like to try to refute it?
Please take a few minutes to read an important message for writers.
Important Message to Writers: Money flows
toward the author.
The company has asked me to tell you, in my own words, what I do and to let you know just one aspect of what they do to help writers sell their work.
Weirdly, your words sound
almost exactly like Sherry Fine's words and Georgina Orr's words. Right the way down to the weird formatting.
You signed your post here "Rey Best," but the document's properties show it was written by "Ray Kyle." Are you
sure they're your own words?
I work with Sherry Fine, our director of acquisitions, and I am using her login for speed and efficiency with this post.
Really? Where is she physically located? Where are you physically located? Is it true that your supposed New York address is a sham?
One cavet, I am in phone sales, so if there are grammar or spelling errors in the post, please realize that you are the writer, and that's your job to write 100% correctly, not mine.
So, what have you sold?
See attached Message Board Citizens Rebuttal.
Cordially,
Rey Best
Oh, I will, "Rey," or "Ray" or whatever your name is.
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Line By Line, Part 2:
Dear Message Board Citizens:
Hi, R/o/b/e/r/t/ G/e/o/r/g/i/n/a/ S/h/e/r/r/y/ R/a/y/ Rey!
My job is to constantly expand the company's relationship of buyers.
A meaningless sentence if there ever was one. What exactly do you do? And who, exactly, are those buyers? A buyer is someone who buys things, right? Who's bought a literary work from you? Could you name one? Just one?
As you know buyers in large companies change jobs and titles on a regular basis.
Buyers? Is the word you're searching for "editors"?
I've found that about 25%, that's ¼ of the names that you can find in Writers Market, or various public sources are INCORRECT.
So? What agent uses Writer's Market or other public sources as their primary means of finding markets?
So, my job is to live on the phone and email.
Nice job if you can get it.
I am paid to call buyers for our authors and for our database of contacts.
How much are you paid? Wait! I know who you are! You're the guy who answered this ad:
Research Assistant For Agent Needed - Generate Publisher Lists
posted: 20 Feb 2006
Offered by:
The Literary Agency Group
Salary:
$17.50 per hour
Benefits:
Flexible hours
Duration:
Project or Part Time Basis
Location:
Any City USA - Internet
Requirements:
Seeking research assistant for our literary agents. Job entails generating lists of 5-10 potential publishers for authors we represent. $500 Bonus for successful sale that comes from your research. You can work from anywhere and we will train.
About Our
Company:
The Literary Agency Group is proud to represent the largest group of formally edited manuscripts in the world.
Contact:
Robert West - Principal
E-mail:
[email protected]
Phone:
Email only please
Special
Instructions:
Email your background and resume please.
Job #
2154
That ad was dated 20 February. You wrote your little "rebuttal" on the 17th of April, and posted it the same day. So you've been working with "Sherry" (where did you say she's located?) for a month and a half at most, and on that basis you're so certain this nest of scammers aren't scammers? Dude, they're scamming you, too.
Basically what I do is take a manuscript and a potential list of 30 buyers, and get on the phone and qualify the list.
That is to say, you call 'em on the phone to make sure their names are spelled right. Where does that list of 30 buyers come from?
I call, I make sure that we have the right buyer's name, I check spelling and address, and most importantly, I confirm what they are 'Looking For Now'.
This is just so pathetic. What are they 'looking for now'? Either they'll name the genre, or say something like "A work that surprises and delights." To get more specific, you'll have to stop cold-calling.
When I find a qualified buyer with a need, I immediately communicate that to the Agents, and they aggressively go into our roster of authors to find matches for the buyer.
Wait a minute! I thought you were starting with a specific work in hand. Which is it?
Our materials are very well received by our buyers.
Name one who's bought anything from you, or any of your "agents," ever.
Our buyers have learned that we posess one of the most qualified groups of authors in the industry.
Which industry would that be? Soybean farming? If you mean the publishing industry, why are your authors still unpublished?
You want to know who the most qualified group of authors in the publishing industry is? Go to a bookstore and look around.
They know that all of our authors have been formally critiqued and edited.
If you knew anything about the publishing industry you'd know why that sentence means nothing at all.
Our buyers know that they can trust what we send them.
Oh, they can
trust it. They just can't
publish it.
Our buyers know that we have filtered out the hobbyists from the authors that will do what it takes to succeed.
In other words, you've filtered out the people who know better than to pay fees to agents. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Editors aren't interested in who's a "hobbyist" and who isn't. They're interested in who's written a good book. That's what they care about. That's not what you're peddling, though. Which rather explains your lack of sales.
Yes, we tell our authors that they have to reach industry standards.
Which you do by accepting everything, then charging piles of back-door fees.
Do you know what editors call slush that's been edited before submission? They call it "slush."
Doesn't every agency do that in one way or another?
Other agencies (you know, the successful ones; the ones who sell books to publishers who can get books onto bookshelves) recognize that if a book can be made publishable by editing that the editors at a publishing house are standing by to do it, and that if a book can't be made publishable by editing that no amount of editing will make it publishable.
The other agencies don't accept everyone then send them on a round of paid edits and paid critiques where the money all comes back to Robert "Convicted Conman" Fletcher's pockets.
I can tell you from personal experience how frustrating it is to hear from a buyer that the work we are trying to sell isn't as good a the competing works they are looking at.
Oh, I quite believe that editors tell you that the works you're peddling aren't as good as the ones that other agencies are submitting. That's because edited slush is still slush, and the only writing talent you're looking for among your clients is talent writing checks.
So, if anything, our agency is becoming MORE demanding that our authors take their work as far as they can from a quality perspective.
You've added another couple of rounds of paid-edits-and-critiques? What's the matter? Afraid some of your writers are bailing out while they still have money in the bank?
So, I hope that I have helped you see one aspect of an Agents job.
Dude, you have no clue what an agent's job is.
The company spends a lot of money paying me to do nothing but find buyers and qualify them.
Are you trying to say that the "agents" at your agency don't know any editors personally?
So, what have you, or anyone, sold? Where's that money coming from? It's coming from the authors, right? It sure isn't coming from the publishers.
And when I read this ongoing thread with all these bad words, written by people that have only sour grapes to say, I just wanted to let you know that "it isn’t so".
You picked the shortest thread. You should read some of the longer ones. The single biggest complaint that anyone has, the single biggest question anyone asks, is this: What have you sold?
What "sour grapes"? You sound just like Georgina Orr/ Robert Fletcher / Sherry Fine.
If you're going to make it in the literary world you have to pay attention to what words mean.
Also, I can assure you that this company isn't a scam.
Really? What have they sold, ever, to anyone? How much does the typical client pay? Where does The Poets Literary Agency's money come from? Are you aware that there is essentially no paying market for poetry?
I've known the principals for years and they do the best they can for their authors.
Have you really? And who, exactly, are you?
The "best they can" doesn't seem to be very good.
They also pay their bills on a regular basis and they are beginning to acquire other companies in the industry.
Where's the money for that coming from? It sure isn't from book sales to publishers.
Here's a question… if a literary agency buys a publishing company so that they can publish or partner books they believe in, is that a conflict of interest?
Here's an answer: Yes.
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I can tell you right now that the company is participating in a new business model. We're promoting a joint venture where we have put up $2500 in partnership with the author and the publisher to get the book out the door.
That isn't a new business model at all. "Co-publishing" or "joint-venture" publishing has a long and sour history. Those are fancy names for vanity publishing. Let me list some names that you might have heard of: Commonwealth Publishing. Northwest Publishing. Sovereign Publications. If those names don't mean anything to you I suggest you find out.
No, it isn't. And Dorothy Deering did four years in federal prison. She got off lightly. James Van Treese got thirty years.
And that's how much we believe in what we are doing.
You'll forgive me I'm sure if I think that the $2500 you're talking about will be all out of the author's pocket.
The ad is in the PMA newsletter and has been for 4 months.
A copy of the ad can be seen using this link.
http://www.theliteraryagencygroup.com/pma-literaryagencyad.pdf
This really is important for you to think about.
I've thought about it all that I care to: y'all are so incompetent that you can't even find a vanity press. Would it help if I gave you C. Lee Nunn's phone number? Those "three of these in early deal stages" seem to be the same "three" that you've had in early deal stages for a year now. When are you actually going to have a deal?
We think that we are the ONLY LITERARY AGENCY that has stepped up to put our own money behind certain authors that we represent.
Think about this: Why might that be true? Why don't the other literary agencies (you know, the ones who manage to sell books) consider paying kickbacks? And as far as it being your "own money," isn't it true that it's the authors' money? Isn't it true that you expect the authors to make the payments? "$2500 in partnership with the author" is how you put it.
If you can find any other agency that has done this please let me know.
The Deering Literary Agency.
This, to me, is brilliant, out of the box thinking that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that our company is behind our authors.
This, to me, shouts "Scam!" at the top of its lungs.
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Furthermore, all this talk about who owns what is rubbish.
Robert M. Fletcher, a convicted conman, owns all of the agencies in The Literary Agency Group, and he owns Writers Literary & Publishing Services, the critique-and-editing service that he sends hopeful writers to. Hardly "rubbish."
This is business, and it's a lot like a Darwinian evolution.
And you are like the unfortunate fatal mutation.
You either grow or prosper, or you go out of business and you die.
Since you've proven totally unable to sell books to publishers, why aren't you out of business?
If we can sell your work, we do.
Therefore it follows you can't sell your authors' works. Perhaps because you're the worst salesmen on the planet. Perhaps because your methods just plain don't work. Perhaps because you aren't actually submitting stuff.
If we can't, then we will tell you why we think it isn't selling.
"Because you haven't sent us enough money yet!"
Usually this means more work, and really, that's what most of the whining on these boards is about.
Thanks to y/o/u/r/ Sherry's other posts, I know what you mean by this. You're wrong.
There isn't any whining on these boards except from you and Robert and Sherry and Georgina: Those mean ol' author advocates say you shouldn't pay us! Wah! They say we've never sold anything! Wah! They say we're a bunch of scammers! Wah! Wah! Wahhhhhh!
So, in conclusion, the company is real, they've paid me a regular salary for years, and we're putting our heart and soul (and our money) behind our authors.
For years? Or since February 20, 2006 (assuming you called them the same day their ad appeared and they hired you on the spot).
For all your heart and soul and money, why haven't you managed to sell anything?
Well, that's all the time I have for this post.
Next time try to present a couple of checkable facts. Starting with your real name.
Best to you and your writing career.
Best to you and yours. I hear you get a lot of writing time in the federal pen. (Or you might luck out; Daniel Craig Deering just got probation.)
I don't have the time to monitor this post so unfortunately; all the carping that will occur will be ignored.
Aw, gee, and you just said that you "read this ongoing thread with all these bad words, written by people that have only sour grapes to say."
I'm not worried; you'll be back, or some other name will be back. You and "Sherry" and "Georgina" (and Peter and Paul) just can't stay away. Will the next round be more sockpuppets? Or some other fictitious name claiming to be an employee of Robert's? Do you know why I think you'll be back? Because the truth is hurting Robert Fletcher's business too badly to let him stay away. That's why he sends these limp defenders.
Do you want to know who won't ignore the "carping"? The potential victims of The Literary Agency Group. They're getting the word and passing it on to their friends. So whether or not some amateur troll returns to read this (and you are reading it, I know you by now), the real people who need to get the word are definitely reading this post, and all the others. They're weighing truth against lies, and you, my friend, come up short.
I have a real job to get back to.
Oh, don't hurry on my account. You've wasted your time so far (years, you say?) without getting a single sale. The few minutes it would take to read the replies to your drivel won't take that much out of your day.
Have you considered getting an honest job?
So, is your name really "Rey Best"? Who's the Ray Kyle who wrote the document you posted?
