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Thread: The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

  1. #1751
    DeePower
    Guest

    Query for PublishAmerica news article

    Dave, Victoria, Jim: Would you email me a brief one or two sentence description of yourself (bio) that I can use for the query for a potential news article on PA.

    LindyLou: Can you email me a short paragraph or two about your experience with PA? The more facts the better.

    Rebecca I have you included.

    Any more authors out there that would like to tell their story with PA?

    Is anyone willing to provide copies of those infamous nasty and rude PA emails for me to excerpt from?

    Dee
    www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com

  2. #1752
    DeePower
    Guest

    And my email address is


  3. #1753
    Selenia692
    Guest

    whiners.net

    omg...I can't stop laughing...damn you I'm trying to finish a project...ahahahahahahahahah

    :hail

  4. #1754
    James D Macdonald
    Guest

    The Old Story Again

    An oldie but a goodie resurfaces on the PA boards:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>

    Subject: The Intelligence of Book Publishers...


    Message:
    I came across this true story, and thought I'd share it with you all. It really shows you what PA's up against:

    A frustrated writer came up with a novel scheme to test the intelligence of book publishers. He retyped into manuscript form "The Painted Bird," Jerzy Kosinski's award-winning novel, and submitted it, under his own name, to a dozen big publishers. They all rejected the manuscript as not being worthy of publication, including the house that had actually published Kosinski's book.

    --Not to denounce other publishers, of course, but clearly, these things happen. Just food for thought.

    </blockquote>

    <a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5589.htm" target="_new">The Intelligence of Book Publishers...</a>

    No, they didn't reject it as being "unworthy of publication." They rejected it as "plagiarism." But, to avoid nasty legal stuff, including possibly being stalked by a nutjob author, they just slipped a standard rejection slip back into the envelope.

    I've heard from a couple of editors who've run into similar stuff -- one, at a major science fiction house, was amazed to discover that someone had retyped A Fish Dinner in Memison by E. R. Eddison, and submitted it as his own. (Note, for those who haven't read it -- it's a well-known work, and Eddison's style is distinctive.)

    Was it sent in by a scammer who figured that no one would notice? Was it sent in by a nutjob who thought that he was E. R. Eddison? Was it sent in by a clever-bunny newspaper reporter who was trying to prove that editors don't read manuscripts and reject publishable works? Who knows? Who cares? This editor put a rejection slip into the envelope and sent it back. Life's too short, editors have enough other things to do with their time, and playing that sort game isn't part of an editor's job description.

    Another editor, at a major publisher, some years earlier, was astounded to discover that someone had retyped Gone With the Wind and submitted it under his own name. Same deal -- instantly recognized, instantly rejected.

    I heard both of those stories directly from the editors involved; this isn't friend-of-a-friend stuff.

    Now ... to move over to hearsay, I've heard of someone who retyped the script for Everybody Comes to Rick's (the original title of Casablanca) and sent it around to a bunch of major studios and agencies, again without getting a nibble. Proof that no one read it? Proof that they didn't recognize talent? I don't think so, since allegedly one of the agents sent it back with a note that read "I have some wonderful ideas for casting this movie. Unfortunately, most of the actors are dead."


    <HR>

    I wonder ... if someone submitted The Painted Bird to PA, would anyone there notice that it was a well-known work still under copyright?

  5. #1755
    XThe NavigatorX
    Guest

    Re: I'm surprised...

    this thread is still up!
    www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5543.htm

    I thought for sure this would have been pulled by now .
    Guess some others saved the day with their explanations.
    The thread has since turned pretty sour. It'll be gone in twelve hours, I bet.

  6. #1756
    RealityChuck
    Guest

    Re: Exposing PA facts

    <Now ... to move over to hearsay, I've heard of someone who retyped the script for Everybody Comes to Rick's (the original title of Casablanca) and sent it around to a bunch of major studios and agencies, again without getting a nibble. Proof that no one read it? Proof that they didn't recognize talent? I don't think so, since allegedly one of the agents sent it back with a note that read "I have some wonderful ideas for casting this movie. Unfortunately, most of the actors are dead.">

    Actually, the Kosinski story also had the same kicker: the single personal rejection said, "Jerzy Kosinski comes to mind as a point of comparison." I think the editor was saying the same thing.

    BTW, the actual novel sent around was Kosinski's Steps, not The Painted Bird. When you see the latter title, you've moved from the facts to the legend.

  7. #1757
    CaoPaux
    Guest

    Son of No Returns

    It seems to me that the bookstore issue has come up more often this past month.

    www.publishamerica.com/cg.../10679.htm
    ------
    Horselover
    8/20/2004
    19:35:26
    Subject: Is your book in bookstores?

    Message:
    Like a physical bookstore such as Borders or Barnes and Noble, not just online? If so, how did you get them to supply your book on the shelf???

    -----
    bigliz
    8/20/2004
    20:35:49

    Message:
    Horselove, my book is on SOME bookshelves.
    One of the bookstores it is in is called Town Crier out of Emporia Kansas.(I did a booksigning with them in April.) Also because I had many friends and family call them and ask if they had the book.( Sick eh? BUT, it seems to work!)
    A friend of mine from Madison WI, got Uncle Sim's on shelf at a B&N there. She just asked them too buy a few and they did!
    Just be pushy and insane. I swear it works...sometimes.

    -Liz Rohloff
    author of Uncle Sim's
    www.LizRohloff.com

    -----
    tim186
    8/20/2004
    20:43:11

    Message:
    I got mine on the shelves at Borders in Dayton & Cincinatti via an author-friendly area marketing manager, and at a B. Dalton's in Dayton because I bugged the daylights out of the manager.

    Keep plugging away - it takes time!

    Tim Smith

    -----
    jthompson
    8/21/2004
    16:12:27

    Message:
    My novel, A Brownstone In Brooklyn, is in Barnes & Nobles, Borders, Chapter 11 and other Atlanta/Athens area bookstores.

    When I was at the New York is Book County festival last year I approached certain store managers. I was fortunate to get the book into Barnes & Nobles in Manhattan and Brooklyn.

    I suggest contacting individual store managers and community directors.

    Best of luck.

    Julius Thompson
    www.authorsden.com/juliusethompson

    -----
    cheryl_gray
    8/22/2004
    13:25:28

    Message:
    Fantastic; hooray for all of you!

    But! Did you supply the copies of your books to the stores or did they order them directly form PA?

    I am woman, I need facts,

    Cheryl Gray
    IMMUNE
    Barefootin' (coming soon)

    -----
    greatlakeswoman
    8/22/2004
    16:14:21

    Message:
    The Dynamic Great Lakes is in stores, museum shops and libraries. The stores order the books either from the publisher or a distributor.

    The Wilderness Within is in a few stores, too, but not as many as The Dynamic Great Lakes which is now returnable. Barnes & Noble, Waldens, Schulers Books and Music, Treehouse Books, and the Bookman carry my books on a regular basis. Upon checking, I found a few more north of here that carry The Dynamic Great Lakes.

    Media attention helps a lot. When I approach a store, I often mention the radio, tv and print articles that have featured my books. They like that and are more willing to stock the book if they know that I've been featured.

    -----
    jthompson
    8/22/2004
    21:22:47

    Message:
    Cheryl, in my case the bookstores ordered the books for their shelves. I didn't supply any books.

    Julius Thompson
    www.authorsden.com/juliusethompson

    -----
    cheryl_gray
    8/22/2004
    21:26:50

    Message:
    Thanks so much. So far I'm only in one store; a local, but very large store.

    JT: Very cool photo!

    Cheryl Gray
    IMMUNE
    Barefootin'

    -----
    Nikkye

    8/22/2004
    22:17:26

    Message:
    How did you manage to get your book in Borders? I went to my local Borders and they told me that they usually only stock local authors book if they are of local interest. Seems kind of silly if you ask me and since the only interesting thing about where I live is the Battle Of Antietam....I ask how many more books can be written on the subject!? Anyway....any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    Nicole Getridge
    Shielded Heart
    Captured Heart
    www.nicolegetridge.bravehost.com
    www.ryze.com/go/Nikkye
    www.parauthors.cjb.net

    -----
    Rita
    8/23/2004
    10:39:11

    Message:

    I've tried too. I was told they would not stock my novels because...

    no return
    high price
    and only a 40% discount to the bookstore...the standard, I was told is 50-55% off with a return.

    I wish PA would consider removing this roadblock of no returns. Just think if we could all get our books in bookstores, the place people go to buy books. We would increase our sales, and our marketing and promotional efforts would pay off.

    It is embarrassing when people in Frederick ask me if they can buy my books at the local Borders or Waldens, and I have to say no you need to order them. They look at me with disbelief and ask why not. When I try to explain they question my publisher every time. Sigh!

    -----
    wm238
    8/23/2004
    11:48:22

    Message:
    i agree this no return policy hurts our book sales beyond measure.

    -----
    Bonnie Gibson
    8/23/2004
    14:11:29

    Message:
    Rita, I agree. I wish PA would at least give a return policy on at least 3 books more if possible, but with 3 at least they would be in the store and someone could buy them. Then the store could replace them as they sell.

    PA are ya listening???????

    Bonnie

    -----
    dragonking
    8/23/2004
    14:48:22

    Message:
    I went south with books in hand got my book in six different bookstores (all local - no name bookstores on the Oregon coast). Then I went north and everyone threw me out the door. The key is to keep trying, you never know. And I agree with Rita. This no return thing needs to change. Everyone who agrees with Rita should say so, right here, so we will be competitive with other authors and publishers, and maybe get on the NYT bestselling list page without having to buy ten thousand of our books ourselves. If enough of us agree, maybe PA will get the message. Gary Carter - www.garycarter-ent-jumpstart.com

    ----------------

  8. #1758
    Risseybug
    Guest

    Re: Ripoff Reports

    How long before this thread is pulled?? Or is it pulled already. I'll have to look...

    Nope it's still there! The PA board overlord must be snoozing...

  9. #1759
    Gravity
    Guest

    gone with the wind

    Guess the overlords woke up. The thread is gone. Seems they aren't as fast on the trigger as usual.

    John

  10. #1760
    FM St George
    Guest

    Re: Whiners link

    you'd think they'd be getting a clue when posts keep getting pulled...

    :P

  11. #1761
    Sher2
    Guest

    Re: Whiners link

    <you'd think they'd be getting a clue when posts keep getting pulled...>

    Well, they haven't gotten a clue yet. I think they think that something scandalous and offensive and detrimental to their well being has been said and the overlords have pulled it to "protect" them.

  12. #1762
    DaveKuzminski
    Guest

    Clue?

    I think some of them are fully aware. Here's a topic that I copied yesterday. I modified one word with asterisks to make it less offensive for some readers.

    Renee Bagley



    8/22/2004
    19:53:31
    Subject: My Thread got pulled


    Message:
    And I think that's pretty sh**ty.



    SoOTy

    8/22/2004
    22:23:17


    RE: My Thread got pulled


    Message:

    What was it about? Did something good happen?

    Tanutoo

    8/22/2004
    22:37:26

    RE: My Thread got pulled


    Message:
    Renee,
    You better be careful about what you say. They could ban you.

  13. #1763
    Sher2
    Guest

    Re: Clue?

    <I think some of them are fully aware. Here's a topic that I copied yesterday.>

    I hadn't seen that one. Interesting.

    Hey, my ExPAtriate/Banned tee-shirt came today. I love it!

  14. #1764
    DaveKuzminski
    Guest

    Clue?

    I've noticed in several forums that there are distinct signs of change among some of the formerly ardent supporters of PA. Some lately have taken to stating outright that there are problems with PA and that it's not appropriate for many writers.

    The whispered warning about being banned is only the tip of the internal network that will force PA to change. Like it or not, PA has a revolution forming within its boundaries and nowhere to gain allies. Legitimate agencies and publishers won't support PA because of its behavior and policies. PA doesn't dare accept support from scammer agencies or any vanity or subsidy publishers because that would clearly define it as what it has ineffectively claimed it isn't--namely one of them.

    The only question remaining is how fast the revolution will build. Will the PA ad in the NYT prop it up until the new year arrives?

    I just visited the PA forum to see if another topic had been pulled. I noticed that the new visible only to PA authors board is now open. I also noticed this little note on its opening page: "Posting on this message board indicates agreement to allow PublishAmerica to use the posted text for marketing or other purposes, at its discretion."

    Yep, only the good messages will find their way to the visible board. Might as well call it the Stepford board.

    Hey, Willem, Larry, and Miranda, you forgot something! Your authors have eyes and they can still read and post on outside boards.

  15. #1765
    astonwest
    Guest

    Re: Clue?

    "Posting on this message board indicates agreement to allow PublishAmerica to use the posted text for marketing or other purposes, at its discretion."

    Dave, they've been using that statement (or some variation of it) on their board since its inception (or at least it was there when I started posting long ago)...that's so they can take all the good remarks, and put them in the other areas of the board, such as the 'Testimonials' page...

    I wonder how many people even know they've been quoted on that page...I also wonder how many of those people quoted now feel quite differently...

    Big Daddy West
    :hat

  16. #1766
    DaveKuzminski
    Guest

    Re: Clue?

    This time it appeared to be more prominent to me, so I felt it was worth mentioning.

  17. #1767
    snarzler
    Guest

    PA bookstore down again

    www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5606.htm

    LindaP
    8/23/2004
    18:44:00
    Subject: Can't order from PA
    Message:
    I have tried for two hours to get past the PA Bookstore. Every title I type in takes 15 minutes to go to the Error Page. So I go back to the main page, click on This Weeks New Releases. Guess what? Every book cover I click on won't come up. The same Error Page comes up, plus, the bookcovers are so blurry the titles are hard to make out and forget who the Aurthor is. Any idea what the problem is? I sure would like to order, but I have to have the title and author and ISBN#. No way getting that from PA.
    LindaP
    Silent Killers

    rpwilliams
    8/23/2004
    18:46:58
    RE: Can't order from PA
    Message:
    The last time this topic came up the big, bad, PA logo came on the thread and said, "Sure the online bookstore is down every now and then but we don't think it's down enough to be a big deal."

    I made some comment about how I refused to argue with the big, bad, PA logo but that my opinion differed.

    Here we go again.
    Bob
    geocities.com/candide_/

    kas
    8/23/2004
    18:48:49
    RE: Can't order from PA
    Message:
    If your cookies aren't enabled it won't work.
    I had some trouble, but went to the ordering page and got through. It was a little slow.
    K.A. Schneider
    The Scent of Magnolias and Men
    ISBN# 1413734421

    Joyce Ann
    8/23/2004
    19:19:10
    RE: Can't order from PA
    Message:
    Same here. Maybe we should tell our readers if they
    want to order and can't get through online, to use the
    mail order form. What think ye? My grandchildren eat
    all my cookies!
    Joyce Ann

    LindaP
    8/23/2004
    19:24:51
    RE: Can't order from PA
    Message:
    I think ye is right. You have the same problem with your cookies as I do. But i don't think my cookies is the problem.
    LindaP
    Silent Killers

    Marti2003
    8/23/2004
    20:06:35
    RE: Can't order from PA
    Message:
    Linda,
    I asked last week and PA said they've grown to big and too fast for their server. They are going to upgrade soon, but for now the system is just too busy. Wait until later tonight.
    Hugs
    Marti
    www.casewatchers.com

    JuneBug
    8/23/2004
    20:10:19
    RE: Can't order from PA
    Message:
    I've tried all different times and never can get through! Glad to hear they are updating the system.
    June Weiner
    HOME SWEET HOME
    www.juneweiner.com

    JLRutter
    8/23/2004
    21:32:40
    RE: Can't order from PA
    Message:
    I've given up and just order through Amazon.

  18. #1768
    lastr
    Guest

    Re: The Old Story Again

    books on shelves, less than 1%?
    Subject: books on shelves, less than 1%?


    Message:
    I rec'd the following comment in an email from author support . "It may be of interest to you that less than one percent of all authors ever see their books actually stocked by bookstores."

    Is this accurate?? I find this concerning. Any thoughts as to why this is true and what can be done about it?

    Message:
    Consider that at PA alone there are 8000 authors, mostly unknown. Anything written by Dean Koontz is going to find it's way to the shelves along with such notables as the Clinton's are a gimme. But let's assume the average book store carries multiple copies of say 1000 different books. If you do the math, add in all the other publishing houses, all the vanity published books etc. It stands to reason you have to fight for your spot. Notable sales will overcome objections before pleading will. Promote,promote,promote and concentrate on local retailers to begin with.

    8/24/2004
    17:22:57


    RE: books on shelves, less than 1%?


    Message:
    It's because of the "no return" policy.

    Bonnie

  19. #1769
    James D Macdonald
    Guest

    Re: The Old Story Again

    Is this accurate?? I find this concerning. Any thoughts as to why this is true and what can be done about it?

    They're counting all books written, not all books published. They're including in the total of "all books": manuscripts that never left the authors' desk drawers, manuscripts that didn't get out of the slush pile, text books that were never intended for bookstore distribution, law books, medical books, atlases ... and vanity published works.

    Of the books that are professionally published by traditional houses, darned near all of them get on one bookstore shelf or another (usually lots of bookstore shelves) thanks to the publisher's sales force. How long they stay there depends on the book and the audience.

    Figure this, see if it makes sense:

    A traditional publisher pays multiple-thousands of dollars in advance money to an author. They edit the book, commission a cover, print multiple thousands of copies then ... "Ha ha ha!" they laugh. "We won't lift a finger to get this book onto bookstore shelves! We won't promote this book! We'll flush every penny we've spent to date straight down the loo because we delight in crushing authors' hopes! Bwah ha ha!"

    How would that profit them?

    Here's the clue: Businesses want to make money. Not promoting your product -- no matter what business you're in -- doesn't make you money. If publishers are still in business, they're promoting their products pretty well, and getting them to their customers.

    How about PA?

    Their customers are their own authors, and hardly a month goes by when PA isn't launching some plan or other to induce their authors to buy their own books. This New York Times scheme is merely the latest in a long line of similar promotions. To see who the customers are, look at where the promotion is aimed.

  20. #1770
    lastr
    Guest

    PA's New Private Bulletin Board

    Open Source BB Company

    "phpBB is a high powered, fully scalable, and highly customizable Open Source bulletin board package. phpBB has a user-friendly interface, simple and straightforward administration panel, and helpful FAQ. Based on the powerful PHP server language and your choice of MySQL, MS-SQL, PostgreSQL or Access/ODBC database servers, phpBB is the ideal free community solution for all web sites.

    phpBB are a group of individuals based internationally who believe in Open Source software. The project has been stable since its creation in June 2000 without changes in licensing, leadership or corporate associations. Our goals remain unchanged and clear, to continue developing and supporting a stable, free, Open Source forum system."

    It's FREE, unless you want them to host it for 7.95 a month. Also it is subject to some rather ominous security flaws that I won't post here. The version that PA is using is *supposed* to have fixed the worst of them but it has only been out for a month and there is some discussion in the security groups about this version still being open to some things.

  21. #1771
    lastr
    Guest

    Private BB TOS

    PublishAmerica - Registration Agreement Terms

    While the administrators and moderators of this forum may attempt to remove or edit generally objectionable material, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not PublishAmerica, who hence would not be held liable.

    You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that PublishAmerica has the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time for any reason. As a user you agree to any information you have entered above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent the webmaster, administrator and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking attempt that could lead to the data being compromised.

    This forum system uses cookies to store information on your local computer. These cookies do not contain any of the information you have entered above; they serve only to improve your viewing pleasure. The e-mail address is used only for confirming your registration details and password (and for sending new passwords should you forget your current one).

    Posting on this message board indicates agreement to allow PublishAmerica to use the posted text for marketing or other purposes, at its discretion.

    By clicking Register below you agree to be bound by these conditions.

  22. #1772
    DaveKuzminski
    Guest

    Re: Private BB TOS

    "You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws."

    Hmmm, they left out libel which is applicable. Slander doesn't apply to written communication. Leaving yourselves some wiggle room, Willem, Larry, and Miranda?

  23. #1773
    lastr
    Guest

    Re: TOS

    Posting on this message board indicates agreement to allow PublishAmerica to use the posted text for marketing or other purposes, at its discretion.
    That "other purposes" leaves it wide open for anything.

  24. #1774
    lastr
    Guest

    NYT thoughts from the board

    the light is dawning Edited to remove names

    Subject: Some Thoughts on the PA / NY Times Partnership


    Message:
    Ever since I got the most recent email regarding PA and the NY Times, I can't help thinking that maybe it isn't as great a thing as some of us had hoped. Not to say anything negative about either PA or the NY Times, but... to quote a passage in said email:

    "At the initiative of the New York Times, we have secured a half page in the newspaper's world famous Book Review section, where PublishAmerica will announce its top ten bestselling books for the previous month.

    For now, we plan to make this announcement every month, in the New York Times Book Review. We will re-evaluate this marketing strategy after three months. This is yet another absolutely free benefit of PublishAmerica."

    ---No doubt several of us PA authors will be rushing to put in orders for large quantities of our own book in order to increase our likelihood of securing a place among the top ten. I believe this creates an unfair disadvantage for those of us who cannot even afford to buy more than two or three copies of our own book (myself included, being on disability), but it IS nice that PA allows this to count toward the top ten listing.
    Having published a poetry book with PA, my main concern is, of course, poetry books. I don't hold out much hope of seeing ANY poetry books on the bestseller list. Poetry has never been very popular.
    These are just minor qualms, but I guess finding a happy medium would be next to impossible.
    I don't know if this is really the BEST marketing strategy, but as I have no suggestions to better it, I guess I shouldn't complain. Whatever happens, may the best books win!


    8/25/2004
    02:59:48


    RE: Some Thoughts on the PA / NY Times Partnership


    Message:



    We actually generated discussion about this very subject on a network we moderate at Ryze. We won't hijack your post by inserting ours, but we would like to comment.

    We all know that there are authors out there who will buy boxes of their own book--whether they can really afford it or not--to make this list. There is nothing to be done about that.

    However, we--cannot conceive of that tactic working for long. The next couple of months may see HUGE sales for particular authors who place these big orders, but when the excitement of that wears off and they are stuck with umpteen copies of their own book, then the list should be more reflective of actual consumer sales.

    In the meantime, we intend to market the hell out of our own novel and take our actual sales numbers for what they are.

    Just our sometimes-not-so-humble opinions!


    8/25/2004
    04:03:27


    RE: Some Thoughts on the PA / NY Times Partnership


    Message:
    Ditto,
    I agree, no one can keep that up for long. And if a person really is moving books quickly, legitimately, not many people can afford to buy THAT many books themselves. So I wouldn't worry too much about it.


    8/25/2004
    04:16:00
    RE: Some Thoughts on the PA / NY Times Partnership


    Message:
    I would never consider buying anymore than I need for promotional purposes. Very defeative action.

    Good advise from XXXXXXXXX.


    8/25/2004
    07:47:34
    RE: Some Thoughts on the PA / NY Times Partnership


    Message:
    there will alwasy be authors, at PA and all publishers, who will try and get their name known or on one week's best seller list by taking out a loan or having friends run and buy large quantities of their books to make the numbers look good. But everyone in the publishing business KNOWS that happens. I'm sure Bill Clinton had tons of his policical friends buy his book in exchange for helping their current or future campaigns. If I won the lotto, I'd probably buy my book myself! Hopefully PA will continue to do things for its authors that make it easier to get them into bookstores and sell the traditional way. Like take returns, for starters. PA shnould know that authors would usually be willing to buy any returns of their books (at the production cost) so I don't know why they aren't making it easier for us by accepting returns. As grateful as I am to have them accept my first 2 poetry books, and I plan to shortly submit my third, there are things they can do to help authors and themselves even more. The number one thing being: take returns and re-sell them to the author at PA's cost.

  25. #1775
    James D Macdonald
    Guest

    Re: NYT thoughts from the board

    The number one thing being: take returns and re-sell them to the author at PA's cost.


    No, no, no. Take returns and resell them to other bookstores. That's the way this game is played.

    Authors don't buy their own books.

    Authors aren't supposed to be salespersons either. Authors are supposed to be writing -- that's what they're good at. The salespeople are supposed to be selling. That's what they're good at.

    That's part of what makes that PA's <a href="http://www.authorsmarket.net/writersales.htm" target="_new">authorsmarket.net</a> twaddle so damaging: Some newbies might believe that twaddle.

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