Old West Reference / Western History Books

Jonah Hex

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Hi everybody!

I post here because I think this is the right topic for my questions.

I have two questions and I hope in your help:

1) Does exist Old West books similar to the Moulton's one "Eveyday life in the Wild West"?

2) This is more a confirmation than other: if you know, how many pages has really the "The Wordsworth Dictionary of American West" by Will Blevins? It's the 1993 edition of the last "Dictionary of American West" by Sasquatch Books. Some web sites says it has about 260 pages, other says it has 400 pages. Who is right?

Thank you very much for any help.

So long!
 

HarryHoskins

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Hey Jonah, :)

We got some pretty good Old West expert type people here. One should be along shortly to help you out.

Counting down. :)
 

Puma

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Jonah - Can you explain your first question a little more? Are you looking for a single book similar to Moulton's or a series of books or ...?

I'm not really familiar with either book you mentioned, so at the moment, I can't help, but I might be able to if I understood your first question better. Puma
 

FOTSGreg

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I recently stumbled across a coffee table book "Guns of the American West" (I'm pretty sure that's the title) for something like $10 at B&N. It's absolutely gorgeous, full of anecdotes and pictures of old guns and facts about their history and production, manufacturers, designers, and history. It even has some interesting tidbits scattered throughout the book on some of the more esoteric weapons seen earlier in the west (like a side-pin cartridge Lemat, I believe).
 

Dave Hardy

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Hi everybody!

I post here because I think this is the right topic for my questions.

I have two questions and I hope in your help:

1) Does exist Old West books similar to the Moulton's one "Eveyday life in the Wild West"?

2) This is more a confirmation than other: if you know, how many pages has really the "The Wordsworth Dictionary of American West" by Will Blevins? It's the 1993 edition of the last "Dictionary of American West" by Sasquatch Books. Some web sites says it has about 260 pages, other says it has 400 pages. Who is right?

Thank you very much for any help.

So long!

Interesting questions you have.

1) Re Moulton's Everyday Life, I went to WorldCat, an online searchable library reference. I searched for books under the same subject heading as Moulton's. There were very few and they seemed to be rather different.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]The wild, wild West of Louis L'Amour : The illustrated guide to cowboys, indians, gunslingers, outlaws and Texas Rangers /[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif], [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Bruce Wexler. 2005[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Westward Ho! : literature-based activities for thematic teaching /[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Doris Jordan; Catherine Yuh, 1992 (Doesn't sound even close)


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica]Gunslingers : [/FONT]wild West action! /[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Mark Arsenault, 2003 (a game, not actually a handbook).[/FONT]

[/FONT]2) I looked up all the editions of the dictionary WorldCat lists (there are only a few). They all show 266 pages, so I think 266 is most likely correct. If someone has actually seen it, they would know more than me.

I have a thread on Western history books, though it's been a while since I posted on it. In the US we're close to saturated with Western history, both general works and specific ones. If there's a topic you are interested in, drop some specifics and someone would surely know an English-language title that would cover it.
 
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Jonah Hex

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Thank you to everybody.
In the question 1. I ask for books about the everyday life in the Old West (towns, jobs, food, clothes, money, medicine, social life, ecc. ecc.) because the Moulton's book is excellent but not much exhaustive.
The two books listed by Dave I think are not quite pertaining.

About the question 2. Thank you Dave, I hope only that the Wordsworth edition is exactly alike the most recent editions... so why the Wordsworth one has many less pages than the others? Considering that all other editions have 400+ pages?

Anyway, thank so much to everybody, you're very kinds :)

So long pards!
 

Puma

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Jonah - for more detailed information on life in the old West - see if your library has a set of the Time-Life books called The Old West. There are individual books, about 150 pages each on topics such as the Townsmen, the cowboys, the Women, etc. There are sets that show up on e-bay for $100.00 or more (there are at least two dozen books in the set).

Beyond that, I'd suggest Googling the topics you're interested in finding out more about. At least that will get you started and may give you some good ideas on reference material.

You might also look at this website to see if anything pops out

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/

Hope this helps a bit. Puma
 

Snowstorm

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Books that are loaded with vernacular and habits, situations, dress, manners, etc., are the journals and diaries of people who were there. For my second novel, set in 1840s Nebraska (then Missouri Territory), I sought out the journals of those who were in the actual locale. Many of the journals/diaries of the people in this location were edited into books, so I wasn't forced to track down the original material.

So one resource is seeking out these books for those on the overland trails or pioneers in the old cities or communities. With a little searching you can find a treasure trove.
 

Jonah Hex

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Good. I know the Time Life Series about Old West, soon or later it will be mine :D

@Snowstorm: according what you write I have a good book titled "The Prairie Traveler. The 1859 Handbook for Westbound Pioneers" by Randolph Marcy, a good guide about the pioneers world, from clothes to how to find water, from the trails to how to do a good camp for the night, and many other topics pretty helpful :)
 

Ari Meermans

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Hey, gang

Derek has now stickied this thread for us. Great recommendations, everyone. Keep 'em comin', please. :)

Thanks so much.
 

Ari Meermans

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Got a copy of MARMALADE & WHISKEY: British Remittance Men in the West by Lee Olson. Fascinating reading about those second sons who were sent over to try to make something of themselves. Some did, some didn't. Whether they did or didn't, most all left an indelible mark.
 

Dave Hardy

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Possible merge?

Is there any interest in merging this with the Western History Books thread I started a while back? It's been a while since anyone posted on it, but it covers some similar ground to this one. People recommend books that have some use as reference works, or cover some particular topic in frontier history.
 

Puma

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I don't see any problem with a merge - probably a good idea to do it. Puma
 

dpaterso

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No problem, threads merged. Edited the title, too.

-Derek
 

Jonah Hex

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Excuse me pards, does someone knows a or more books about the wildlife of the (Old) West (plants & animals)? :)

Thanks :)
 

Puma

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There is a field guide (Peterson maybe) of Rocky Mountain plants and possibly some others - birds I'm sure. It's been years since I've been out west, but I remember all kinds of reference books in the national park visitor centers.

If I were you I'd look on Amazon as a start and then maybe see what you can find on e-bay for cheap or see if you can get some of them inter-library loan. Try the standard field guides on Amazon - Peterson, Zim, Audabon - off the top of my head I can't think of others but there are some more. Puma

ETA: Peterson might be Petersen
 

Dave Hardy

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Excuse me pards, does someone knows a or more books about the wildlife of the (Old) West (plants & animals)? :)

Thanks :)

Sometimes it might be easier to find a guide for North America in general and then look at the distribution of any particular creature.

One issue is how the impact of white settlement has changed plant and animal life. While trapping beaver and hunting buffalo have had obvious and dramatic changes, something like grazing cattle has caused the spread of weeds over what was grassland in earlier times. That may take a bit of research.
 

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Here are a few of the ones I use:

A dictionary of the Old West, Watts (good section on foul lang.)

The Writer's Guide to Everyday Life in the Wild West, Moulton

The Writer's Guide to Everyday Life in the 1800's, McCutcheon

Western Words, Adams

Brothels, Bordellos, & Bad Girls, MacKell

Women's Diaries of the Westward Journey, Schlissel

Saloons of the Old West, Erdoes

Curley's Guide to the Black Hills, Curley 1877

The Prairie Traveler, Marcy

Gold, Gals, Guns, Guts, Lee/Lindstrom

How to Write the Western Novel, Braun (good bibliography)

Many more but they are specific to local areas.
 

Dave Hardy

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Goodreads & refence lists

I just discovered lists on Goodreads. They are a great way to waste time share one's love of books and reading. So I made one for American Frontier history.

I know that listopia stuff is more set up to be a popularity contest, but I think you could use this list as sort of a browsing reference library.

http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/22582.The_American_Frontier

Oddly enough, there was no list for Western fiction. When I have some time to... use in a productive fashion, I may set one up.
 

MaryMumsy

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I just picked up a bunch of the Time-Life books for $2 each. My fave used book store was having their annual 'help us make room on the shelves' sale. I think I got 15. I'll need to check to see which ones I'm still missing, so I can watch for them at other sales.

MM
 

Filigree

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Envious at the score, Mary. I've been on a budget lately, so my used-book binges have been few and far between.

For anyone in Arizona, the Central Branch of the Phoenix Public Library has an Arizona room that must be seen to be believed. You can't check anything out of the room, but they do let you copy. The two big state universities (ASU and UofA) have great Southwestern sections, too. I recently checked out a guidebook collection from 1930's Arizona, featuring the history and tourist attractions they thought were important then.
 

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Language is dependent upon the social class, education, location, and vocation. Good rule of thumb is to just go with language we use today - but leave off the slang, and make sure that you aren't using words that came into the vocabulary after the time frame of your story.

One of the great mistakes people make when writing about the west is assuming they were different from the way we are now. When dealing with the west, esp. post Civil War, you must take into account immigrants, are they from the North, South, Midwest. The Earps were basically from the Midwest. There would be an Iowa inflection in the way they spoke. John Wayne copied the way Wyatt Earp talked. You want to know the way Wyatt talked, how he sounded, the language he used, just watch a classic John Wayne western. One of the great mistakes made with Doc is that they use a Tidewater inflection in his accent. His family was from northeastern Georgia, near Oconee County, SC. If you know an old timer from Anderson, Oconee, Pickens, in SC, and Hart, Elbert in GA, you can figure out how Doc spoke. The McLaurys were from upstate New York. The Earps, Doc, and McClaurys were fairly well educated men who would not go around sounding like they do in "classic" westerns written around the turn of the century.

You need to understand that the "classic" writers used the vocabulary of their location, vocation, etc. Having a lawman in the vein of Wyatt, Bat, Luke Short, etc. sound like an uneducated country bumpkin is just plain wrong. Over half the cowboys were former slaves. A goodly number of cowboys were former Confederates, which must have made for some tense times. By the late 1870s most large ranches preferred hiring former Buffalo Soldiers, most of whom came from the South.

Very few people who lived in the "wild west" were from there. The exception would be in the southwest, where the Hispanic population would be speaking Spanish as a primary language, and might not even speak English.

Don't fall into the trap of assuming that novelist know what they are doing, even the classics. Louis L'Amour is the exception. Unless a person in the west was illiterate, you will find they were as well read as possible. There was very little to do, except for reading. Families would have a King James Version of the Bible. Many would have Shakespeare. Quite often, that's how people learned to read. That would reflect their vocabulary.

Wyatt was extremely well educated (self educated), probably the rule, not the exception. He was a voracious reader. He kept books in his saddlebags, even when out riding. He would go to the local library where he lived and check out stacks of books, devouring them. His favorite western was the Virginian, which he said 'got it right'. He read and re-read the book.

What truly annoys me is to read something that is an insult to the intelligence to the reader, and the time period. They were not ignorant wretches. Their language skills, on average, were far superior to ours today. Their vocabulary was superior to ours. Their slang was different, more interesting.

SJR

SJR
 
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Jonah Hex

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Hi folks,
excuse me if I trouble you but I have a doubt. In your opinion which of these books is (or are) more good for write western fiction and, generally, for historical research about the Old West?

- Bloomingdale's Illustrated 1886 Catalog
- Montgomery Ward & Co. Catalogue and Buyers' Guide 1895
- 1897 Sears Roebuck & Co. Catalogue

I'm looking for books about the everyday tools and things on the Frontier, so if you have other titles (particularly of general stores catalogues) I will be happy. My doubt is about the years because 1895 is a bit too "beyond" the Old West epic.

In sum: the things (and the procedure to purchase them as payment, order, shipping, etc.) illustrated inside the above mentioned titles were available in and during the Old West (at least between 1866-1886) or were already too modern for that period?

Thank you!!
 
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