The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Re: "us vs. them"

aye, it's a sad thing when you spit on those who are the ones who would KNOW about such things...

if he had actually sat down and taken notes, he may have learnt something - instead, he's nattering on at PA (the thread's been pulled, of course) about how DARE they insinuate that PA is anything but a traditional publisher and so on...

talk about biting the hand that could be feeding you, eh?

Molly, can you post the link...

...to the thread re Kevin, you have my curiousity going as to just what exactly he did...

Kevin

I'll ask Kevin to post it here for you.

He wrote about 30 pages and then just copied it over and over and sent it in to PA ........they, of course, could not have read it.......but sent him a contract saying they were giving him the chance he deserved etc

I will e mail him and ask him to post the details here for you.

Molly

Re: PA

errrrr... there's a dedicated thread about it on here already. It's the "80%" thread below this one.

Re: "us vs. them"

if he had actually sat down and taken notes, he may have learnt something - instead, he's nattering on at PA (the thread's been pulled, of course)

Click to expand...

Do any of the PAers (PAers = "payers") ever question why these threads are pulled. Doesn't it make them suspicious?

Re: "us vs. them"

<Do any of the PAers (PAers = "payers") ever question why these threads are pulled. Doesn't it make them suspicious?>

The only thing they're suspicious of is someone daring to tell them a truism about their "publisher." That's guaranteed to send them into a tizzy.

Re: "us vs. them"

"The only thing they're suspicious of is someone daring to tell them a truism about their "publisher." That's guaranteed to send them into a tizzy."

I think it's more how they are told. Make fun of their writing, tell them they got published but are really a terrible writer, or simply imply that they got "duped" and you will always hit a brick wall. :head

Stick with the facts and the facts will speak for themselves. Whatever a PA author's opinion of their publisher may be at the start of the contract, it will change (a few months before or after) when the book is "released". :huh

Ostracize them or try and make an example of them (or worse, take out your frustrations of the company on them) and all you'll get is, as you put it, a "tizzy". :ssh

D. James

It's not what you say...

[DELURK]

>I think it's more how they are told. Make fun of their writing, tell them they got published but are really a terrible writer, or simply imply that they got "duped" and you will always hit a brick wall.

I wholeheartedly agree.

IMHO (and I really don't want to offend anyone, but I think it has to be said) the use of terms like 'PAvidians' and so on is victimising the victim, which I think is not really people's aim.

It's the company that's to blame, not the writers. Mocking them, or their writing, is not going to help.

This is not to say that they shouldn't be told...but it's like James said, it's all in how you say it.

>Stick with the facts and the facts will speak for themselves.

And boy, do they ever speak for themselves...

Anyway, those're my thoughts.

Cheers,

Euan

[RELURK]

Re: "us vs. them"

Canada, you have a point, and it's true that some of us who find PublishAmerica's treatment of authors to be ... less than ideal ... can be more aggressive, abrasive, and assertive than perhaps is strictly necessary.

Yet ... do you remember your Quicksand Walking Shoes (tm)?

I'm trying to find some of the links. Ah, here's one of them:

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm32.showMessageRange?topicID=15.topic&start=1&stop=20" target="_new">p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm32.showMessageRange?topicID=15.topic&start=1&stop=20</a>

(Ah, a blast from the past! Just drop down to the Take It Outside board and search on "quicksand.")

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm32.showMessage?topicID=4.topic&index=262" target="_new">p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm32.showMessage?topicID=4.topic&index=262</a>

(Remember when we thought a thread was getting too long if it had five pages?)

How did those Quicksand Walking Shoes (pat. pending) work out for you? Have others used them sucessfully?

Re: "us vs. them"

<Ostracize them or try and make an example of them (or worse, take out your frustrations of the company on them) and all you'll get is, as you put it, a "tizzy".>

I agree, and it wasn't my intent to disparage PA writers collectively. As we all know, there are some fine writers at PA. Regrettably, there are also some who are nowhere near ready to be published. It's often the latter category who will jump blindly to PA's defense, no matter what, and refuse to hear any evidence to the contrary. I call that getting oneself in a "tizzy."

PA and NYT

Well here it is at last.

"Dear author,

We are proud to announce PublishAmerica's monthly topseller list in the New York Times!

At the initiative of the New York Times, we have secured a half page in the newspaper's world famous Book Review section, where PublishAmerica will announce its top ten bestselling books for the previous month.

For now, we plan to make this announcement every month, in the New York Times Book Review. We will re-evaluate this marketing strategy after three months. This is yet another absolutely free benefit of PublishAmerica.

The list will be determined by the number of sales in the preceding four weeks. Cut-off date is the last day of each month. The first next cut-off date is August 31. The ten PublishAmerica books that by that day have sold the most copies in the past four weeks will make it to PublishAmerica's monthly topseller list in the New York Times. All sales will be counted, since publishers don't distinguish between bookstores and individuals buying their books. Even books bought by the authors count!

This will give our winning authors a unique and much-envied exposure to the world's most determined and sophisticated book reading audience. The ad will include an image of their book's cover, the title, and the author's name.

So, if your book becomes one of this month's bestselling PublishAmerica titles, expect it to show up prominently in the New York Times soon thereafter. Winners will be informed in advance.

We are proud of our future winners, and we thank the New York Times for approaching us."


"All sales will be counted, since publishers don't distinguish between bookstores and individuals buying their books. Even books bought by the authors count!"

Can you say just another way for the authors to open their checkbooks? Look what they are doing. If you're book is one of the bestselling then it will be listed in the NYT book review section (an add, not a review). And to top it all off even books bought by the author will count since publishers don't distinguish between individual sales or bookstore sales. So pull out your checkbook, or mastercard, visa, we take those too, and buy as many books as you can. If you buy the most you will be in the NYT!!!!!!!

Operators are standing by.

Kevin

Re: Kevin from Mindsight board

oh my Lord...

they'll be mortgaging their houses now...

*spits on ground*

the fools...

Re: PA and NYT

The ad will include an image of their book's cover, the title, and the author's name.

Click to expand...

They even admit it's an advertisment! Will wonders ever cease? Of course, they're still saying NYT "approached" them. Yeah, the SALES department! g

The PA authors aren't the fools

The sad thing is, this won't make much difference in placing the books in bookstores. And that's what the authors are hoping for.

Dee

Re: The PA authors aren't the fools

Even books bought by the authors count!

Well, we can watch for the ads and see, not which authors are selling the most to the public, but which authors have the fattest checkbooks.

Tell you what: When the first ad comes out I'll check all the books in it against the Amazon best sellers for PA, and against the numbers sold through Ingram for those titles in the past week and the past year.

That should be ... illuminating.

Anti-PA thread turned positive

From the PA board.

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../10642.htm

Subject: Anti-PA thread turned positive!


Message:
Have a look here to see how a thread potentially harmful to PA (on another website) was nipped in the bud: users.boardnation.com/~br...readid=840

R. Eric Swanepoel
Saving the World and Being Happy (The Computer Ager)
BeingHappy.info

*********************

It's not positive anymore! I just posted.

And the message has already been deleted by the PA Board Trolls.

Dee
www.brianhillanddeepower.com

Re: PA and NYT

>>Even books bought by the authors count!<<

No s**t. This is really despicable.

>>At the initiative of the New York Times<<

I'm sure this is literally true, but I'm also sure that the initiative was a phone call soliciting advertising. What false hopes this is going to stir. Talk about manipulation.

>>We will re-evaluate this marketing strategy after three months.<<

Translation: we'll check to see if there's been a spike in author-generated book sales. If not, the NY Times is history.

This reminds me of the Oprah come-on they did a while back, where they said they were going to promote bestselling PA books to Oprah's book club or something like that. Authors were scrambling to buy their own books then too.

- Victoria

Re: Anti-PA thread turned positive

<It's not positive anymore! I just posted.

And the message has already been deleted by the PA Board Trolls.>

Isn't that something? I had seen it and, before I could even comment on it, the Board Police had stamped it out. IMO, I didn't think that other forum did much to save PA's reputation, either. It was essentially one post, by one devotee. Sheesh.

Re: PA

Despicable? Yep.

Surprising? Alas...not at all.

Re: PA and NYT

<This reminds me of the Oprah come-on they did a while back, where they said they were going to promote bestselling PA books to Oprah's book club or something like that. Authors were scrambling to buy their own books then too.
- Victoria>

PA has a creative sales department, I'll give them that. If only they would divert some of that creativity toward selling BOOKS! This will have already indebted PA authors scrambling around trying to raise funds to get in on this "deal of a lifetime." It's truly despicable and sad.

Victoria, I think you'll make a fine moderator of this board, by the way. Kudos!

Re: Anti-PA thread turned positive

And, as you'd expect, that devotee was someone whose book hasn't yet come out.

Re: PA and NYT

For grins and giggles, I found the NYT ad rates for the Books section: 2004_Rate_Book_PDF_Books.pdf

I wonder if PA qualifies for the Small Press rate....

Re: and I'd like to buy a clue for $200, Alex...

Erm, maybe this doesn't concern me, but why does their letter to their authors sound like some cheap spam-mail? It's got this "Upgrade now and you might win this nifty cruise!"-tone to it, you know? I don't think I'd be able to stomach my publisher talking to me like I'm some daft little consumer they're trying to reel in.

I'd like to know if PA is really planning on expanding into Scandinavia. I know they're in Iceland already, but I seem to recall readng somewhere that they're aiming at the Scandinavian market. I don't know if they'd have much luck here, seeing as how the laws are a lot stricter. But it'd be fun to watch them try.

Re: PA and NYT

"Small Presses are defined as those Independent Publishers whose press runs do not exceed 8,000 copies per title."

Yes, I'd say that PA does qualify as a small press for the purposes of the NY Times.

So, the cost of each of those ads is $17,635 (though I wonder if they got a special introductory offer for the first three months...).

And... how convenient! PA's last special offer for their authors expired on 30 July (the celebratory one for announcing this Great Partnership with the New York Times).

So authors are getting a 30% discount on their books, plus shipping.

Lighting Source charges $0.013 per page, plus $0.90 per cover.

So ... a typical $19.95 PA book, 250 pages. Let's look. $4.15 per book from LSI.

Author pays: $13.965 plus shipping.

PA's profit per copy: $9.815 plus shipping fee - actual cost of shipping.

Break even point on this ad is 1,797 books sold to authors.

Number of authors required who will buy 100 copies to reach that break-even point: 18.

So, do you think that among PA's 5,000 happy authors you'll find 18 who will buy 100 copies this month to have a shot at that ad placement?

There are 5,711 PA titles listed on Amazon as of this evening. 18 is about 1/3 of one percent of those titles.

So ... even if less than 1% of PA authors go for this deal to the extent of popping for 100 copies, they've made their break-even.

Let's say 5,000 happy authors. Suppose 1% of them buy 100 copies this month that they wouldn't otherwise have bought. That's fifty happy authors, each providing $1,396.50 in profits (not counting shipping costs). That's $69,825 in profits. Minus the cost of the ad, $17,635, for a solid $52,190 in profits this month, just from this one promotional scheme. (More if the authors buy 200 copies each, or 500 copies each... just four authors buying five hundred copies of their own book (what's the matter with you, don't you believe in your own writing?) and PA's made their nut.)

Don't say that PA's marketing department doesn't know what it's doing.

But will this help PA's authors?

Well, if the books aren't in stores for the readers to buy, the readers won't buy them. The author has cases of books filling his attic -- but how are the people who read the New York Times going to find him to buy them?

And do you know why publishers generally don't buy ads in the New York Times for new writers? That's because ... the ads don't bring in enough sales to make it worthwhile. So these ads wouldn't bring in enough outside sales to pay for those purchases the authors made, even if the books were in stores.

This ad will make money for the publisher. I'm not talking about the ad in the Times. I'm talking about the email they just sent out.

Publisher sells books at inflated rates to own authors = vanity press. Just in case anyone missed that little detail.

Re: PA and NYT

PA's sales department is selling books. It's just that they have no qualms about doing all the selling to their authors.

Now we'll get to see false claims about PA books being on the NYT bestseller list. Of course, those won't be on THE NYT BESTSELLER LIST, but will be on a list in an ad on the NYT parading itself as PA's bestsellers. So, even if the ads don't bring in more than enough sales to break even, it will bring in a hundred or more writers.