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Thread: [Agency] PD Scott Shelton (Pamela Shelton)

  1. #1
    Julie Worth
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    [Agency] PD Scott Shelton (Pamela Shelton)

    Anyone have any experience with Pamela Shelton? She has a new agency: PD Scott Shelton, located in Missouri. On Firstwriter, she says she has seven clients, one previously published. I havenít been able to find anything else on her.

  2. #2
    phia2
    Guest

    Re: PD Scott Shelton?

    I've have spoken to her and have had several emails
    with her regarding my manuscript- she has been very
    responsive, very friendly and very professional in our correspondence-that's about all I can tell you for now

  3. #3
    come on guys
    Guest

    Anyone heard of Pamela Scott Shelton literary agent?

    Anyone heard of this lady before? She was added to Firstwriter.com as a new agency. There doesnt appear to be a website when I googled. Firstwriter also threw up Ag Partners who went bust after a few months leaving a lot of sorry authors who thought they'd found an agent.

  4. #4
    phia2
    Guest

    Re: Anyone heard of Pamela Scott Shelton literary agent?

    yes I've spoken to her- she has been very professional,
    friendly and responsive- replied quickly to me after reviewing the first few chapters of my manuscript- so far I have only good things to report back on my dealings with her

  5. #5
    vstrauss
    Guest

    Re: Anyone heard of Pamela Scott Shelton literary agent?

    Writer Beware has gotten questions about this agent, but I've been unable to find out anything about her. If you submit, be sure to ask what her professional background is. To be effective as an agent, a person needs to have actually worked in publishing, either for a publisher or with a reputable agency. People who come to agenting from non-publishing-related fields rarely manage to make a go of it.

    Firstwriter.com (like most online agent listings) is a very unreliable resource. They list many marginal and scam agencies. It looks to me as if they don't vet the people they include at all.

    - Victoria

  6. #6
    Pscott7996
    Guest

    Pamela Scott Shelton, Literary Agent

    For the fourth try here. Good evening authors, my name is Pamela Scott Shelton, and I am a literary agent.

    Several of my authors have mentioned that my name has appeared on this forum, and I want to thank everyone for their kind remarks in support of me. I am confident that soon my work will speak for itself.

    Each day I speak to publishers, who receive me well, and are very interested in what I have to bring them. I am fortunate in that I have a group of authors who are creative, original - somewhat eccentric, but in a really fun way - and who are willing to work as hard as I do toward achieving what are now our intertwined goals.

    I think the questions posed in this forum, are good questions. These are questions that each author who has signed with me has discussed with me at length. I encourage these questions, and I am glad that this forum exists so that you can exchange the good, and the bad. For each of you, I would hope that your experiences are more good than bad.

    Keep those words and ideas flowing, authors. You make this business the happening that it is!

    Again, thank you to each person who has responded kindly on my behalf. I look forward to a successful year in representing each of you in your work.

  7. #7
    come on guys
    Guest

    Re: Pamela Scott Shelton, Literary Agent

    No offence intended good lady, there's a positive feedback about you on the firstwriter site too. I just got curious as this website has thrown up a lot of unreliable agencies so far.

  8. #8
    Kate Nepveu
    Guest

    Re: Pamela Scott Shelton, Literary Agent

    I think the questions posed in this forum, are good questions. These are questions that each author who has signed with me has discussed with me at length. I encourage these questions, and I am glad that this forum exists so that you can exchange the good, and the bad. For each of you, I would hope that your experiences are more good than bad.
    Then would you care to share the answers to these questions here? Specifically, your experience in the field?

  9. #9
    phia2
    Guest

    Re: Pamela Scott Shelton, Literary Agent

    as I said in my earlier response, when I had my first
    phone discussion with her (which was lengthy) Pam
    did review with me the Publishers she had and is currently
    working with on behalf of her authors. Again all I can add
    is my experience with her has been positive and encouraging.

  10. #10
    aka eraser
    Guest

    Re: Pamela Scott Shelton, Literary Agent

    Hmmm....

  11. #11
    Kate Nepveu
    Guest

    Re: Pamela Scott Shelton, Literary Agent

    phia2, I didn't see you mention prior publishing experience or current deals in your prior response--was that in this thread? At any rate, as Ms. Shelton (Ms. Scott Shelton? I'm not sure if that's a double last name or not) is here now, I'm sure she would be happy to talk about that herself.

  12. #12
    phia2
    Guest

    Re: Pamela Scott Shelton, Literary Agent

    I agree

    I am an author- unpublished as of yet

    The first thread was did anyone have any experience with
    her- I was only adding my dealings in hope that it was
    informational and might add insight

  13. #13
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Pamela Scott Shelton

    Hi everyone, did any of you sign with Pamela? I'm about to send her a manuscript, she seems very nice and helpful. I'm pretty far away so wont be in a position to visit her.

  14. #14
    Ruled by Dachshunds smallthunder's Avatar
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    Question for Pamela

    Quote Originally Posted by Pscott7996
    For the fourth try here. Good evening authors, my name is Pamela Scott Shelton, and I am a literary agent.
    Hi, Pamela --

    First of all, I enjoyed reading your post.

    It sounds like you've had some computer problems while trying to post here, but I hope you're still reading this thread and can somehow manage to log back on to answer the question directed at you -- i.e. How did you come to work as a literary agent?

    Did you work as an editor or publisher before setting up shop?

    Thanking you in advance --
    "'Reeling and Writhing, of course, to begin with,' the Mock Turtle replied; 'and then the different branches of arithmetic -- Ambition, Distraction, Uglification, and Derision.'

  15. #15
    practical experience, FTW J. Y. Moore's Avatar
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    Question

    Since all of this is from February, I guess she's not interested. On the other hand, she isn't listed in AAR, Writer's Market, P&E, etc.

    Dead issue?

  16. #16
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Yes it appears to be a dead issue, when I Googled the other day it led me here so I guess I have my answer.

  17. #17
    practical experience, FTW Tilly's Avatar
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    From page 1. If you spot a mistake, let me know

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela Scott Shelton 06-17-2006
    Dear Authors,

    As much as I personally dislike Bill, I have to agree with him about disgruntled authors turning that disgruntledness into an "authors beware" thing. I read many potentially good manuscripts each month, and the problem with most of them is that they lack the professional editing that makes the difference between a ready to market product, and one that the major NY publishers won't even consider. Publishing eidtors are no longer people who "work with" authors, as they might have years ago. Today's editors are decision makers about what to buy, and what to pass on. They're busy people, and they look for the highest quality of work to buy. Trust me, there is a lot of quality out there too.

    The problem that Bill has is making a referral to a company at all. I absolutely recommend professional publishing to authors, but refrain from making suggestions as to companies or individuals who perform the service. As a literary agent, I no longer take work that is not "industry standard." That's because my efforts in that work are not allowed to be compensated, and after having an author in a foreign country take off with a book that I was responsible for editing, for which I have no recourse, I simply do not do it anymore. But I do now require a professional level of editing because the major publishers expect it, therefore, I recommend that an author with a good story - who has no other resource for editing his work - consider professional editors. I just do not make referrals. That's where Bill is biting the bullet, and I agree that it puts him in a bad light to do so. I think anyone in this business should know that.

    But he's got a point with disgruntled authors. And I won't be shy about stating my opinion about people who prey on that disgruntledness by doing author beware lists. While I think it's necessary to share information about disreputable agents and the like, I think there are, too, predators on the other side of the spectrum. Predators who have created a cottage industry for themselves marketing lists of less than favored agents, and sell them for incredible rates to authors. I was shocked when I recently saw the web site of a man who referred to himself as a "literary watchdog," to investigate and protect authors from disreputable agents.

    The man, who lives in NY, called me to get information about me. I later looked at his site and was shocked to see at the "products" he offers authors who only are desperate to get an agent, and who would trust him more because he promotes himself as a literary watchdog. No author should ever pay for that kind of information, or any other products found on those web sites.

    The rules are simple - if an agent asks for money before a publisher signs a contract for the book, skip that agent, keep looking. It doesn't get any easier than that.

    Now, the reason I am here is because there have been remarks made about me on this web site by disgruntled authors, whom I do not know, and do not represent, but have cost me business with authors I do represent. I have never asked for money to copy or mail manuscripts, and I have worked hard, giving up a lot to market manuscripts on behalf of the authors I represent.

    The feedback about me, apparently, because I cannot find it on this site, is that I "might" work full-time, and only agent part-time, thus, do not read manuscripts as quickly as authors like, nor represent my contracted clients as aggressively as I should. The fact is, I subbed as a teacher to be able to conduct my business as a literary agent and pay the costs of doing business and the costs of living. While I am a new agent, just a year and a half into the business, I plan to stick it out.

    I have learned much about publishing and writers and writing in my short time as an agent, and that is that the publishing industry is experiencing nearly a 50% return on books that they publish. So, there's your challenge authors, look at what you're writing, and you'll see why I and Bill and other agents are telling you to go pro on the editing, because the publishing industry is trying to turn itself around, and they're not taking work that costs them a bundle to get to the market anymore. If books are going to be returned, the publishers are going to do everything they can to mitigate the impact on their bottom lines - they're going for the top quality.

    Also, let's talk about what publishers are taking. Look at the surveys out there on who is buying books these days; that will answer an awful lot about why many of you are not published and spend so much of your time on sites like this. It's a difficult time for publishers and authors, and, yes, agents too, but it's not impossible. The business depends on writers, you bet, but you have to be smart about the final product. And you have to be willing to admit that your work, that story that you gave birth to, might not be the prettiest baby in the nursery; and be willing to revise, revise, revise.

    For those among you writers who are interested, I now work 3 days a week, Friday, Sat & Sun, and spend the remainder of the week on my literary agent. The three days a week keeps me in health insurance and income to pay my daily living expenses. I also make money ghost writing - and I do not represent anyone that I have ghosted, nor do I advertise for that business, but accept projects only when writers are referred to me by close associates. Thus, I spend more than full-time marketing my author's works, on both coasts.

    So, in the finale here, Bill, you dope, stop making referrals to companies that edit - KEEP REFERRING POTENTIALLY GOOD WORK THAT NEEDS PROFESSIONAL EDITING TO BE EDITED - I can't emphasize that enough. By the way, there are an awful lot of published authors out there - whether they fess up to it or not, who live by freelance editors. Do some research, there are many who admit it too.

    That's my rant.

    Pamela Scott Shelton
    Literary Agent
    PScott558@msn.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria Strauss 06-17-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    Publishing eidtors are no longer people who "work with" authors, as they might have years ago.

    It's certainly true that few editors today do the sort of intensive editing that certain editors of old had the leisure to perform. Manuscripts need to be basically publication-ready. (And if anyone thinks this is completely different from "the way it used to be," think again. We've all heard the stories about Thomas Wolfe and Maxwell Perkins, but that was the exception even then). But it's false to say (as people who aren't familiar with the publishing industry often do), that editors no longer work with authors. They most definitely do work with authors. I don't know a single professional writer whose editor doesn't edit.

    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    But I do now require a professional level of editing because the major publishers expect it, therefore, I recommend that an author with a good story - who has no other resource for editing his work - consider professional editors.
    Recommending editing is something that shouldn't be done lightly. Not every manuscript will benefit, and even the best editing (and there are many, many unqualified editors out there) won't necessarily get a ms. closer to publication. For the author, it's an expensive gamble, and an ethical agent should keep that in mind before making the recommendation.

    Hopefully, also, you don't tell those authors that using a freelance editor will make a publishing house editor more likely to look at their work--because it won't. Publishing house editors want manuscripts that are finished and polished, but they are perfectly happy if the author can accomplish this on her own. In fact, mentioning to a publisher that a ms. has been "professionally" edited may work against you--there are so many unqualified editors and dishonest editing referral schemes around that the publisher may assume you have been duped.
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    While I think it's necessary to share information about disreputable agents and the like, I think there are, too, predators on the other side of the spectrum. Predators who have created a cottage industry for themselves marketing lists of less than favored agents, and sell them for incredible rates to authors. I was shocked when I recently saw the web site of a man who referred to himself as a "literary watchdog," to investigate and protect authors from disreputable agents.

    The man, who lives in NY, called me to get information about me. I later looked at his site and was shocked to see at the "products" he offers authors who only are desperate to get an agent, and who would trust him more because he promotes himself as a literary watchdog. No author should ever pay for that kind of information, or any other products found on those web sites.
    I suspect you're talking about Bill Martin's Agent Research & Evaluation. You should have done a bit more research. Bill--who doesn't describe himself as a "literary watchdog"--doesn't sell lists of "less than favored agents," though he does provide a number of fee-based research services.

    We at Writer Beware & Preditors & Editors do describe ourselves as publishing industry watchdogs, but we do not and will not charge for any services.
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton

    Now, the reason I am here is because there have been remarks made about me on this web site by disgruntled authors, whom I do not know, and do not represent, but have cost me business with authors I do represent.
    I found this thread about you and your agency. There are some questions in it (which you never answered, though you did post to the thread), and some comments by me and others wondering about your qualifications. But I don't see any remarks by disgruntled authors.

    I can't find any other comments about you here.

    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    The feedback about me, apparently, because I cannot find it on this site, is that I "might" work full-time, and only agent part-time, thus, do not read manuscripts as quickly as authors like, nor represent my contracted clients as aggressively as I should. The fact is, I subbed as a teacher to be able to conduct my business as a literary agent and pay the costs of doing business and the costs of living. While I am a new agent, just a year and a half into the business, I plan to stick it out.
    My concern is that you don't appear to have any professional experience that would qualify you to be a literary agent--such as having worked in the publishing industry or trained at a reputable agency. If I'm wrong, I'd be glad to be set right.

    So what exactly is your professional background? How does it qualify you to be a literary agent? Have you made any sales yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela Scott Shelton

    I have learned much about publishing and writers and writing in my short time as an agent, and that is that the publishing industry is experiencing nearly a 50% return on books that they publish.
    This is a figure that's often given for the mass market paperback segment of the market. For the industry as a whole, the figure is lower. I'd expect an experienced literary agent to know that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela Scott Shelton

    Quote:So, there's your challenge authors, look at what you're writing, and you'll see why I and Bill and other agents are telling you to go pro on the editing, because the publishing industry is trying to turn itself around, and they're not taking work that costs them a bundle to get to the market anymore.
    Again, "pro" editing is not necessarily the answer. Even if it helps, there are no guarantees it will get a given manuscript closer to publication. In my opinion, making a blanket recommendation for such a risky, expensive alternative is irresponsible.

    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    For those among you writers who are interested, I now work 3 days a week, Friday, Sat & Sun, and spend the remainder of the week on my literary agent.
    So you are a part-time agent? As a writer, I'd be concerned--I'd prefer an agent who made agenting her full-time business. If my agent were part-time, I'd want to be sure she kept her client list small enough that she could reasonably provide effective representation working just three or four days a week.

    How many clients do you have?

    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    Quote:By the way, there are an awful lot of published authors out there - whether they fess up to it or not, who live by freelance editors. Do some research, there are many who admit it too.

    True. But most writers still manage to find publication without hiring someone to edit their work.

    - Victoria
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Sheldon 06-17-2006
    Dear Victoria,

    You're absolutely right, Victoria, he sells lists for $330 that "match" authors to agents. I want to go on the record here as saying that when this man contacted me - and I have since been advised by other successful agents in the business to ignore this man - he also stated that he would provide me with the names of editors that I could refer authors to. Said he had an editor "friend" who, though professionally retired, still performed those services freelance. I never took Mr. Martin up on that offer, and I never make recommendations as to individuals or entities who perform the service.

    I think that if you, Victoria, do not look at that web site and find plenty there to caution authors about, then I am suprised. What's that about? Take a fresh look at that site, and then tell me that you believe authors would benefit from this person's service and by paying those rates? I would love others to look at that site and to weigh in on it too.

    I think editing is a tool that authors should avail themselves of, and that it can make the difference between a work that not marketable and one that is. While a professional edit might not cause a publishing editor to take an interest in the work, it certainly would impact my decision as to whether or not I would choose to represent the work.

    I will let my success or failure in this business speak for me, and I assure you, I am determined to succeed. I am a year and a half into the business, having been trained to write and edit at The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC - which, if they do anything well, it's training its students to write and edit. Also, my experience as a member of corporate business, serving as a member of the executive team, has served me well in preparing me to be tenacious and, to some extent, a bulldog really. Again, my success - or cross my fingers and hope not - failure in this business will speak for itself.

    Best of the day,

    Pamela Scott Shelton
    Literary Agent
    312 698 8660
    PScott558@msn.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Aconite 06-17-2006
    So, if I understand you correctly, you have no prior agenting experience, no publishing experience, and no publishing industry contacts. Have you made any sales?
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton 06-17-2006
    Dear Aconite

    I have no publishing background, I do have industry contacts in publishing and in filmmaking. I have recently, at their request, submitted a screenplay that I helped one of my contracted authors adapt from his book to that format; to Dreamworks. I have never had a problem having my authors read by major publishing houses, though in my 1.5 years, no sales. That, I think, is a reflection of the fact that the story, at the end of the day, must stand on its own. Also, HarperCollins rejected one because they felt it needed too much editing - one of those "if it's a good story, the publishing editor will work with the author," notions that didn't pan out. That work, having been rejected by other major publishers - and, yes, I want to go on the record here as saying the HC went to far as to look at this work seriously for consideration to publish - but was subsequently rejected by other publishers. Because I believe so strongly in the work, I am paying to have it professionally edited - my author is, as Harper Collins stated, not capable of the edit - and I do not, as a one woman shop have the time, but I have the money to have the work edited because I believe it's going to be a great success. I put my money where my passion is.

    I have also developed an invaluable contact with a major publisher - not his editors - but the publisher himself, and if you don't think I'm going to be careful about impressing him with only the best work, you're absolutely wrong; I will submit to him nothing less than the highest quality writing since he has been so kind as to work with me directly. That should speak volumes about my contacts.

    I think the support I have received from other agents and publishers and editors in their willingness to work with me, is a reflection of my own work ethic. I'm honest, dedicated and hard working - that pays off. An agent I know who has been successful and in business for 25 years tells me that I'm doing everything right, and that as a new agent, just a year and a half into it, is not unusual that I have not seen one of my authors published. She's right, based now on my "evolution" as an agent. I took on work that I thought had potential, and that was a mistake. I have released those authors of any contractual obligation to me, so that they can pursue agents whose organizations and support services allow them to perform editing at no cost to the author.

    What I have since learned is how to be selective about the work I take on - only the best of the first-time authors will be offered a contract as I go forward. I'm certain this satisfies your question.

    Pamela Scott Shelton
    Literary Agent
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna Glatzer 06-17-2006
    Hi Pamela,

    I do wonder if you'd consider ceasing to give publishing advice until you'd actually succeeded at what you're preaching about.

    What you've just said is that your biggest successes so far are that you've been allowed to mail a script to Dreamworks and HarperCollins rejected one of your client's works.

    Might I suggest you go here? http://www.harpercollins.com/global_...sbn=038097892X

    That would be Victoria Strauss, the woman you just tried to teach a thing or two about publishing.

    To be plain about it, I don't believe you have any business telling writers what's marketable, or what they should be doing, or what they need to spend money on, or passing on your advice about the state of the industry, when you've not even sold one book in a year and a half. And you certainly can't comment on what the industry used to be like years ago. I'm not sure why I even need to give this advice, but it's generally a very bad idea to tell others what they're doing wrong when you have no experience whatsoever in doing it right.

    This whole discussion, of course, should be moved to the other thread... it has little to do with William Levin anymore.

    Edited to add: So I moved it. In case you're coming to this discussion late and noticed the weird nonsequitor, this is the thread it came from:

    http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/...read.php?t=614
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Yee 06-17-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    I read many potentially good manuscripts each month, and the problem with most of them is that they lack the professional editing that makes the difference between a ready to market product, and one that the major NY publishers won't even consider. Publishing eidtors are no longer people who "work with" authors, as they might have years ago. Today's editors are decision makers about what to buy, and what to pass on. They're busy people, and they look for the highest quality of work to buy. Trust me, there is a lot of quality out there too.
    "Major New York publishers won't even consider a manuscript that lacks professional editing."

    That there line or something similar is a big tip-off that this isn't an agent you want to deal with. Publishing editors do still "work with" authors. If they didn't, HarperCollins editors wouldn't have been able to work with this one particular author to edit and finally publish The Burning Land and its sequel The Awakened City, both books written by this very same Victoria Strauss whom you are trying to contradict. She's had seven novels published by multiple publishers, she has much more publishing experience than you, and since 1997 has been actively gathering information about various agents, publishers, and other writing-related businesses. She's very meticulous at verifying everything in her files (some of them extremely big and bulging and fat).

    From what Victoria has said before, agents should be qualified: they should have prior publishing-related experience before trying to become an agent. Normally, a qualified, experienced, and competent new agent should start making sales within six months to a year of setting up their agency.

    If you have no prior publishing experience, and you have made no sales in a year and a half, then there's something you're not doing right. It's better to start working for a publisher or for another agency, where you can work your way up from intern to (eventually) assistant agent to (eventually) a full agent for the agency, and then possibly go solo if you're making lots of sales to major publishers on a regular basis. It takes lots of time to get this experience though. A long time. You could always start out as a slush reader for a publisher (not a very fun experience, as you can see from the pictures of the toppling mountains of slush at Tor Books). You have to be willing to start out doing unpleasant tasks for major publishers and successful agents. Not everyone is up to doing these tasks. It's a fact of life in the publishing industry.
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Shelton Scott 06-18-2006
    I think having a different opinion from Victoria is very different from trying to "teach" her a thing or two. Her experience leads her to have one idea, mine another.

    It's the job I have taken on to give advice to the people I represent and to authors seeking my representation, and I will continue to do that, since thus far it has in fact proved to be useful and in the right direction. I always tell authors seeking my advice, and to whom I suggest editing would improve their work, that another literary agent might disagree with me, and that is the agent they want to represent their work as stands. When I suggest editing, it's what I need to see in the work for me to consider representing it. It's that simple, and it's not going to change if that's my impression of the work.

    As to the implication of your suggestion that I stop giving aspiring authors publishing advice, I respond with reminding you of the great editor, Maxwell Perkins, and I offer you this quote from him, my publishing hero; Armed with a letter of introduction from one of his Harvard professors, Perkins applied for a job with the publishing house of Charles Scribner's Sons in New York. "I know that people generally, and with considerable reason, suspect a newspaperman to be wanting the quality of steadiness," he explained to Scribner. "They do not think him capable of settling down to a regular and unexciting life."

    From the many histories on Perkins it has been written of him, “While Perkins respected the rich, 75-year history of responsible publishing at Scribner's, Max was inclined to take risks—and he scouted the work of new authors with a keen eye. As he brought on new talent, Perkins slowly altered the traditional notion of the editor's role. Bucking the usual "safe" and bland content, Max opted for writers offering a new voice—a voice that reflected the new values of post-World War I America. He excelled in getting unpublished novelists on the list at Scribner's. Perkins served other roles as well. To Scott Fitzgerald, an erratic spendthrift who would never live down the consequences of his misuse of cash and credit, Max offered friendship and shouldered the responsibility of being the young author's financial overseer.

    This is the career choice I have made for myself, and armed with good sense and, like Perkins, a love for all things words, and my education - albeit 2nd tier to Ms. Victoria's first tier - and the available guidance of friends whose vast wealth of experience, expertise and ideas in more career categories than can be listed here; I'm staying. So, while you perhaps think me not capable, I do believe that I will prove differently.

    Finally, there is no attack on Victoria here, so your need to come to her aid, while admirable, is not necessary. I disagree, too, that the thread had nothing to do with Bill Levin. It's subject right-on, editing. It's my thoughts on editing and the benefits of professional edit, and my experience too.

    Now, while I would love to spend more time with all of you, there is much to be read, much to be analyzed, and I go back to my business of being the agent that would make Max smile.

    Best,

    Pamela Scott Shelton
    Literary Agent
    Quote Originally Posted by Tilly 06-18-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    I think having a different opinion from Victoria is very different from trying to "teach" her a thing or two. Her experience leads her to have one idea, mine another.
    When your advice and information is so different from those with substantial publishing experience and knowledge, and you're an agent who has made no sales in a year and a half and appears to have no real publishing experience, perhaps you should reconsider whether or not you've got it horribly wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    It's the job I have taken on to give advice to the people I represent, and I will continue to do that, since thus far it has in fact proved to be useful and in the right direction.
    As an agent, your job is to sell books. You've failed, so far. Perhaps you should reconsider the advice you give to your writers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    There is no attack on Victoria here, so your need to come to her aid, while admirable, is not necessary.
    I don't think anyone here is under the illusion that Victoria Strauss needs others to defend her. But perhaps you should learn from those with more experience and knowledge than you. Like Victoria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela Scott Shelton
    I disagree, too, that the thread had nothing to do with Bill Levin. It's subject right-on, editing. It's my thoughts on editing and the benefits of professional edit, and my experience too.
    The owner and moderators are more than capable of deciding where information should go, so that it is the most useful to the writers who use this forum.


    Last edited by Tilly; 07-07-2006 at 09:36 PM.

  18. #18
    practical experience, FTW Tilly's Avatar
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    Originally page 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilly 06-18-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    This is the career choice I have made for myself, and armed with good sense and, like Perkins, a love for all things words, and my education - albeit 2nd tier to Ms. Victoria's first tier - and the available guidance of friends whose vast wealth of experience, expertise and ideas in more career categories than can be listed here; I'm staying. So, while you perhaps think me not capable, I do believe that I will prove differently.
    I would like nothing more than the existence of another agent who can sell books to publishers, and who is taking on new clients.

    While I admire your dream, and wish you success, it would benefit you to gain the experience and knowledge you need to be successful.
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scot Shelton 06-18-2006
    Dear Tilly,

    Keep in mind, Tilly, that when Perkins went to work at Scribner as an editor, he had just a little over a year under his belt as a less than feature article newspaper man. He became the most celebrated publishing editor in America. It's about freedom of ideas, Tilly, and innovation. I'm loooking for a certain quality and voice in the authors I represent, and I am entitled to that freedom. When I suggest to an author that they edit or be edited, it's what I need as an agent to represent the work. To bring it up to the standard of writing that I will represent.

    While I appreciate the thoughts of people like Victoria, that my own thoughts guide me, and have brought me success in my life - including as a paid researcher - I beg to differ, and while Victoria and Jenna's ways have worked for them, I'm confident my way will serve me well too - in fact, it has. I have two authors that I suspect will be offered publishing contracts - leaving me just one more to meet the criteria to become a member of the professional organization where I will join the long list of other agents.

    On a more important note. When the owners and moderators move a thought off a thread because it doesn't support what they're trying to accomplish in casting an agency in a bad light, that's not expertise, that's manipulation. I posted in response to what was there, rightfully so as would any other person wishing to weigh in. To show their integrity in upholding freedom of expression and ideas - espeically for a writer based site - they should leave it where they found it. It was the comments there, on the site about Bill Levin, that inspired the comment, and there it should stay. I'm quite frankly astounded that they would blatantly remove it in that fashion, taking my idea out of the thread where others cannot read the information in the context in which it was written on the site to consider in forming an opinion about Bill Levin's editing referral connundrum.

    For that reason, and because I also found a string on this site that astounded me further, specifically stated that anyone bringing up a "certain" subject (they were vague in the threat, not mentioning the exact incident, stating only that members knew what they were talking about) or mentioning the name of a moderator in a certain scenario that cuased problems for this site - though the string did not cite specifically what the issue was - that the owners would censor and delete statements about the site or moderators or the incident in question - I find that I probably will not return to this site.

    Censorship of ideas and manipulation of perceptions in self-interest is not, in my thinking, okay. Remember, Tilly (perhaps you're too young) the wall came down in 1989 - my guess is Jenna remembers that. When Jenna puts the string back from whence it came, and offers an apology for taking the liberty to move it without my permission, perhaps I'll come back to this site.

    I wish you all the best.

    Pamela Scott Shelton
    Literary Agent
    PScott558@msn.com (so Jenna can apologize)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole J. LeBoeuf 06-18-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    Tilly (perhaps you're too young) the wall came down in 1989 - my guess is Jenna remembers that. When Jenna puts the string back from whence it came, and offers an apology for taking the liberty to move it without my permission, perhaps I'll come back to this site.I wish you all the best.Pamela Scott SheltonLiterary AgentPScott558@msn.com (so Jenna can apologize)
    You what?!

    Oh, my.

    There was just such a breathtaking amount of rudeness and condescension packed into that last paragraph and signature that I had to reread it to make sure I'd really seen what I thought I had.

    First, the assumption that Tilly is younger than you (is she? I wouldn't know) and that this means you get to talk to her in such a patronizing way (it doesn't).

    Then conflating the advice that you shouldn't try to teach what you don't know, and the declaration of something as off-topic, with repression a la pre-1989 Berlin (laughable!).

    And then... you want the owner of this website to apologize to you for moving a thread without your permission? Since when does a forum owner need a forum member's permission to move a thread when she deems it off-topic in its current location? Lady, you're not only inexperienced in publishing, you're inexperienced in internettin'. You're inexperienced in forum etiquette. You're pretty darn inexperienced in etiquette in general, if you think that last post was anything less then totally out of line.

    Methinks t'ain't Jenna what needs t'apologize, dearie. But if she were, she's got the discretion to discover it and the class to do it, which is more, I suspect, than you've got.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tilly 06-18-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    Dear Tilly,
    Keep in mind, Tilly, that when Perkins went to work at Scribner as an editor, he had just a little over a year under his belt as a less than feature article newspaper man. He became the most celebrated publishing editor in America. It's about freedom of ideas, Tilly, and innovation. I'm loooking for a certain quality and voice in the authors I represent, and I am entitled to that freedom. When I suggest to an author that they edit or be edited, it's what I need as an agent to represent the work. To bring it up to the standard of writing that I will represent.
    You have the freedom to call yourself an agent and take on clients. Your inexperience would suggest it would be unwise for a writer to submit to you.

    Perhaps it would benefit you and your clients if you accepted those who already write to a standard that you wish to represent. An agent suggesting revisions is not unusual, but you seem to be taking on clients who need much more substantial help.
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    While I appreciate the thoughts of people like Victoria, that my own thoughts guide me, and have brought me success in my life - including as a paid researcher - I beg to differ, and while Victoria and Jenna's ways have worked for them, I'm confident my way will serve me well too - in fact, it has. I have two authors that I suspect will be offered publishing contracts - leaving me just one more to meet the criteria to become a member of the professional organization where I will join the long list of other agents.

    But in a year and a half, you've sold nothing. I'm sure you feel you're close. So do the writers who submit to you, who provided the work that makes up your slush pile. But most of them will be wrong. Sometimes we're too close to see our mistakes, or we lack the experience and knowledge to get where we want to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    On a more important note. When the owners and moderators move a thought off a thread because it doesn't support what they're trying to accomplish in casting an agency in a bad light, that's not expertise, that's manipulation. I posted in response to what was there, rightfully so as would any other person wishing to weigh in. To show their integrity in upholding freedom of expression and ideas - espeically for a writer based site - they should leave it where they found it. It was the comments there, on the site about Bill Levin, that inspired the comment, and there it should stay. I'm quite frankly astounded that they would blatantly remove it in that fashion, taking my idea out of the thread where others cannot read the information in the context in which it was written on the site to consider in forming an opinion about Bill Levin's editing referral connundrum.
    What you've said is terribly relevant to writers who might consider submitting to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    For that reason, and because I also found a string on this site that astounded me further, specifically stated that anyone bringing up a "certain" subject (they were vague in the threat, not mentioning the exact incident, stating only that members knew what they were talking about) or mentioning the name of a moderator in a certain scenario that cuased problems for this site - though the string did not cite specifically what the issue was - that the owners would censor and delete statements about the site or moderators or the incident in question - I find that I probably will not return to this site.
    If you spent longer on this site, you'd discover what a comprehensive resource it is for writers, how the touch of the moderators is a light one, and that if you lack the knowledge to understand the context of a thread, you've probably misread the situation. If the thread is the one I think it is, you have misread the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    Censorship of ideas and manipulation of perceptions in self-interest is not, in my thinking, okay. Remember, Tilly (perhaps you're too young) the wall came down in 1989 - my guess is Jenna remembers that. When Jenna puts the string back from whence it came, and offers an apology for taking the liberty to move it without my permission, perhaps I'll come back to this site.

    You have not been censored. Manipulation of perceptions in self-interest? That sounds paranoid given the utter lack of anything to support the accusation. I'm puzzled as to what self-interest Jenna or the moderators have in making sure that any writer who is thinking of submitting to you reads the information you provided. Including the lack of sales, and ignorance of the publishing industry. Their interest seems to be in helping writers make informed decisions, and for that I am truly grateful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole J. LeBoeuf 06-18-2006
    If the thread is the one I think it is, you have misread the situation.
    I missed that in her original post. Yes, she's referring to the announcements telling us all to take the high road and not trash talk the individuals responsible for the Great AW Take-down of Aught-Six. And while it's possible that a new member might not know what the hell those announcements are referring to (although it's unlikely given what a damn big splash the event made in the literary blogosphere), I think what Pamela has read into them is totally irrational. The announcements aren't nearly as darkly insinuating as she claims.
    Quote Originally Posted by roach 06-18-2006
    Two observations:

    1) An editor's job in no way compares to an agent's job. They involve different skill sets and different duties. To continue to compare your situation to Perkins is silly. This is because . . .

    2) The measure of success for an agent is sales. You have had no sales in a year and a half's time, so you have not had success as an agent. Near misses don't count. Submitting manuscripts don't count. Taking a hand's on approach and telling authors they need editing doesn't count. All that counts are sales. Sorry, but that's the cold hard truth of the business side of publishing, in which agents take a part.

    It really does sound to me that you don't really understand what an agent does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist 06-18-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    Keep in mind, Tilly, that when Perkins went to work at Scribner as an editor, he had just a little over a year under his belt as a less than feature article newspaper man.
    He also had a Harvard education, with outstanding grades, was published himself in literary criticism, and worked on the Crimson as well as several literary journals.

    And Perkins could write. You can't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aconite 06-18-2006
    I have to say, I'm overwhelmed by the breathtaking ignorance, arrogance, and pure foolishness in Pamela's posts here.

    I think we all have quite enough information to judge the possibility of her eventual success, or lack thereof.
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton 06-18-2006
    Dear Medievalist,

    I find it remarkable that you make comments regarding my writing skills without being aware of them. How do you know I haven't been published? And how does the fact that I admire Perkins - his innovation, his willingness to go beyond the call of duty with the people with whom he worked; inspire you and others here to respond so hatefully?

    And how does admiring Perkins humanity, his altruism, his willingness to bring about interesting change in the industry - and that fact that I would like to emulate him in my way of doing business warrant a response suggesting that I can't because I'm a literary agent, and he was a publisher? You folks are really impressing upon me the true nature of this web site.

    I came back to this site to get some information - glad I did, becuase I am now more convinced than ever that this site simply isn't more than a past-time for hate mongers who hide behind screen names. This is not productive, but so filled with negative and hatefulness that I am lost to understand how you can possibly of industry value to anyone.

    I leave you all to tumble about in your bog of hatefulness, in which you seem to so richly enjoy staying nasty and dirty and mean spirited.

    Pamela Scott Shelton
    Literary Agent
    PScott558@msn.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawno 06-18-2006
    Well, if that is an example of how well you comprehend what you read (your response to Medievalist), I'm with the others here who suggest that it might be a good idea for us to wait and see if you can actually make a sale before jumping on the Pamela Scott Shelton bandwagon.

    I look forward to reading all about it in Publisher's Lunch...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald 06-18-2006
    A useful agent has sold books you've heard of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist 06-18-2006
    Your posts show you have basic problems with writing, problems that suggest you are not equipped to judge whether or not something needs "professional editing." As to whether or not you've been published, I really don't care. Publication doesn't reflect on your performance as an agent. An agent's job is to sell books. That means an agent has to know what editors want, and, most importantly, has to have good working relationships with editors. Frankly, agents don't care if the book is "good," that's the editors' problem. Agents only care about selling the book. That's their job.

    If you haven't made a sale in six months, you're a failure as an agent. Your suggestions regarding "professional editing" are . . . naive is the kindest thing I can say. It's a waste of money and time to have a mss. edited before submitting it. Editors edit, and they edit after accepting a submission. If something is in such poor shape that it needs editing before submitting, then the author needs to revise, not hire an editor. There are very rare exceptions, of course, but as an outsider I suspect you wouldn't even know the legitimate editors within the industry, editors who know what their peers will buy.

    Moreover, when you're so unknown in the publishing community that you can't possibly know who is likely to want what, when you've never worked for an editor or an agent, you're adrift at sea. There's a reason that publishing (all facets of publishing, editors, agents, designers, typesetters, everyone) has a long established system of interns, apprentice personnel and assistants (a system that Perkins worked his way through). Editing and agenting require very specific skill sets, and it's rare that even the best of either is born with those skills already honed to the extent the profession requires.

    The references to Perkins just provoked me because they were both inappropriate and idiotic. I would have just passed on by, if it weren't for your pompous and inaccurate references to Perkins. Coupled with your rudeness, naivete and general idiocy, the Perkins comments were the tipping point.

    Look, if you really want to be an agent, figure out what kind of agent, what publishing niche you want to represent, and ask someone with a good reputation as a mentor to take you on for six months. It really works; you'll learn a lot, you'll be exhausted and almost certainly work at least six days a week, but you'll have the skills and contacts to set out on your own, or, more likely, work as an assistant for a reputable firm until you're ready to rep your own clients.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Yee 06-18-2006
    Like I said upthread, she could always start out by processing slush at Tor. Do I really need to post the pictures of the toppling mountains of slush at Tor? I'll see if I can find the links at Making Light. While Tor is a publisher and not an agent, agencies sometimes also have interns who process the queries. The sad fact is that reading unsolicited queries is, at times, like reading slush. So either on the editor or the publisher side, you always seem to have to start by doing the dirty work. Although it could be said that writers also start out doing "dirty work" (depends on how you see it; I see as the necessary tasks you need to work on before can you succeed in the publishing world), it's really just normal stuff in the process of writing regularly, improving yourself as a writer, and learning to submit often.

    Pamela, an agent who has made no sales after one and one-half years in business isn't an agent a writer should trust as a reliable source of accurate information about the complex mechanics and structure and goings-on of the publishing industry of today.

    Well, if you manage to actually make some sales, I guess I would have a change of heart. We'll see.
    Quote Originally Posted by MartyKay 06-18-2006
    She compared the fall of communism to the movement of postings in a thread on a webboard. I'm waiting on a "Lurkers support me in email" so I can call Bingo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole J. LeBoeuf 06-19-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by MartyKay
    She compared the fall of communism to the movement of postings in a thread on a webboard. I'm waiting on a "Lurkers support me in email" so I can call Bingo.
    Hee hee. I've coined a Phrase. Knew it would catch on! Mwahahaha. So is that a Darned-Near Godwinism at O63 you've spotted?

    ETA: I do believe that "Ad hominem based on use of screen names" is B6, and "Returning after dramatic Flouncing Off" is at I18. I think that if the post-flounce return occurs within 12 hours of the flounce, you get to mark a corner of your choice. We should probably make this a blackout round just to make it fun; otherwise, it'll be over too soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tilly 06-19-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    I came back to this site to get some information - glad I did, becuase I am now more convinced than ever that this site simply isn't more than a past-time for hate mongers who hide behind screen names. This is not productive, but so filled with negative and hatefulness that I am lost to understand how you can possibly of industry value to anyone.
    I think you missed something quite important about this site. It's here to help writers. If you come here and start giving out bad advice from a well of ignorance, expect to be countered. I don't hate you. I do pity your clients. Quote:I leave you all to tumble about in your bog of hatefulness, in which you seem to so richly enjoy staying nasty and dirty and mean spirited.
    If you were to go and read some of the threads about successful literary agents, you'd find this isn't the case. Scam and clueless agents, however, cannot expect to get anything but short shrift from a writers' forum.I think you might find this link helpful:

    http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20586

    Quote Originally Posted by Aconite 06-19-2006
    Also these:
    Everything you wanted to know about literary agents

    On the getting of agents
    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria Strauss 06-19-2006
    Pamela, your post was moved (not removed) from the thread on Bill Levin to this one because, though you started out talking about Mr. Levin's editing referrals, most of the post was about you and your agenting activities. Jenna therefore judged that the post would be more appropriate in the thread devoted to your agency, and I completely agree. A link to the Levin thread, and a note that your post had originally appeared there, was included. So it's very easy for people to go to the Levin thread and see the context.

    It's great that you revere Max Perkins, but invoking him as some sort of justification for your lack of qualifying experience as an agent doesn't wash. In addition to what others have pointed out, Perkins was hired by a publishing house, where, as a beginning editor, he had the guidance and example of more experienced editors to assist him. An analagous situation for an agent would be a college graduate hired by a prestigious agency as an intern or assistant, learning the ropes from other agents before striking out on her own. Your situation--a totally inexperienced first-time agent setting up her own agency and trying to acquire the necessary job skills as she goes--is not comparable.

    Also, I'm curious about this:

    Quote Originally Posted by pamela Scott Shelton
    I have two authors that I suspect will be offered publishing contracts - leaving me just one more to meet the criteria to become a member of the professional organization where I will join the long list of other agents.
    So that would be three publishing contracts in all? Which professional agents' organization requires its members to have made just three sales? Not the AAR--AAR membership requires a minimum of ten sales within the past eighteen months.- Victoria
    Quote Originally Posted by HapiSofi 06-20-2006

    1. Everyone thinks editors used to edit more, but they also think children were more respectful and the fishing was better.

    2. I don't know about your editor, but I sure edit.

    3. A link about the "must be professionally edited" trope.

    4. Bottom line: Pamela Shelton has made no sales in the year and a half since she hung out her shingle. She may say whatever she wants about editing and her good intentions, and she may have very pleasant manners on the phone, but this is not someone who can help your writing career.

    If you had a manuscript that was so good it practically sold itself, your best possible outcome would be that you'd get to subsidize Pamela Shelton's on-the-job training; and you'd be praying the whole time that her lack of experience wasn't going to screw up anything irreparable.
    Quote Originally Posted by BarbJ 06-20-2006
    "I leave you all to tumble about in your bog of hatefulness, in which you seem to so richly enjoy staying nasty and dirty and mean spirited."

    This is hysterical. It's a pity she didn't intend it to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Veinglory 06-20-2006
    Last one in the bog is an optimistic sparkle-pixie (and we don't want any of those here).
    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientistMatt 06-20-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela Scott Shelton
    I find it remarkable that you make comments regarding my writing skills without being aware of them.
    I had typed out a very ugly comment as to why we are unaware of your writing skills before I thought better of it.

    The fact is that anything you write, whether it is in a book or on a message board, is a reflection of your writing skills. Some people may make more of an effort to correct typos online, but it is very hard to turn your knowledge of punctuation and grammar on and off when writing for different media. Think about it, Pamela - if an editor sent you a rejection letter telling you a novel needed editing, but the letter happened to be riddled with randomly capitalized letters and inappropriately used homophones, what would you make of the editor's ability to judge if the manuscript needed editing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria Strauss 06-20-2006
    Now, now. This is a tolerant message board. We don't want any of that homophonia 'round here.
    - Victoria
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawno 06-20-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by veinglory
    Last one in the bog is an optimistic sparkle-pixie (and we don't want any of those here).
    I resemble that remark!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey Mackenzie 06-20-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawno
    Quote:Originally Posted by DawnoI resemble that remark!!
    Are you a sparkle pixie? I always assumed you were a sparkle mouse...It's the ears, I guess. Where're the wings?
    Last edited by Tilly; 07-07-2006 at 09:52 PM.

  19. #19
    practical experience, FTW Tilly's Avatar
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    This was originally page 3:

    Quote Originally Posted by aka eraser 06-21-2006
    Miss Shelton, we've been called worse. And often, those who did the calling eventually found out they were wrong. They came back here, apologized, and became valued members of the community.

    You could do worse than hang around and learn what real writers and agents do in order to be successful. There's a wealth of information within AW's halls and it's free for the asking. Perhaps you'll learn what it takes to carve out a career. Then maybe we could become best friends forever and one day lift a glass and chuckle about the unfortunate beginning to our relationship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger J Carlson 06-21-2006
    Pamela,

    What I continue to find incredible is the lengths you go to alienate people in the publishing industry. One of the things agents do is network, build relationships with others in the industry. Here, you've had an opportunity to do that, and you've rejected it.

    Jim, Jenna, and Victoria are published authors with proven track records. Most new agents would be more interested in getting a proven talent as a client than in sparring with them.

    Nomad and Hapisofi are both editors. Do you know where? If not, why are you willing to ruin a possible relationship with an editor that might some day be evaluating one of your submissions?

    Continued insistance that you know better than experienced industry professionals just makes you look more amaturish.
    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald 06-21-2006
    Ms. Shelton's agency is apparently based in Doniphan, MO, a town of 1,900 souls located midway between those two sparkling centers of publishing, St. Louis, Missouri, and Memphis, Tennessee.

    Here's some free advice for you, Pamela. Special, from me to you: if you want to be an agent, move to New York and get a job as an intern at a literary agency. After a few years you might become an assistant or associate agent. After a few more years you might have a list of clients of your own. Then you can split off to form your own solo shop.

    "Literary agent" is not an entry-level job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey Mackenzie 06-21-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Macdonald
    Ms. Shelton's agency is apparently based in Doniphan, MO, a town of 1,900 souls located midway between those two sparkling centers of publishing, St. Louis, Missouri, and Memphis, Tennessee.
    Yes, I nearly giggled the first time I saw that. I once knew a girl from Doniphan, and let's just say a sprawling metropolis it ain't!
    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie B 06-21-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey Mackenzie
    Yes, I nearly giggled the first time I saw that. I once knew a girl from Doniphan, and let's just say a sprawling metropolis it ain't!
    Ouch. I'm reminded of a friend of mine from college. She was planning on going to law school, and told me her mother kept urging her to become a tax attorney and lobbyist. That doesn't sound so bad, but the problem was her mother was convinced she could do that and still live in her small Kentucky hometown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Insomnicole 06-21-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald
    "Literary agent" is not an entry-level job.
    That ought to be added to the list right after "Money flows towards the writer" and "The only place a writer should sign a check is on the back."
    Quote Originally Posted by HapiSofi 06-21-2006
    Right up there with "If you can't find any information about a publisher, it's a Bad Sign."
    Quote Originally Posted by Liam Jackson 06-21-2006
    Oh my lawd! Another "I kin speil agent, tharfer, I R won."
    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria Strauss 06-24-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald
    "Literary agent" is not an entry-level job.
    Amen!- Victoria
    Quote Originally Posted by Shwebb 06-24-2006
    Seeing the direction this thread has gone only reiterates to me how lucky I am to have found this place. Truly, I'm thankful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawno 06-24-2006
    Pamela said: "...perhaps I'll come back to this site." a few posts back - she wanted an apology for the terrible censorship around here.Pamela, see that little circle at the bottom of each post - at the far left corner? It shows us you're online right now. And I've been by a few times since you posted and saw you were online.I'd have concerns about doing business with someone who can't keep their word on such a simple matter as staying away from a writer's board after they promised to leave.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesstears2u 06-24-2006
    WOW! I just read this entire thread about Pamela Shelton and amazed by what I've read. Since this thread is a year old, does anyone know what has become of Pamela Scott Shelton since?Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Macdonald 06-24-2006
    Perhaps a modern-day William Hogarth could paint An Agent's Progress.

    First comes the announcement of a new agency by someone with no apparent ties to the business. We're hopeful, but take a wait-and-see approach because so many take the path I'm about to describe.

    After six months and no sales, hope starts to fade. Someone who's going to make it as an agent should start making sales by then.

    After a year, the new agent starts to wonder if perhaps the works would sell better if they were professionally edited. They won't -- the would-be agent lacks the experience to tell the publishable manuscript from the unpublishable manuscript. He or she doesn't realize that if you edit slush all you get is edited slush.

    Somewhere along in here the would-be agent may come up with the bright idea of getting a kickback from the editors he or she recommends. After all, there has to be a source of income or the agency will close, and all those authors he or she represents will be left forsaken.

    At a year and a half or two years, the lack of sales will be harder to explain away ... and suddenly the client list is not disclosed and the list of sales is "confidential." Most of us recognize that a "confidential" list means "no sales," but the agent will fool some newbies, and may even fool him-or-herself.

    Then one of two things happens. Either the agency silently folds, or suddenly takes on new vigor as it reinvents itself as a fee-charging entity. Maybe not a reading fee (too many authors, even the newest, most trusting ones, recognize that for what it is). But an "administrative fee," or a "submission fee," or an "office fee," sure. The agent may even promise that the fee will be returned when the book sells, paid back out of the advance. Maybe the agent intends it, too, but it never happens. Because there are no sales. Because the agent still has no contacts, still has no experience in recognizing publishable manuscripts. A pity. But it's played out every day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Scott 06-24-2006
    I think Dave needed contact info...it says to contact her on here at

    Pamela Scott Shelton
    Literary Agent
    312 698 8660
    PScott558@msn.com

    But....I found this:

    http://hellcop.home.att.net/
    A feature length movie script adaptation of HELL COP is available.
    Contact: Pamela Scott Shelton Agency
    pscott558@alltel.net
    573-996-9760
    I'm guessing maybe it has changed or maybe...someone has it wrong?

    And...HELL COP TRADE PAPERBACK:
    $15.95
    ISBN No. 1-931095-77-9
    Silverlakepublishing.com
    Amazon.com
    Shocklines.com
    B&N.com
    Fremont Place Books - Seattl e
    Order from your local bookstore.

    HELL COP E-BOOK: CD--$9.95, DISK--$5.95,
    Download--$3.95
    ISBN No. 1-931095-76-0
    Available in the following formats---5.5x8.5 pdf, 8.5x11 1 column pdf, 8.5x11 2 column pdf, half page pdf, HTML, and Microsoft Reader. Silverlakepublishing.com
    Fiction wise.com

    Why so much for a paperback?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aconite 06-25-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesstears2u
    WOW! I just read this entire thread about Pamela Shelton and amazed by what I've read. Since this thread is a year old, does anyone know what has become of Pamela Scott Shelton since?
    This thread started a year ago, but note the dates on the latest posts. It's current and active, with most of the activity taking place in the last few days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Popeyesays 06-25-2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Scott

    I think Dave needed contact info...it says to contact her on here at

    Pamela Scott Shelton
    Literary Agent
    312 698 8660
    PScott558@msn.com

    But....I found this:
    http://hellcop.home.att.net/ A feature length movie script adaptation of HELL COP is available.
    Contact:
    Pamela Scott Shelton Agency
    pscott558@alltel.net
    573-996-9760

    'm guessing maybe it has changed or maybe...someone has it wrong?

    And...HELL COP TRADE PAPERBACK:
    $15.95
    ISBN No. 1-931095-77-9
    Silverlakepublishing.com
    Amazon.com
    Shocklines.com
    B&N.com
    Fremont Place Books - Seattl e
    Order from your local bookstore.

    HELL COP E-BOOK: CD--$9.95, DISK--$5.95, Download--$3.95
    ISBN No. 1-931095-76-0
    Available in the following formats---5.5x8.5 pdf, 8.5x11 1 column pdf, 8.5x11 2 column pdf, half page pdf, HTML, and Microsoft Reader. Silverlakepublishing.com
    Fiction wise.com

    Why so much for a paperback?
    Silver Lake Publishing:"Hell and Back Again Hell and Back Again. 10/31/2004. Burton, David C. Hell Cop. Lansdowne, PA: Silver Lake Publishing, 2004. 284 p. ... sling spiders, and partheogenetic golem, then you will enjoy Hell Cop. David Burton s novel is one of ... to mind here, and really, Hell Cop loosely follows much of the ..."
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Macdonald 06-25-2006
    Silver Lake is a very small press SF house, but entirely legitimate. Mr. Burton sold his novel to them before Ms. Shelton set up in business. I don't see its relevance.
    Last edited by Tilly; 07-07-2006 at 10:09 PM.

  20. #20
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    That last post (Uncle Jim's) was from 6/25, just to provide a frame of reference.
    ICAO
    ---------
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  21. #21
    practical experience, FTW Tilly's Avatar
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    ::smacks forehead against monitor::

    I forgot about the dates of the posts, I'll edit those in .

    ETA: Done, along with another screw up I hadn't noticed.
    Last edited by Tilly; 07-07-2006 at 10:15 PM.

  22. #22
    feroucious
    Guest
    kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk klllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll gggggggggggggggggggggg
    Last edited by feroucious; 08-20-2006 at 07:01 AM. Reason: changed mind

  23. #23
    feroucious
    Guest
    I am not esteemed, just check this website for information on certian agents. this website has helped and yes I have turned down several contracts but Pamela Shelton has been proffesional and nice and I am hoping that she works with me. For those reading these writings are P####d because they didn't get used by her. I hate to sound upset but even if she doesn't want my work then I look else where. She is legit and would provide the one on one attention an autor would want. Good luck and I lool forward to all the comments in the future.

  24. #24
    5 W's & an H Sassenach's Avatar
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    Feroucious [sic]

    I'd bet money that the contracts you claim to have turned down come from agents with industry stature similar to Shelton's.
    I feel God in this Chili's.
    -Pam Beesley









  25. #25
    Girl Detective Stacia Kane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feroucious
    For those reading these writings are P####d because they didn't get used by her.
    I know it always makes me angry when people refuse to use me. I'm glad I'm not the only one. I knew joining this site was a good idea!
    http://www.staciakane.com

    FIVE DOWN, a Downside anthology, available now!
    Four previously published short stories and one brand new novella, together in one volume.

    Click here for more details.


    WRONG WAYS DOWN available now!


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