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Thread: [Packager] Alloy Entertainment (Les Morgenstein)

  1. #51
    Something clever here BethanyCM's Avatar
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    Has anyone heard back on a full from them?
    Bethany C. Morrow
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  2. #52
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin J. Anne Bradshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BethanyCM View Post
    Has anyone heard back on a full from them?
    I'm still waiting. It's been nineteen days, but I'm going to give it a full month before I start worrying. I'll keep you updated.

    -Anne
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  3. #53
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    It's important to realise that packagers work differently to publishers.

    I don't know for sure how Alloy works, but in my experience (I was a commissioning editor at a non-fiction packager for a few years, and have been involved with several packagers and packaged projects), authors who write for packagers don't get paid an advance and royalties: they get paid a flat fee, and that's that. In return for that fee they sign away all rights to the work to the packager, in perpetuity.

    That means that if a packager signs you up to write a series which you created, you could find yourself thrown off the project and other writers writing books in that series under your name.

    There was a famous case a while back where a writer built up a successful series of books and was then replaced by other cheaper writers. If I remember rightly she wasn't allowed to publish books under her own name as she'd signed that away when she signed up to the packager. I'm sure it's been discussed here.

    This might not be the case for Alloy: I don't know. But you do need to understand this, and check out how they work, before you sign up to anything.

  4. #54
    Something clever here BethanyCM's Avatar
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    Of course. Alloy's Collaborative Initiative is (described as being) something new to their famous packaging legacy, so we'll see what that means.
    Bethany C. Morrow
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  5. #55
    Banned for Spamming profen4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    It's important to realise that packagers work differently to publishers.

    I don't know for sure how Alloy works, but in my experience (I was a commissioning editor at a non-fiction packager for a few years, and have been involved with several packagers and packaged projects), authors who write for packagers don't get paid an advance and royalties: they get paid a flat fee, and that's that. In return for that fee they sign away all rights to the work to the packager, in perpetuity.

    That means that if a packager signs you up to write a series which you created, you could find yourself thrown off the project and other writers writing books in that series under your name.

    There was a famous case a while back where a writer built up a successful series of books and was then replaced by other cheaper writers. If I remember rightly she wasn't allowed to publish books under her own name as she'd signed that away when she signed up to the packager. I'm sure it's been discussed here.

    This might not be the case for Alloy: I don't know. But you do need to understand this, and check out how they work, before you sign up to anything.

    I wonder if that was VAMPIRE DIARIES which was a work-for-hire project given to LJ Smith from Harper Collins and then she was let go and replaced by other writers.

  6. #56
    Something clever here BethanyCM's Avatar
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    That did happen to her, to my knowledge. If you sell ownership of your intellectual property, it's a good possibility.
    Bethany C. Morrow
    author of MEM: A novel (Unnamed Press, May 2018)
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  7. #57
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    I think that could be the one, Profen: than you.

    And Bethany, that's exactly my point: most packagers do require you to grant them all rights, including the copyright, of the works you produce for them, which is why I've counselled caution in this thread.

  8. #58
    Something clever here BethanyCM's Avatar
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    At this point, none of us knows what this particular initiative requires or how/whether it differs from their packaging business but in every event - whether with packager or publisher or anyone else - writers should always exercise caution. Thanks for the reminder. I'd hope that anyone subbing to them would know something about the company.
    Bethany C. Morrow
    author of MEM: A novel (Unnamed Press, May 2018)
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  9. #59
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin J. Anne Bradshaw's Avatar
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    These have been my main concerns while waiting for them to get back to me. If my novel were a standalone piece that would be one thing, but since it's merely the first in a trilogy, I'm a little worried. That being said, I'm not even sure if anyone at Alloy likes my book yet, so I suppose I'll have to wait and see. My father works with contracts for a living (though they deal mostly with cell phones), so I'm hoping he can help be decipher some of the more technical language. From what I've read so far, The Collaborative seeks to work with the author to improve their novel (sort of acting as an editor), and then together they decide the steps for publication. Their rights deals also seem to differ from those of their packaging service. Again, we'll have to wait and see. I'll keep you all updated.
    Burning Embers--YA, currently querying/revising

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  10. #60
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Anne Bradshaw View Post
    These have been my main concerns while waiting for them to get back to me. If my novel were a standalone piece that would be one thing, but since it's merely the first in a trilogy, I'm a little worried. That being said, I'm not even sure if anyone at Alloy likes my book yet, so I suppose I'll have to wait and see. My father works with contracts for a living (though they deal mostly with cell phones), so I'm hoping he can help be decipher some of the more technical language.
    Please don't rely on your father to check a publishing contract for you. He might be very experienced with the contracts he works with but unless he's worked in publishing he won't have the faintest idea what makes a contract good or bad.

    From what I've read so far, The Collaborative seeks to work with the author to improve their novel (sort of acting as an editor), and then together they decide the steps for publication. Their rights deals also seem to differ from those of their packaging service. Again, we'll have to wait and see. I'll keep you all updated.
    Be careful. Please.

  11. #61
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin J. Anne Bradshaw's Avatar
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    Old Hack,

    Of course I'm not going to rely solely on my father, I'll also consult someone with experience in publishing. And I will definitely be careful, I've worked very hard on my book and don't want to lose the rights to it. Thank you for your concern!

    -Anne
    Burning Embers--YA, currently querying/revising

    Dying Embers--YA, in progress

    Embers Fading--YA, outlining

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  12. #62
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin J. Anne Bradshaw's Avatar
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    Wanted to post some additional information for anyone interested. I looked inside both of the books that Alloy mentions on their website as being a result of the Collaborative ("How to Love" by Katie Cotugno and "The Art of Disappearing" by Elena Perez). On the copyright page, it states that copyright is held by both the author and Alloy Entertainment. So, if someone does publish with them, they are giving up some ownership, but not forfeiting completely, so at least they won't be booted from the project. I'll keep you updated as I hear more.
    Burning Embers--YA, currently querying/revising

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  13. #63
    Something clever here BethanyCM's Avatar
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    Ann!e Stone, formerly of Harlequ!nTeen, tweeted that she's moved to Alloy as YA editor (and more) earlier this month. She said there's some lag time for requested material as she takes over responsibilities, just fyi.
    Bethany C. Morrow
    author of MEM: A novel (Unnamed Press, May 2018)
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  14. #64
    the wicked wit of the west IdrisG's Avatar
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    According to Mediabistro, Alloy Entertainment has opened up a digital imprint by the same name specializing in teen, new adult, and commercial fiction. They're already set to release three new titles.

    Thought that might be of interest to some looking to submit to them. I'm not sure if that's related to their Collaborative in any way.
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  15. #65
    I got it covered Undercover's Avatar
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    I nudged several times. On the first few times I heard back saying they will get back to me, never did. I'm wondering if it was because of the editor change.

    I submitted about a year ago, or longer. Maybe I'll just re-submit and see what happens? I don't know yet.

  16. #66
    Something clever here BethanyCM's Avatar
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    Undercover, was it the initial query? Might be a good idea to resend it. I've sent them three queries and heard back each time, even on the two that weren't requests.
    Bethany C. Morrow
    author of MEM: A novel (Unnamed Press, May 2018)
    Rep'd by Victoria Marini, IGLA
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  17. #67
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin J. Anne Bradshaw's Avatar
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    Wanted to post an update. I sent my initial query to the Collaborative on April 2nd, and received a full request on April 7th. About a month after the editor change, I nudged Annie Stone (the new YA editor), and heard back the next morning (August 20, 2014). My manuscript, unfortunately, was not what they were looking for, but Ms. Stone did note that if the novel undergoes some revisions, I am welcome to resubmit at any time. I'm going to try my luck elsewhere first, but Alloy has been very courteous to me through this whole process, so I'll definitely keep them in mind.
    Burning Embers--YA, currently querying/revising

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  18. #68
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    I was thinking of submitting to this agency, but reading through this thread has me a little worried. Is Alloy Entertainment a legit literary agency or should I steer clear?

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by da1natster View Post
    I was thinking of submitting to this agency, but reading through this thread has me a little worried. Is Alloy Entertainment a legit literary agency or should I steer clear?
    Alloy is a book packager, not a literary agency. They come up with a concept that they think will appeal to publishers, then find a writer to put their concept on the page. Different packagers have different terms--sometimes you write for a flat fee, sometimes you don't keep the copyright, etc.--but essentially, you're lending your pen (or keyboard) to the packager's story. Then they turn around and sell the manuscript to a big publisher (and, in Alloy's case, exploit the dramatic rights, since they're also a TV studio).

    Many of the franchises that appear in books and on TV were developed by a packager--Alloy owns The Vampire Diaries and Pretty Little Liars, for example--and they can be a good way to get a toe into the industry or expand your brand, especially if you're more into the wordsmithing than the crafting of plots and characters. I haven't had any direct dealings with Alloy or any other packager, but I wouldn't be opposed to working with one in the future.
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  20. #70
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin J. Anne Bradshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da1natster View Post
    I was thinking of submitting to this agency, but reading through this thread has me a little worried. Is Alloy Entertainment a legit literary agency or should I steer clear?
    The person above me is correct about how Alloy works in general, but I just wanted to note that The Collaborative (which is what I submitted to) works a little differently. If they accept your manuscript, they will assign a team of editors to work with you to improve upon it, and if the book eventually goes to publication, you will share copyright with Alloy. To my knowledge, authors who are brought on by The Collaborative receive a small advance, and then continue to share in profits down the road. Alloy is a book packager, yes, but The Collaborative is a different project that isn't really connected to that.
    Burning Embers--YA, currently querying/revising

    Dying Embers--YA, in progress

    Embers Fading--YA, outlining

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  21. #71
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Hm... is that an unusual thing for agencies to do? I'm thinking I'll probably pass on them..

  22. #72
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin J. Anne Bradshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da1natster View Post
    Hm... is that an unusual thing for agencies to do? I'm thinking I'll probably pass on them..
    It is fairly unusual, but they're not a literary agency in the traditional sense of the word, either. I can only speak to the dealings I've had with them personally, and they were very courteous and gave me helpful feedback even when they decided to pass. It all depends on what kind of experience and process you're looking for, but I certainly don't think it would hurt to submit to them if you wanted to.
    Burning Embers--YA, currently querying/revising

    Dying Embers--YA, in progress

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  23. #73
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    FYI: Address failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by triceretops View Post
    Here's the response I got from them on FB:

    Hi Chris,
    Alloy Entertainment commented on their Wall post.
    Alloy Entertainment wrote: "We are currently having technical difficulties with that email address. In the meantime, you can send your submissions to kmcgee@alloyentertainment.com."
    This email now gets a
    Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently
    and bounces fairly quickly, in about a minute's time.

    But I didn't get failure notices for the two addresses off the Alloy website... not a minute later at least. I wrote them almost twenty minutes ago. 8)
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  24. #74
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    The aforementioned digital imprint is Alloy Entertainment Ė Powered by Amazon, described thusly:
    If you have a self-published manuscript and are looking for a hybrid publishing experience, this program is right for you! In addition to AEís creative and marketing expertise, this digital-first imprint has exclusive distribution through Amazonís Kindle Store and support from Amazonís targeted marketing reach.
    ICAO
    ---------

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  25. #75
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin Anjulee's Avatar
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    Alloy Entertainment

    Has anyone heard of or dealt with them?

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