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Thread: Lachesis Publishing / Sinful Moments Press

  1. #1
    Guido
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    Lachesis Publishing / Sinful Moments Press

    Hi everyone:

    What's your take on these submission guidelines?

    http://www.lachesispublishing.com/guidelines.htm

    POD crossed my mind.

    Take care,
    G

  2. #2
    practical experience, FTW Moon Daughter's Avatar
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    Guido, I don't think it's a place anyone would want to publish with. It seems kind of sketchy...but they seem somewhat upfront about their practices. You should go to a publisher who will give you an advance. Lachesis Publishing states they don't give an advance, which probably means they're scamming peope or don't believe in their book (perhaps both). By the looks of it, a book would only be available online if one did get published by them. They really remind me of Publish America (oh, the horror!)
    YA Paranormal 70k (still plugging away)
    YA Thriller 86,000 (trunked)

  3. #3
    haz a shiny new book cover Christine N.'s Avatar
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    I know a little about this publisher, because their publicist is the same as mine.

    They are not a scam. They are a canadian publisher who is legitimate. They have a desire to succeed, but I'm not sure they have the wherewithall. The woman who started the company is very serious about the business. Your book will be edited, you can see the staff they work with. As far as product, I haven't seen it, but I know they will be working with LSI. Neither here nor there, lots of places use LSI.

    I will tell you that they are starting out as POD, no print runs. Expense, I was told, is the reason for that. So there's that. But they will be submitting titles to chain buyers, and have an interest in actually selling books. Will they get there? Dunno, but it won't be for lack of trying.

    My own personal feelings? I'd watch them for awhile, see what they do. There is a good chance they will change for the better once they're on their feet and running.

    I must say that it's not my first choice, but they are not out to scam anyone. Gormless? Perhaps. I'm keeping an eye on them to see what they've got.
    Christine

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  4. #4
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    With a POD micro-press, you will likely get about the same amount of exposure you would with one of the POD-based self-publishing services like iUniverse--i.e., listings on the publisher's website, listings at online booksellers, a listing in the Ingram catalog so that bookstores can order your book if someone walks in and asks them to. You'll probably sell in the same range as an iUniverse author, too, even if you vigorously self-promote--on the order of a few hundred copies at most.

    POD-based micro-presses are often selective, and they do make an effort to edit. However, these may be dubious services, because the people involved with the press may not have any relevant professional experience, and may not have the skills or knowledge to do a professional job.

    If this is what you want, fine. Just go into it with your eyes open, and don't count on your micro-press-pubbed book being considered a professional writing credit. And watch out for bad contract terms. They're unfortunately quite common with small presses.

    - Victoria

  5. #5
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    It's a neat mythological association--Lachesis being one of the Moirae (Fates).
    Clothos spun the thread of fate, Lachesis measured the length of each individual thread, and Atropos, snipped it off.

    Right now they seem to have a single book by a single author, so it's not time to assign one's literary thread to their measure in my estimate.

    Regards,
    Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
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  6. #6
    Sockpuppet Kendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriastrauss View Post
    With a POD micro-press, you will likely get about the same amount of exposure you would with one of the POD-based self-publishing services like iUniverse--i.e., listings on the publisher's website, listings at online booksellers, a listing in the Ingram catalog so that bookstores can order your book if someone walks in and asks them to. You'll probably sell in the same range as an iUniverse author, too, even if you vigorously self-promote--on the order of a few hundred copies at most.

    POD-based micro-presses are often selective, and they do make an effort to edit. However, these may be dubious services, because the people involved with the press may not have any relevant professional experience, and may not have the skills or knowledge to do a professional job.

    If this is what you want, fine. Just go into it with your eyes open, and don't count on your micro-press-pubbed book being considered a professional writing credit. And watch out for bad contract terms. They're unfortunately quite common with small presses.

    - Victoria
    Every publisher had to start out at sometime, even Harper Collins! :-) Small presses can do better for an author, than large ones. There are discontented authors from the *majors* as well. They're not all they're cracked up to be. If you discourage authors from signing with small presses, it doesn't leave them much, except to try and find a bona fide agent. And what are the odds of that for a new writer? Less than one per cent, according to some sources.

    But even supposing they beat these odds, publication by a *major* is by no means a given. The agent only has a fifty-fifty chance of getting them a contract. And incidentally, that may not even be with a *major.* Either way, this kind of game plan, is a wee bit limiting in today's market, where diversification (as in most businesses actually) is the key to success. The industry has undergone dramatic changes in the last decade. If one insists on sticking to the old ways, he is likely to be left behind.

    Keep up the good work in exposing the deadbeats in the business. However, in this particular thread a perfectly legitimate publisher got a bad rap.

    http://www.lachesispublishing.com/
    Last edited by Kendra; 01-27-2008 at 04:20 AM.

  7. #7
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    The difference in exposure can be whether they make a lot of sales from their own site, as for example romance e-PODs like Ellora's Cave do.

    As arguments go, everyone starts somewhere etc seem weak. More small presses acheive bankruptcy than become a large press. I am far more impressed by a small press pushing their expertise, strengths and marketing plan than dissing other publishing models.
    Emily Veinglory

  8. #8
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    Most of the epub and micro presses can't afford to give advances, so that hardly means that they are scammers.

    I also think it is not true that epub/pod's can't do any more than self-pubs for authors. Some small presses do a lot of work to publicise their books. That was one of the reasons I went with Swimming Kangaroo, because they regularly show up at conventions pitching to indies, send out ARCs to reviewers, etc. I expect to do marketing myself as well, but so do authors with majors if they're smart. It's just not true that no micro-presses work at marketing.

    Will you do better with a major? Well, of course, but not all books are right for a major either.

    Veinglory, I don't think anyone was dissing anyone except small presses. Saying that they are no better than self-publishing seemed to me to be unnecessary and inaccurate. I realize that Ms. Strauss is highly respected, but that remark about small presses in general being no better than iUniverse didn't seem called for. Whether Lachesis will make it or not, there are some good ones out there. They've been around for more than a year now and have a growing list of titles it looks like.
    Last edited by Dragon-lady; 01-27-2008 at 04:39 AM.

  9. #9
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    Victoria said "micropresses" not "small presses".

    Regards,
    Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
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  10. #10
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    I was responding to Kendra 'not all they are cracked up to be' and 'less than one percent' comments about the large press. Small presses also often accept a few percent and also can perform well below what authors are led to expect, right down to single digit sales. I think that kind of negative approach borders on being a red flag c.f. what does the small press deliver that self-publishing does not? In most cases the answer is (or as the case may be, is not) quality editing and sufficient distribution to sell significantly above the usual self-POD 100 copies.
    Emily Veinglory

  11. #11
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    The same is true of micro-presses, Popeyesays. I'm not even sure where the dividing line is.

    I agree that you have to know what to expect from a small/micro-press, Veinglory. And had I thought that my novel was suitable for a major, I would have subbed to them. As it was for various reasons, I knew that it wasn't. But I also have made it my business to know what to expect. One of the things I don't expect is to get rich from publishing with a micro-press.

    The remark just seemed unnecessarily negative to me. There are micro-presses out there that market.

  12. #12
    Sockpuppet Kendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veinglory View Post
    I was responding to Kendra 'not all they are cracked up to be' and 'less than one percent' comments about the large press. Small presses also often accept a few percent and also can perform well below what authors are led to expect, right down to single digit sales. I think that kind of negative approach borders on being a red flag c.f. what does the small press deliver that self-publishing does not? In most cases the answer is (or as the case may be, is not) quality editing and sufficient distribution to sell significantly above the usual self-POD 100 copies.
    Yet the majority of books published (79 per cent) sell less than 100 copies. Are they all self published or POD?

    BTW, your list of new publishers is most helpful. And although a lot go out of business, I believe a new writer is further ahead to go with a small press and take her chances, than wait for the elusive agent/major publisher scenario. The odds against cracking this in today's market, unless you're in the know, is virtually nil.

    Now I know this will bring down an avalanche on my head from all the folks who claim to have done just that. Of course, there will always be those who beat the odds. But *odds* is the key word here. And based on the odds, an unknown writer has more chance of winning the lottery, than
    signing with a top agent and getting a contract with a major.

  13. #13
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    I know, I publish with several small press that perform very well and have never submitted to a large press. It is horses for courses rather than one being better than the other across the board. Ditto for self-publishing. But in my experience good small presses do not push 'big presses aren't all that' as a reply to comments about their own limitation re: distribution et al. Instead they proactively lay out their distribution strategy be it providing discount and returns like the big boys or focussing on the smaller online market.

    If you have the right book for a large MY press, it seems to me that you should go that route. If you don't, it was never an option. They two are simply different creatures. If anything I feel it is unfair to suggest small presses are second best but getting a large press is too hard. I published with the best press for my book in my sig, the first and only one I approached.
    Last edited by veinglory; 01-27-2008 at 05:20 AM.
    Emily Veinglory

  14. #14
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendra View Post
    Yet the majority of books published (79 per cent) sell less than 100 copies. Are they all self published or POD?
    Probably almost all. Even a very badly underperforming title from an offset press will tend to break 1000 sales. I would have trouble imagining a way for them to sell less than 100.
    Emily Veinglory

  15. #15
    Sockpuppet Kendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veinglory View Post
    I know, I publish with several small press that perform very well and have never submitted to a large press. It is horses for courses rather than one being better than the other across the board. Ditto for self-publishing. But in my experience good small presses do not push 'big presses aren't all that' as a reply to comments about their own limitation re: distribution et al. Instead they proactively lay out their distribution strategy be it providing discount and returns like the big boys or focussing on the smaller online market.

    If you have the right book for a large MY press, it seems to me that you should go that route. If you don't, it was never an option. They two are simply different creatures. If anything I feel it is unfair to suggest small presses are second best but getting a large press is too hard. I published with the best press for my book in my sig, the first and only one I approached.
    Ditto on that. It all boils down to what we write. Small presses are often more selective than the bigger ones. But even when a small publisher folds, its authors have (hopefully) learned something from the experience and will go forward with a decent publishing credit. I found Victoria's statement about micro publishers not being a recognised publishing credit surprising. I don't think it's fair to lump all small publishers together like that. As in everything else, there are good ones as well as bad.

  16. #16
    Sockpuppet Kendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veinglory View Post
    Probably almost all. Even a very badly underperforming title from an offset press will tend to break 1000 sales. I would have trouble imagining a way for them to sell less than 100.
    Here are some more stats:

    Out of every 10 hard cover adult books, 7 lose money, 2 break even and 1 is a hit.

    Industry average returns of books 30 to 40%.

    Industry routinely inflates sales figures. (But then doesn't everybody in every type of business? :-)

  17. #17
    Hapless Virago IceCreamEmpress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendra View Post
    Every publisher had to start out at sometime, even Harper Collins!

    HarperCollins is a company created from the merger of two large publishing companies: Collins Publishing, which began as a printer of Bibles in Scotland in 1789, and Harper Brothers, which began as a jobbing printer in the US in 1817, then became a publisher in the mid-1830s. None of the companies that were rolled into the entity that eventually became HarperCollins were ever a micropublisher or small press.

    Micropublishers aren't ever going to become major publishing houses, nor is that their goal. Very very few small presses ever become majors, and apart from Farrar Straus Giroux, the only small presses to turn major in the US do so as a result of being acquired by a larger company.

    Publishing with a micropress or small press or niche press is a great choice for many authors. However, anyone who wants to be published by a large publishing house shouldn't expect a small press to grow; it's not like getting in on the ground floor of a computer startup and working with Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak in a garage and sticking with it for 30 years until you're a senior executive vice-president at Apple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kendra View Post
    Industry routinely inflates sales figures. (But then doesn't everybody in every type of business? :-)

    Not in the United States, they don't. The Securities and Exchange Commission comes down pretty harshly on shenanigans like that, even if the Federal Trade Commission doesn't catch them.

    I don't know where you're getting these "stats" but they sound inaccurate to me.

  18. #18
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendra View Post
    Here are some more stats:

    Out of every 10 hard cover adult books, 7 lose money, 2 break even and 1 is a hit.
    That is ... misleading.

    The truth is that 70% don't earn out. That isn't the same as losing money. Far from it. Publishers start to make a profit long before a book earns out.

    In fact, advances are designed so that books won't earn out. The advance is set to equal what the publisher thinks the total royalties over the book's life will be. The surprise isn't that so few books earn out, it's that so many do.

  19. #19
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendra View Post
    Here are some more stats:

    Out of every 10 hard cover adult books, 7 lose money, 2 break even and 1 is a hit.

    Industry average returns of books 30 to 40%.

    Industry routinely inflates sales figures. (But then doesn't everybody in every type of business? :-)
    I don't see how that effects my impression that a book selling less than a hundred copies is almost certainly POD and probably self-published more often than not.
    Emily Veinglory

  20. #20
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendra View Post
    Yet the majority of books published (79 per cent) sell less than 100 copies. Are they all self published or POD?
    That too is misleading.

    That's derived from data from bookscan, which only counts hardcovers, only deals with bookstores, only hits around 60% of those bookstores, and counts ISBNs rather than titles (one title can have multiple ISBNs).


    "All books" is also a slippery term, particularly when you're trying to apply it to a subset of "all books," to wit, commercially-published books.

  21. #21
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendra View Post
    And what are the odds of that for a new writer? Less than one per cent, according to some sources.
    Thinking of "odds" is a poor way of understanding the process. This is a game of skill, not a game of chance. It isn't like publishers walk into the Slush Room once a month, pull out a few manuscripts at random, print them, and send the rest back.

    Listen to me: If you can write two consecutive pages of grammatical English with standard spelling you are already in the top 10% of the slush pile.

  22. #22
    Sockpuppet Kendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
    Thinking of "odds" is a poor way of understanding the process. This is a game of skill, not a game of chance.
    Talent, of course. But there's a huge amount of luck involved too. When you have five thousand manuscripts all vying for one publishing slot, skill alone won't cut it. It's the luck of the draw. Getting the right manuscript onto the right desk at the right time. So to tell an unpublished writer that providing they've written a knockout book and have a killer query, they'll make it, is cruel as well as inaccurate.

  23. #23
    Sockpuppet Kendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceCreamEmpress View Post
    HarperCollins is a company created from the merger of two large publishing companies: Collins Publishing, which began as a printer of Bibles in Scotland in 1789, and Harper Brothers, which began as a jobbing printer in the US in 1817, then became a publisher in the mid-1830s. None of the companies that were rolled into the entity that eventually became HarperCollins were ever a micropublisher or small press.
    (LOL) Isn't this splitting hairs? I said that every business has to start off sometime *even* Harper Collins. And they did --- er, didn't they? :-) And incidentally, Collins did not have an easy time of it for a while either. Looked like they might go under. (Imagine???) So they didn't just spring onto the market like Athena out of Zeus's head, either.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarperCollins

    "The company had to overcome many early obstacles, and Charles Chalmers left the business in 1825. The company eventually found success in 1841 as a printer of Bibles, and in 1848 Collins's son Sir William Collins developed the firm as a publishing venture, specialising in religious and educational books."

    So hey, given the time line here, perhaps there is hope for other start up ops, as well? :-)


    Cheers
    Last edited by Kendra; 01-27-2008 at 07:08 AM.

  24. #24
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendra View Post
    So to tell an unpublished writer that providing they've written a knockout book and have a killer query, they'll make it, is cruel as well as inaccurate.
    It also happens to be true.

    Maybe not to the first place, maybe not to the second, but sooner or later, and sooner rather than later if it really is a knockout book.

  25. #25
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    To echo Uncle Jim, a house like Tor may pass on a knockout book for several reasons: Not for them, can't fit in their schedule or they feel it will got lost in shuffle. They reject it and the author tries another house. This second house (or third or twentieth) will snap it up.

    Steven Brust said it best: If it's good, someone will buy it.

    Start on the top when submitting and work down.

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