Should Apes have Human Rights?

Bird of Prey · Mar 31, 2007

Should apes have human rights?

By Tom Geoghegan
BBC News Magazine

Apes and humans have common ancestors but should they have the same rights? An international movement to give them "personhood" is gathering pace.
What would Aristotle make of it? More than 2,000 years after the Greek philosopher declared Mother Nature had made all animals for the sake of man, there are moves to put the relationship on a more equal footing.
Judges in Austria are considering whether a British woman, Paula Stibbe, should become legal guardian of a chimpanzee called Hiasl which was abducted from its family tribe in West Africa 25 years ago.
The animal sanctuary where he has lived is about to close and to stop him being sold to a zoo, Ms Stibbe hopes that she can persuade the court he deserves the same protection as a child.

APES AND US
Gorillas, bonobos, orang-utans and chimps are great apes
Chimpanzees and bonobos differ from humans by only 1% of DNA and could accept a blood transfusion or a kidney
All great apes recognise themselves in a mirror
Elephants and dolphins show similar self-awareness
Great apes can learn and use human languages through signs or symbols but lack the vocal anatomy to master speech
Great apes have displayed love, fear, anxiety and jealousy
In 1997 the UK government banned experiments on great apes but not on primates such as marmosets and macaques

Sources: Ian Redmond, Charlotte Uhlenbroek

Chimps genetically close to humans

Spanish MPs are also being urged to back a similar principle, one already endorsed by the Balearic parliament and held dear by the international organisation The Great Ape Project - that apes be granted the right to life, freedom and protection from torture. So should apes such as those at London Zoo, which opens its Gorilla Kingdom on Thursday complete with gym and climbing wall, get the same rights as their zookeepers? . . . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6505691.stm

brokenfingers · Mar 31, 2007

Bird of Prey said:
Should apes have human rights?
I say yes. Absolutely.

Hmmm... maybe you should read a couple of articles detailing how they've gone crazy and became violent after awhile in captivity and attacked people with no provocation.

An ape is still an animal and ruled by its primal instincts. It's not capable of reasoning.

And how is her keeping it captive in her home different or better from captive with trained handlers?

Also, I find it kinda funny how people are so enthused to grant money, time and energy to apes yet there's no doubt a real live human being who can use the time, money and resources not far from them.

Just my thoughts.

tiny · Mar 31, 2007

Protecting them against cruelty has little to do with granting them rights, in my opinion.

wordmonkey · Mar 31, 2007

As resident forum primate, I am hurt by this.

Get your hands off me you damned dirty human.

BottomlessCup · Mar 31, 2007

Freedom from torture, yes. All animals should be protected from cruelty.

I don't agree with the "life and freedom" part. It's impractical and I don't see how you could grant that freedom to apes and not to other animals.

tiny · Mar 31, 2007

You just can't go giving them the rights of humans. They aren't humans. They are amazing creatures who should be protected against people who would take advantage or destroy, but granting them "rights" as a person is just not possible.

Perks · Mar 31, 2007

If it has been determined that they are self-aware to the point we can assume that captivity is a great mental strain on them, then I have no problem with following that logical course.

As for adopting a chimpanzee, that's very dangerous. They can rip limbs from sockets if they're so disposed. It's not about rights in that case, it's about training and know-how.

Perks · Mar 31, 2007

Well, if one moves in next door to me, my property values are sure to go down.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 31, 2007

Should apes have human rights?

No.

TsukiRyoko · Mar 31, 2007

"Today an ape was charged with armed robbery, after being caught exitting a convenient store with a loaded .9 mm glock in one hand and a bag full of money in the other, as you can clearly see in the video footage. More at five-back to you, Jim."

Kentuk · Mar 31, 2007

Yeah, give them voting rights and driving licenses. Let them take out loans and start business. Draft them into the military and promise them college educations.

Apes should have Ape rights which is more then they have now.

tiny · Mar 31, 2007

Bird of Prey said:
Why not?

Because they aren't people. They shouldn't be abused, or killed, or tormented. But they also shouldn't be allowed to roam the streets, vote, buy a home. I mean come on, giving an animal rights as a human? It's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. They should be protected from humans, but not elevated (or lowered, your choice) to human status.

Haggis · Mar 31, 2007

We could elect them to congress. It might help things out.

Sohia Rose · Mar 31, 2007

Clearly they can't have human rights, but ape rights (as dog and cat rights) might be something to consider. I mean, how would they be represented by their peers in determining what's fit for them? Care to elaborate?

xhouseboy · Apr 1, 2007

Bird of Prey said:
So should apes such as those at London Zoo, which opens its Gorilla Kingdom on Thursday complete with gym and climbing wall, get the same rights as their zookeepers? . . . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6505691.stm

I say yes. Absolutely.

So do I.

Just so long as they're also willing to obey the rules of the society that confers these rights on them. It could work, but we'd first have to sit down and hammer out the finer details with the gorilla delegates.

aadams73 · Apr 1, 2007

We let George Bush(both of them) become president, and he's a Buttmonkey. Of course they're not nearly as bright as apes.

xhouseboy · Apr 1, 2007

Bird of Prey said:
You do realize that a gorilla has been able to speak in sign language?

Likewise chimps?

But would they all be willing to attend sign language classes? A fair few of them would probably start bunking off to hang around malls. The cops have got enough to do without rounding up delinquent gorillas and taking them back to school.

tourdeforce · Apr 1, 2007

I think we should train apes to be household servants and to perform simple tasks.

For hygiene and modesty, we could outfit them all in red jumpsuits.

Sohia Rose · Apr 1, 2007

Bird of Prey said:
You do realize that a gorilla has been able to speak in sign language?

Likewise chimps?

You do realize that some of that behavior is "mimicking," and not actually reasoning.

And I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't feel safe with a ape in the house around my cat.

robeiae · Apr 1, 2007

tourdeforce said:
I think we should train apes to be household servants and to perform simple tasks.

For hygiene and modesty, we could outfit them all in red jumpsuits.

They could choose their own names by opening a dictionary to a random page and pointing to a word.

I like it. It seems win-win.

aruna · Apr 1, 2007

Oh. What a pity. I thought this was an April Fool thread.

davids · Apr 1, 2007

brokenfingers said:
Hmmm... maybe you should read a couple of articles detailing how they've gone crazy and became violent after awhile in captivity and attacked people with no provocation.

An ape is still an animal and ruled by its primal instincts. It's not capable of reasoning.

And how is her keeping it captive in her home different or better from captive with trained handlers?

Also, I find it kinda funny how people are so enthused to grant money, time and energy to apes yet there's no doubt a real live human being who can use the time, money and resources not far from them.

Just my thoughts.

Agree with the last paragraph-attacking people with no provocation-how similar we are!

Perks · Apr 1, 2007

I'd argue that saddling them with "human rights" (rights always hand-in-hand with responsibilities and all) and subjecting them to years of "training" so that they can communicate with us is supremely arrogant. They quite obviously would have very little to do with us if left to their own devices.

This extreme is swerving into just a tad bit mental.

William Haskins · Apr 1, 2007

we should do everything we can to provide a generous and sustainable habitat so that they can follow their normal course of existence.

anything beyond that opens the pandora's box of planet of the apes.

tourdeforce · Apr 1, 2007

Should humans have ape rights?

Like the strongest, toughest guy gets to bang all the chicks in the group?

Should Apes have Human Rights?

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