Doctor Who (may contain SPOILERS for current episodes)

nahalwi

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I'm probably a bit weird here in that I actually would rather have a doctor of color before having any discussion about a female doctor. Let alone that we have the whole vast planet with all these cultures and history and the Doctor sticks with the UK.

I still don't have faith in Moffet this season. I really really like Bill so far, but all the interviews sound like they're going with the same old tropes. aka 'she starts off this way and then the world just expands for her and she somehow-magically becomes awesome and there's a whole fate-of-the-universe reason she's there'.
 

RedRajah

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Tonight's episode "Smile"...*sigh*

For the 1st 3/4ths, I was okay with it. But the last quarter left a bad taste in my mouth. It wasn't "Kill The Moon" bad at least, but one of Moffat's favorite crutches was in effect even if he didn't write the episode.

Bill, however, continues to be cool, so at least there's that.
 

DavidBrett

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I'm probably a bit weird here in that I actually would rather have a doctor of color before having any discussion about a female doctor. Let alone that we have the whole vast planet with all these cultures and history and the Doctor sticks with the UK.

I still don't have faith in Moffet this season. I really really like Bill so far, but all the interviews sound like they're going with the same old tropes. aka 'she starts off this way and then the world just expands for her and she somehow-magically becomes awesome and there's a whole fate-of-the-universe reason she's there'.

Not at all, in fact I've said it countless times - I want diversity in the Doctor, but NOT forced for the sake of ticking boxes to appease those that are fighting about it for the sake of saying "Look how special and aware of social issues I am!" It needs to be organic and develop naturally, otherwise it's just going to come across as forced, upsetting the real fan community and - knowing how fickle they can be - annoying the very same bleeding hearts that campaigned for it because "they didn't do it right" when they pressured the show into having no other choice. I mean, look how well "Ghostbusters" turned out...
 

ManInBlack

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Tonight's episode "Smile"...*sigh*

For the 1st 3/4ths, I was okay with it. But the last quarter left a bad taste in my mouth. It wasn't "Kill The Moon" bad at least, but one of Moffat's favorite crutches was in effect even if he didn't write the episode.

Bill, however, continues to be cool, so at least there's that.

There were quite a few of Moffat's fingerprints here. I also found myself wondering if this planet was connected to Terra Alpha.
 

Helix

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Not at all, in fact I've said it countless times - I want diversity in the Doctor, but NOT forced for the sake of ticking boxes to appease those that are fighting about it for the sake of saying "Look how special and aware of social issues I am!" It needs to be organic and develop naturally, otherwise it's just going to come across as forced, upsetting the real fan community and - knowing how fickle they can be - annoying the very same bleeding hearts that campaigned for it because "they didn't do it right" when they pressured the show into having no other choice. I mean, look how well "Ghostbusters" turned out...

Sounds like any changes from a white bloke would be considered 'ticking boxes'.
 

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From all the rumours I'm hearing (although they are just rumours) it seems like a lot of people think the next doctor will be Kris Marshall. Who is basically another Matt Smith. Slightly unusual looking skinny white boy.
 

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I'd really like them to not go with Kris Marshall. Nothing against him, but in a universe where a time lord can regenerate as anything, it seems disconcerting to me that for 13 times, The Doctor has been a white man.

I'm a huge fan of the show with a forearm-covering tardis tattoo and I very much enjoy Peter Capaldi's portrayal of The Doctor and how he's developed the character to be less grumpy but still very alien. It shows a considerable talent for milking a lot of characterization just out of how he says his lines. However, I'd love it if they did something adventurous with the casting of The Doctor. He explores all of time and space, why not explore race and sex as well?
 

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Are there any good POC/female sci-fi writers (ideally who can adapt to television) you'd want to see as candidates for showrunners?
 

AW Admin

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Are there any good POC/female sci-fi writers (ideally who can adapt to television) you'd want to see as candidates for showrunners?

Melinda Snodgrass, Jane Espenson, Nora K. Jemison
 

Brechin Frost

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I love Jane Espenson. Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Gilmore Girls, Battlestar Galactica, Dollhouse, Torchwood: Miracle Day, Once Upon A Time.... That list of credits really shows she'd be a very capable head writer, touching on everything from fantasy and sci-fi to the dramatic/melodramatic...

The only issue being that she's American and it's for the BBC. They're unlikely to hire an American showrunner.

But she's a marvelous writer and I'd absolutely love to see her write an episode.
 

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I'd really like them to not go with Kris Marshall. Nothing against him, but in a universe where a time lord can regenerate as anything, it seems disconcerting to me that for 13 times, The Doctor has been a white man.
Agree 100%.
 

DavidBrett

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Sounds like any changes from a white bloke would be considered 'ticking boxes'.

And it sounds like YOU are just trying to cause an argument where there isn't one, but instead jumped at the first chance to take a cheap shot rather than consider what I said. Funny that...

If you'd paid attention to anything I said you'd see that I'm an advocate for change, just as long as it's not a forced, hamfisted attempt. For example, the same people crying out for a female Doctor are also coming up with a dozen or more theories as to why Missy ISN'T the Master. Why? Because they don't like her character, don't like the Master being female, that she's all 'wrong', you name it... yet they continue to insist that they'd be happy with a female Doctor when (yes, "when" not "if". It will happen, sooner or later) they get one, when by their own actions they're proving they'll never be satisfied because they want change on THEIR terms, not in a way that naturally compliments the show - they want control, not change, and that's just never going to work out for the best.

Personally, I love Missy and think the Master's regeneration/resurrection into a female suited the character perfectly for a couple reasons which - since you obviously need everything spelled out for you to remove ammo for your petty sniping - are these:

1) The Master is crazy, always has been, always will be. Sure, s/he can be cold, cunning and calculating on the surface, but deep down they're irreversibly insane and always looking for ways to outsmart the Doctor. Yet when two Time Lords meet they can both sense they're the same species (from "The Sound of Drums," though there has been much evidence that this isn't always 100% true, as the Doctor has failed to recognise other Time Lords in the past, or they him, whilst at other times he's told them apart from the very beginning), so naturally the Master would switch genders at some point to confuse his nemesis, to not make his identity so easily deduced next time they met. Hence why Twelve couldn't immediately tell Missy was Gallifreyan, let alone the Master.

2) It's said that a Time Lord can regenerate into the other gender through either extreme focus (The Corsair could apparently do it easily, according to Eleven) or due to a traumatic death (The General regenerated back into a woman when the Doctor shot her to save Clara, but seeing as how the Time Lords had only recently survived the harrowing Time War in her timeline, it makes sense that whatever she experienced during it brought upon the regeneration into a man. Also, when she did stand up, the guards were only slightly taken aback by her gender, meaning it's not that uncommon or unheard of). Now, if you ask me, having your entire body and life torn apart by space-time itself AS you're being attacked by a time-locked-insane Rassilon would be traumatising for anyone, even someone as mad as the Master. So, he wakes up to find he's now a she, and her immediate reaction is how she can really mess the Doctor now.

3) Moffat, bad as he can be at times, took an ENTIRE SEASON building up the mystery of Missy and who she was whilst at the same time laying out clues that - when you look back at it (she's able to pluck people from time, any time, moments from their death, and is making them into an army of Cybermen, etc) - scream the words "Master Plan". This made her entire character, her entire purpose and reason for being female organic and natural to the story, and not just thrown in without a thought. He knew Time Lords could switch genders, had even hinted to it in past seasons, yet worked up to the revelation in a way that made for one of the best twists in the show's last couple years - heck, since "You Are Not Alone", in my opinion!

So, if that much attention, care, detail and thought can be put into the female-regeneration of the Doctor's oldest nemesis, surely his own eventual gender-transition deserves it even more so? I really REALLY want to see it happen, but I don't want to see something so monumental executed so cheaply. The same goes for regenerating into another ethnicity (again, something the General's recent regeneration proved possible). All I'm saying is that the majority of people campaigning for the change just want to see it happen ASAP without actually caring how or why it will finally happen. But if proper consideration and respect isn't put into it, it's just going to backfire terribly.

But please, find something else in this reply to bicker about, since that's what it "sounds like" you enjoy doing...

I'd really like them to not go with Kris Marshall. Nothing against him, but in a universe where a time lord can regenerate as anything, it seems disconcerting to me that for 13 times, The Doctor has been a white man.

Same here. Kris is a good actor, able to balance comedy and drama, but if anything I couldn't see him able to portray the Doctor in any other way than a lankier Smith. Something does need to change, and I only hope Chibnall and Capaldi come together to find what the show's been missing all this time.

On a side note, did you know that Time Lords can apparently change their physical appearance in terms of species when they regenerate, and that the main reason the Doctor regenerates into distinctly humanoid counterparts is because he spends all his lives around Earthlings? Theoretically, there's no law against a Time Lord regenerating with the physical features of a Silurian, or a Catkind but, prosthetic costs aside, I can't see that ever happening to the Doctor - at least not on the main TV show.
 
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mccardey

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And it sounds like YOU are just trying to cause an argument where there isn't one, but instead jumped at the first chance to take a cheap shot rather than consider what I said. Funny that...

If you'd paid attention to anything I said you'd see that I'm an advocate for change, just as long as it's not a forced, hamfisted attempt. For example, the same people crying out for a female Doctor are also coming up with a dozen or more theories as to why Missy ISN'T the Master. Why? Because they don't like her character, don't like the Master being female, that she's all 'wrong', you name it... yet they continue to insist that they'd be happy with a female Doctor when (yes, "when" not "if". It will happen, sooner or later) they get one, when by their own actions they're proving they'll never be satisfied because they want change on THEIR terms, not in a way that naturally compliments the show - they want control, not change, and that's just never going to work out for the best.

Personally, I love Missy and think the Master's regeneration/resurrection into a female suited the character perfectly for a couple reasons which - since you obviously need everything spelled out for you to remove ammo for your petty sniping - are these:

1) The Master is crazy, always has been, always will be. Sure, s/he can be cold, cunning and calculating on the surface, but deep down they're irreversibly insane and always looking for ways to outsmart the Doctor. Yet when two Time Lords meet they can both sense they're the same species (from "The Sound of Drums," though there has been much evidence that this isn't always 100% true, as the Doctor has failed to recognise other Time Lords in the past, or they him, whilst at other times he's told them apart from the very beginning), so naturally the Master would switch genders at some point to confuse his nemesis, to not make his identity so easily deduced next time they met. Hence why Twelve couldn't immediately tell Missy was Gallifreyan, let alone the Master.

2) It's said that a Time Lord can regenerate into the other gender through either extreme focus (The Corsair could apparently do it easily, according to Eleven) or due to a traumatic death (The General regenerated back into a woman when the Doctor shot her to save Clara, but seeing as how the Time Lords had only recently survived the harrowing Time War in her timeline, it makes sense that whatever she experienced during it brought upon the regeneration into a man. Also, when she did stand up, the guards were only slightly taken aback by her gender, meaning it's not that uncommon or unheard of). Now, if you ask me, having your entire body and life torn apart by space-time itself AS you're being attacked by a time-locked-insane Rassilon would be traumatising for anyone, even someone as mad as the Master. So, he wakes up to find he's now a she, and her immediate reaction is how she can really mess the Doctor now.

3) Moffat, bad as he can be at times, took an ENTIRE SEASON building up the mystery of Missy and who she was whilst at the same time laying out clues that - when you look back at it (she's able to pluck people from time, any time, moments from their death, and is making them into an army of Cybermen, etc) - scream the words "Master Plan". This made her entire character, her entire purpose and reason for being female organic and natural to the story, and not just thrown in without a thought. He knew Time Lords could switch genders, had even hinted to it in past seasons, yet worked up to the revelation in a way that made for one of the best twists in the show's last couple years - heck, since "You Are Not Alone", in my opinion!

So, if that much attention, care, detail and thought can be put into the female-regeneration of the Doctor's oldest nemesis, surely his own eventual gender-transition deserves it even more so? I really REALLY want to see it happen, but I don't want to see something so monumental executed so cheaply. The same goes for regenerating into another ethnicity (again, something the General's recent regeneration proved possible). All I'm saying is that the majority of people campaigning for the change just want to see it happen ASAP without actually caring how or why it will finally happen. But if proper consideration and respect isn't put into it, it's just going to backfire terribly.

But please, find something else in this reply to bicker about, since that's what it "sounds like" you enjoy doing...
:popcorn:

Love it when the Whovians whove...

:)
 

Helix

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And it sounds like YOU are just trying to cause an argument where there isn't one, but instead jumped at the first chance to take a cheap shot rather than consider what I said. Funny that...

If you'd paid attention to anything I said you'd see that I'm an advocate for change, just as long as it's not a forced, hamfisted attempt. For example, the same people crying out for a female Doctor are also coming up with a dozen or more theories as to why Missy ISN'T the Master. Why? Because they don't like her character, don't like the Master being female, that she's all 'wrong', you name it... yet they continue to insist that they'd be happy with a female Doctor when (yes, "when" not "if". It will happen, sooner or later) they get one, when by their own actions they're proving they'll never be satisfied because they want change on THEIR terms, not in a way that naturally compliments the show - they want control, not change, and that's just never going to work out for the best.

Personally, I love Missy and think the Master's regeneration/resurrection into a female suited the character perfectly for a couple reasons which - since you obviously need everything spelled out for you to remove ammo for your petty sniping - are these:

1) The Master is crazy, always has been, always will be. Sure, s/he can be cold, cunning and calculating on the surface, but deep down they're irreversibly insane and always looking for ways to outsmart the Doctor. Yet when two Time Lords meet they can both sense they're the same species (from "The Sound of Drums," though there has been much evidence that this isn't always 100% true, as the Doctor has failed to recognise other Time Lords in the past, or they him, whilst at other times he's told them apart from the very beginning), so naturally the Master would switch genders at some point to confuse his nemesis, to not make his identity so easily deduced next time they met. Hence why Twelve couldn't immediately tell Missy was Gallifreyan, let alone the Master.

2) It's said that a Time Lord can regenerate into the other gender through either extreme focus (The Corsair could apparently do it easily, according to Eleven) or due to a traumatic death (The General regenerated back into a woman when the Doctor shot her to save Clara, but seeing as how the Time Lords had only recently survived the harrowing Time War in her timeline, it makes sense that whatever she experienced during it brought upon the regeneration into a man. Also, when she did stand up, the guards were only slightly taken aback by her gender, meaning it's not that uncommon or unheard of). Now, if you ask me, having your entire body and life torn apart by space-time itself AS you're being attacked by a time-locked-insane Rassilon would be traumatising for anyone, even someone as mad as the Master. So, he wakes up to find he's now a she, and her immediate reaction is how she can really mess the Doctor now.

3) Moffat, bad as he can be at times, took an ENTIRE SEASON building up the mystery of Missy and who she was whilst at the same time laying out clues that - when you look back at it (she's able to pluck people from time, any time, moments from their death, and is making them into an army of Cybermen, etc) - scream the words "Master Plan". This made her entire character, her entire purpose and reason for being female organic and natural to the story, and not just thrown in without a thought. He knew Time Lords could switch genders, had even hinted to it in past seasons, yet worked up to the revelation in a way that made for one of the best twists in the show's last couple years - heck, since "You Are Not Alone", in my opinion!

So, if that much attention, care, detail and thought can be put into the female-regeneration of the Doctor's oldest nemesis, surely his own eventual gender-transition deserves it even more so? I really REALLY want to see it happen, but I don't want to see something so monumental executed so cheaply. The same goes for regenerating into another ethnicity (again, something the General's recent regeneration proved possible). All I'm saying is that the majority of people campaigning for the change just want to see it happen ASAP without actually caring how or why it will finally happen. But if proper consideration and respect isn't put into it, it's just going to backfire terribly.

But please, find something else in this reply to bicker about, since that's what it "sounds like" you enjoy doing...



Same here. Kris is a good actor, able to balance comedy and drama, but if anything I couldn't see him able to portray the Doctor in any other way than a lankier Smith. Something does need to change, and I only hope Chibnall and Capaldi come together to find what the show's been missing all this time.

On a side note, did you know that Time Lords can apparently change their physical appearance in terms of species when they regenerate, and that the main reason the Doctor regenerates into distinctly humanoid counterparts is because he spends all his lives around Earthlings? Theoretically, there's no law against a Time Lord regenerating with the physical features of a Silurian, or a Catkind but, prosthetic costs aside, I can't see that ever happening to the Doctor - at least not on the main TV show.

It's as if Romana never existed.
 

mccardey

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Romana who?

:roll: (see what I did there? See? See what I did? :roll:)


:ROFL:
 

DavidBrett

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It's as if Romana never existed.

I'm currently working my way through all the classic seasons of Who, about to start on the Second Doctor. Romana was a companion of the third or fourth Doctor, right? So you'll have to expand upon your pitiful little shot (which, by the way, show's your true nature if that's all you have to say after I went out of my way to give full reasons and explanations behind my original statement) if you expect it to mean much at all...
 

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Romana was a companion of the fourth Doctor (Tom Baker). She first appeared in Season 16 (had to look that up).

Only last week I watched Destiny of the Daleks, which is the adventure in which Romana regenerates into Ward.
 

EMaree

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"Smile" was a weird experience. It was so dark, the final third felt entirely disconnected to the first two halfs -- you have all these wonderful skilled humans working hard, being murdered horribly, but it's conveniently bad for the new group to respond with violence because they're conveniently all dicks to suit the plot (and the child does nothing of relevance apart from tug heartstrings).

They tried to play it off as an optimistic ending, a new civilisation. But all of the most skilled humans are dead. And the smartest people on earth were apparently too daft to turn it off and on again.

I'm currently working my way through all the classic seasons of Who, about to start on the Second Doctor. Romana was a companion of the third or fourth Doctor, right? So you'll have to expand upon your pitiful little shot (which, by the way, show's your true nature if that's all you have to say after I went out of my way to give full reasons and explanations behind my original statement) if you expect it to mean much at all...

It was a perfectly valid and succinct response, not a "pitiful little shot". There is no need to be rude just because you haven't caught up to the series with Romana yet.

If you're trying to make a point about female timelords, of course people are going to mention the Time Lady herself. Romana set the ground rules for female timelords, she's very relevant to the conversation.
 
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DavidBrett

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... My point wasn't against female Time Lords, though. I know all about the Rani, plus the possibility that the silent woman beside Rassilon when the Master is tricked into letting them through could be the Doctor's mother.

Nowhere in my explanation did I say female Time Lords/Ladies were impossible. I wasn't even arguing that male Time Lords couldn't regenerate into female, but that there's numerous examples of them doing so - I was giving reasons why the Doctor could become female, not that he couldn't. So why is mentioning female Time Lords relevant again? What did mentioning Romana accomplish? I'm confused... has she ever regenerated into a male?

And sorry if I'm coming across rude when - to me - Helix was being rude to me by insinuating I'm one of those people that don't want a more diverse Doctor, apparently glossing over both my posts advocating the matter, only to jump at the first chance to put me down.
 

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Please, please, please say they're getting a BAME woman to write the episode script at least. I want to see authentic voices boosted!
 

DavidBrett

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That's ALSO a prime concern of mine regarding the possibility of the Doctor regenerating into another race or gender... something that monumental deserves a delicate touch, which Moffat doesn't really specialise in. Yes, I love how Missy came about, but that was built for shock and the twist, not for a deeply personal reason. But I guess we'll see.

But the episode in question is, I believe, tomorrow's one, set in Victorian London (or thereabouts). And with Bill being black...

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017...race-and-racism-in-series-10-episode-thin-ice