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Thread: The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

  1. #7301
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    RE: It will be interesting to see...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Williams

    ...I hope the guy who wants to get a car payment out of it is driving a 1972 Ford Pinto...
    Well, he mentions the "90 day rule," so if his check is small, he'll just assume he'll get a HUGE one next time.

    He'll remain a happy PA author until next royalty time.

    Crunchy

  2. #7302
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Buying dinner

    Then again, maybe they have a less expensive place to have a steak and lobster dinner than we do.
    In Las Vegas, surf 'n' turf is, what, $4.99?

    This period is going to be doubly interesting. Adamant denial aside, I bet a lot of PA folks have all the recent "bashing" niggling in the back of their minds.
    Last edited by CaoPaux; 02-13-2005 at 12:12 AM. Reason: Too many commas
    ICAO
    ---------
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  3. #7303
    storm central stormie's Avatar
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    PA

    I feel sorry for the poster on the PA boards who lost her job and is thinking that her first royalty check from PA will pay the rent.

  4. #7304
    Banned
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    Vanity publication

    There's simply no way for authors to profit from vanity press books of any sort. That's the deal by design.

  5. #7305
    Banned bikrpreacher's Avatar
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    Library

    I wanted to post this link again for a friend who is probably going to be reading this thread, why I think it is important for publishamerica authors to know what's going on in the world, views on publishamerica...because everyone else does:
    but alas...I can't put the link here, please, someone who knows how put the link up to the LisNews.com site for the news about Atlanta Nights, also, please put up the link to the Atlanta Nights Web Site.
    Thanks...I promise to learn how to use all of this, but new stuff, well, I am 50 you know!

  6. #7306
    banned as an incurable tosspot Ed Williams's Avatar
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    The recent publicity was so widespread....

    ....that it would have been hard for most of the PA authors to ignore it. It's one thing to ignore bulletin boards like ours, but those PA stories ran all over the country. On top of that, the "Atlanta Nights" debacle really threw a wrench into PA's claims to be a traditional publisher. There's no legitimate press in America that would have given "Atlanta Nights" a pass through, but PA did. On top of all that, the PA authors still in the fold can't feel good about their publisher smearing authors right on their website, remember what they had up there about Beck? It was despicable. Bottom line, lots of the current PA authors who so loudly toot their praises are about to receive tiny royalty checks. And personally, if I were holding a tiny check and reading all the information out there, I would have to wonder just what in the devil I was doing. The only way PA's a viable option is if you are just simply in love with the idea of physically holding a book in your hands. And even if that's the case, lulu and others can do it far cheaper for you than PA can. PA is a literary whore, and a high priced one at that.

    Link for "Atlanta Nights" on lulu.com:

    http://www.lulu.com/content/102550

    LisNews.com info about "Atlanta Nights" is on the index page, link is here:

    http://www.lisnews.com
    Last edited by Ed Williams; 02-14-2005 at 06:01 AM.

  7. #7307
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    Literary Whore

    That's the best tagline for PA yet and is what separates them from the regular vanity presses. While the latter spam for clients there is little doubt about what they are and that's where PA's blurring hooks so many. The tiny checks are common to all forms of vanity presses. Indeed, are the standard.

    What I'm seeing though is a plethora of new 'traditional' publishers that also claim selectivity, yet are primarily POD-based. By definition this means small time sales. Online only. Other than the figures, percent of cover price not net, length of contract and returns, how can anyone claim legitimacy with such a model?

    Without striving for an agent and a publisher using offset print runs only and a publicity plan built in, I'm afraid these new authors still aren't in the game or will get there through such vanity-esque ventures. As long as new writers run to them after a handful of rejections in the real world they're still cheating themselves.
    Last edited by GPS; 02-13-2005 at 01:12 AM. Reason: typo

  8. #7308
    haz a shiny new book cover Christine N.'s Avatar
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    Woo hoo..

    Nice new board. I think I've been on one like it before, some organization or other's.

    But now I am no longer Risseybug, I am myself! Woo hoo.
    It's good to have a name.

    Yeah, we need some ICEE emoticons. Make mine a Slurpee. Oh, thank heaven...

  9. #7309
    Banned bikrpreacher's Avatar
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    publicity

    But Ed, we watched as they talked it out and decided that the publicity was actually good for them. Listen, pride is involved here, and you know how that can be. They are still trying to convince eachother and themselves that we are (and the press), lying. Not all though, even the new ones are questioning, but more privately, in emails than on the board. If any of us really thought that the news settled it for everyone, we'd pack up and go home. We all know that it didn't, yes, the word has spread, but there needs to be more and more. Take the library link I wanted posted, how many people see that? If we put it here in connection with this thread, more will see...it's on the other board.
    We might be surprised at how many are still hanging on to the hope that this news will not hit where they live. All of the authors need to know that the library's and book stores all know this news, at least that way they will be prepared when confronted with the news, and some will be. Someone, somewhere, will tell a PA author about PA being a vanity press and POD, and when the author says, "I didn't pay to have my book published," someone will say, no, but you bought all those books to sell to me now didn't you. It will be embarrassing...and now, remember when someone posted a email from that private yahoo pro-PA group? So now PA is setting up the authors to forget about bookstores and concentrate on Libraries, who KNOW about Atlanta Nights...ugh.
    From here, knowing everything that has been written, it is so obvious, but not so to the one's who are holding on, and the new one's, but they will learn, as you say, royalty checks. I say the first one is almost always small, and by the time you get the second one, you know what PA is and there are a hundred new authors over there. What a deal PA has.
    Last edited by bikrpreacher; 02-13-2005 at 01:20 AM. Reason: to thank Ed for posting the links I asked for

  10. #7310
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Google

    When you Google on PublishAmerica now, the Washington Post article is the third link (after PA's main page and one of their sub-pages).

    The code to put on your pages is [html]
    <A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25187-2005Jan20.html">PublishAmerica</A>
    [/html]

    The code for book publishing is

    [HTML]
    <A HREF="http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/publishing.htm">book publishing</A>
    [/HTML]

  11. #7311
    Banned bikrpreacher's Avatar
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    James, that is really great news, and for people looking for a publisher, that is really great, better chance now than ever that no one will go to PA without seeing what they are if they search.
    Wonder if publishamerica will wake up and smell the coffee any time soon?
    It's crazy how they ignore things isn't it.
    Last edited by bikrpreacher; 02-13-2005 at 01:43 AM. Reason: to correct spelling

  12. #7312
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Talking I like this new place!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluwinteryfox
    It took me a while to get used to the other board, now I have to learn this one. I'm ready to .
    Yes, I know what you mean. But Man, look at this place, isn't it wonderful?

    Howdy! So glad to be here!

    V

  13. #7313
    Auroraless ExPAtriate Sher2's Avatar
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    PA

    Quote Originally Posted by stormie
    I feel sorry for the poster on the PA boards who lost her job and is thinking that her first royalty check from PA will pay the rent.
    Isn't that just too, too sad? :Smack: And it's so sad that that poor woman actually believes it. PA encourages these delusions by failing to give those authors any kind of sales tracking system. For all that woman knows, she's sold hundreds, even thousands, of books. The actual sight of her check is going to be eye-opening, indeed. PA ought to be ashamed of itself. I know, I know -- the word "shame" is not in their vocabulary.

    Sherry

  14. #7314
    Banned bikrpreacher's Avatar
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    PublishAmerica Message Board

    This message:
    Under, Weird, Bad Review on Amazon:
    All this PA bashing is really starting to get to me. My book
    isn't even out and they have taken all the excitement out of
    my being published. I have belonged to a writers loop for
    sometime now (before I ever heard of PA). I got to know
    some of them and thought they were my friends. Now they
    have started reading all the negative stuff about PA and
    believe it. They say I am not a serious or professional
    writer (even though I spend 12 to 14 hours a day writing) and
    that I can't really consider myself publoished. One even says
    he has been reading and reviewing PA books and they are so
    badly written, he can't even get through the first few pages.
    It makes me wonder if this has anything to do with the negative
    reviews on Amazon. I am removing myself from this writers loop
    because I don't agree with them and I feel that if I could argue
    with them until I'm blue in the face, and they'll still believe what
    they want. I'll have more success working on my current short story
    I'm writing.
    Wouldn't it be terrible to be in a writers group, and find out too late
    that everyone thought PA was nothing? I feel sorry for this one, I
    wonder too if her group JUST found out because of the publicity, or
    if they already knew. To bad they didn't warn this person before
    it was too late. I really do feel sorry for some of them, finding out
    from others instead of looking and researching for themselves.

  15. #7315
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    The Numbers are In

    Average book prices, 2004. Source: School Library Journal

    Adult hardcover fiction: $24.81
    Adult hardcover nonfiction (not including single-volume reference works):
    $41.07
    Adult hardcover nonfiction (including single-volume reference works): $73.64

    Adult trade paperback fiction:
    $14.95
    Adult trade paperback nonfiction (including single-volume reference works): $27.38


  16. #7316
    2 WIP? A glutton for punishment astonwest's Avatar
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    Testing

    Just a test on the new board...


    Big Daddy West

    (please say the hat smiley still exists...ugh, doesn't look like it)

  17. #7317
    Banned bikrpreacher's Avatar
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    James, you are going to be mad about this, but I don't understand your last post. Help! The 2004 figures, huh?

  18. #7318
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Memphis Days?

    I received my copy of Atlanta Nights on Friday. I love you guys.

    What would happen if James and company did a find and replace on the Atlanta Nights manuscript to change all names and locales, reordered the chapters, then resubmitted it to PA? Would PA offer a contract for Memphis Days?

    - JG

  19. #7319
    banned as an incurable tosspot Ed Williams's Avatar
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    Chris, the problem is...

    ...and we've all seen this at various points in our lives, is that some people just don't want to believe something that's patently obvious. Let's face it, how can anyone, other than someone in total denial, believe that the Associated Press, the Washington Post, and all the other sources of recent news about PA are lying? When you are in that stage of denial, one of two things ends up happening:

    1. You will never believe anything bad about PA, no matter what. Remember, and I don't say this to be humorous, Ted Bundy had girlfriends who got tangled up with him after he was imprisoned and everyone was aware of what he'd done. Sometimes a person wants to believe something so badly that they will not accept the obvious, no matter what.

    2. When the realization hits, it will be devasting. We need to all remember that. Imagine going from, "I'm a legitimately published author," to, "I've thrown away a book to the most notorious POD vanity press going." That's where a lot of former PA authors have found themselves, and my heart goes out to each and every one of them. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

    Chris, we have to believe that most reasonable people, given the facts, will get the hell away from PA. Those that refuse to do so, I feel for them, because they are trying to climb up a mountain slope covered with WD-40...
    Last edited by Ed Williams; 02-14-2005 at 06:01 AM.

  20. #7320
    Apex Predator Jaws's Avatar
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    Post 2004 Numbers

    I think James was trying to give some basis for comparing PA's excessive list prices. The key figure is the median adult fiction trade paperback price of under $15, compared to PA's median price of… <vbesg>
    CEP
    blawg: Scrivener's Error (includes links to main site)
    Any legal comments in this message are general commentary only, and not legal advice
    for your specific situation. You should not rely on such comments — or any other published
    comments, by me or anyone else — as anything other than general guidance.
    Unfortunately, no scam agents, vanity publishers, or other similar carrion-eaters were bent,
    folded, spindled, or mutilated in creating this post (not for want of motivation).
    Of course it's "fine print" — it's small and red.

  21. #7321
    Super Browser triceretops's Avatar
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    Red face I think I'm in?

    Well, I crashed on the way over here and bloodied my nose trying to get in. It's a little like learning to drive all over again. Place looks fine, though. I'll miss the spell check feature since I use it most often.

    Triceratops

  22. #7322
    wishes you happiness JennaGlatzer's Avatar
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    Ed: Hope you don't mind that I took the liberty of avatarring you.

    (There's another one now in the avatar library, too, which consists of precisely two avatars-- both Icees.)

    Tri: I'm hoping there's a way for me to enable spell check. I just haven't found it yet.
    I am no longer here. If you'd like to visit me, please find me at www.jennaglatzer.com or on Facebook. Thanks!

  23. #7323
    banned as an incurable tosspot Ed Williams's Avatar
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    I'm not 100% sure who gave me the lovely...

    ICEE photo that is now gracing my posts, but I have my suspicions, and I'm blowing a sweet Juliette, Georgia smoochie your way...



    P.S. Let me amend the above - Jenna, you are da bomb!

    Last edited by Ed Williams; 02-14-2005 at 06:02 AM.

  24. #7324
    I aim to misbehave Uncarved's Avatar
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    avatars

    It still won't let me put an avatar on there. Something about having to post 50 times before I can get one. Jenna can you help me out so that I can upload one?

    tina

  25. #7325
    Apex Predator Jaws's Avatar
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    Cool Reputation

    Since a "reputation score" is required for avatar usage, Jenna, how about an FAQ entry on what it is, how to get it, and where everyone starts?

    Or am I just being a cover-all-the-bases-in-triplicate lawyer again?

    Better yet, can I write meaninglessly reflexive rhetorical questions? <img>
    CEP
    blawg: Scrivener's Error (includes links to main site)
    Any legal comments in this message are general commentary only, and not legal advice
    for your specific situation. You should not rely on such comments — or any other published
    comments, by me or anyone else — as anything other than general guidance.
    Unfortunately, no scam agents, vanity publishers, or other similar carrion-eaters were bent,
    folded, spindled, or mutilated in creating this post (not for want of motivation).
    Of course it's "fine print" — it's small and red.

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