Is there any subject beyond language?

I always found...

the study of philosophy and linguistics so mind bending as to drive me to the edge of insanity, and I avoid more than the basic courses.

I find what you say Lacan is saying, Sokal, if I've absorbed it correctly, to be near what I'm trying to say.

I'd like to add that through my own experience I've seen that everyone's language is personal, built up through those personal experiences. Darn it, you only have to look at the problems in communicating you can have amongst a group of English speaking JET students when the OZ member asks: "Do you wanna crack a tinnie?"

We can't even use language to communicate freely with each other unless we know the 'jargon' of the group. If we set limits on the language and explain it first then all group members can communicate. Right now we haven't a way to use language to explain every experience without limiting it and therefore limiting what it can explain.

I'm not an educated person but I find this "discussion" so interesting.

As I read through each post, I get a visual of "layers of language" with a wide spectrum.

Things that come to mind regarding language:

Koko : How is she/he coming along with language acquisiion? Is there a
next generation?

Interpreting animal communication : the art of decoding animal "talk"

Poetry generators : does the database become large enough that
"spontaneity" is a predictable outcome?

What happens when machines are able to "emmote"?

In the christian belief system, God CREATED with a spoken word.

Will language as it is current and popularly used become archiac?

Are social classes defined by their language acquisition and use?

Anyway, ya'll got my tiny little brain in overdrive.

kdnxdr said:

Are social classes defined by their language acquisition and use?

Anyway, ya'll got my tiny little brain in overdrive.

Click to expand...

Heh. You think pretty well, from what I've seen.

Anyway, if you want an answer--of sorts--to this question, read this book: Domination and the Arts of Resistance by James C. Scott.

I think the pain and shock that dclary is going through right now is beyond words. Such a sickening, nay, vile thing to happen to anyone. It is beyond my comprehension let alone vocabulary or language...

If language was adequate to describe anything beyond nouns we wouldn't have metaphor, simile, poetry, or anything that tries to explain to a reader using something they are hopefully more familiar with than the subject at hand. And in that case, we are merely hoping that their shared experience is similar enough to ours that we can use words to invoke a reaction in them.

To me ALL subjects are beyond language.
I think we write BECAUSE we like the challenge of trying to capture a subject with mere words.

The orginal question is debased by mind set rather than based on mind state (consciousness)...which makes it a matter of nonsensical bigotry!

In regards to an argument over the limits of the known universe (or not), David Hume once said, Why can't I go there (to the edge of the universe) and simply lift up my arm across it?

J

can't means won't, as only cowards end things!

I don't think there are any subjects beyond the bounds of language's ability to describe. However, visceral senses and experiences can never be as fully understood through language as the actual sensation or experience.

In other words (to be a little crass), while language can express the sensation of sex, it can never even remotely come close to equating that sensation.

Or, another way, there is no subject that language can't give us a view of, as long as we realize that the limits of language define the limits of how well we can truly understand the thing.

Then what about R.E.M sleep - eh? 'Love makes while my heart smiles sleeping'...pretty tuff to beat - I reckon?
Tis not the act which stimulates, but moreso the anticipation of being in the act? Read The Little Prince... a priceless book which is still one of best sellers world wide! Written in WW1 btw!

CG: we all have a selective hearing/consciousness. The problem is we think our own consciousness is more real than others. But I assure you it's all a fallacy! Hence mind set (empirically) over rides mind state (the unknown)!
And we all know FACT (mind set) is nothing more than instrumentalist mass consensus, rather than just is!

*Give rocks the right to vote*

signed: the suicidal nihilist

J

I hope I make sense ... but then what the hell does other than confusion!
SYNTAX holds all the keys btw... so yes, nothing is beyond the reach of mind! But then everything else is beyond reaching a mind set in stone...or gravel tar'd up as mortar - that is!