Dear Mother of God... I'm Glad We're on Their Side

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greglondon

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Robert Toy said:

from the URL: Over the years tens of thousands or possibly hundreds of thousands of people were killed by Iraqi security forces

What it doesn't say is what the range of years are. We heavily supported Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war, so any killing during or before that time would have been considered "acceptable" to the Reagan administration as reflected by the Donald Rumsfeld handshake.

The only killings that can be used to justify invading Iraq would occur once we stopped supporting Saddam, so I'm looking for the death toll for civilians by Saddam from around 1989 and forward. Amnesty International puts the number at tens of thousands (with a possibility for hundreds of thousands) since the 1960's. that's about four decades for those numbers.

During the American occupation, we've seen hundreds of thousands of civilians die in the three years we've been there.

So, if anyone argues that Saddam was murdering civilians and we invaded Iraq to make the country a safer better place, the numbers say we've long since failed that mission and made the coutry far worse.
 
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Robert Toy said:
Hi billy watcha up to?

Trying to calm down from greg slandering my good name unless I wasn't one of the "neocon chickenhawks" he was referring to...:)...and then I'm going to watch the Ohio State/Michigan game.

How about you, good sir?
 
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greglondon said:
So, if anyone argues that Saddam was murdering civilians and we invaded Iraq to make the country a safer better place, the numbers say we've long since failed that mission and made the coutry far worse.

:Shrug:
"Sorry, Iraq."
 

Robert Toy

billythrilly7th said:
Trying to calm down from greg slandering my good name unless I wasn't one of the "neocon chickenhawks" he was referring to...:)...and then I'm going to watch the Ohio State/Michigan game.

How about you, good sir?
Just taking a break from my WIP. But I am getting a bit tired of this little thread, so I think I'll sign off. Go watch the game and have a beer on me. :D

Thank you
 
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Robert Toy said:
Just taking a break from my WIP. But I am getting a bit tired of this little thread, so I think I'll sign off. Go watch the game and have a beer on me. :D

Thank you

I shall.

Thrilly Out!
:)
 

greglondon

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robeiae said:
Spin, wheel! Spin! Who, on this board, said it's definitely 50K? Come on, let's see the evidence.

Try reading my post one more time

But on this board, last time we tried something liek that, we discussed the number of civilian casualties in Iraq since the US invaded. All the neocon chickenhawks keep saying its 50k no matter what evidence is brought forth. Iraq's new democratically elected government says the number is probably more like 150k. And another study says its probably 400k-800k.


Did Iraq's new democratically elected government say anything in our discussion? No.

Did the folks who did the 400k-800k study come into our thread and say anything in our discussion? No.

And when I said the neocon chickenhawks, I was specifically talking about white house administration estimates that say the death toll is 50k.


In short, you read it wrong. Unles of course, you claim that Iraq's new democratically elected government did actually show up on Absolute Write and engage in our previous conversation.

You took the Rorsharch test and turned "neocon chickenhawks" into a reference to you. I was talking about the Bush administration. Every reference in my list is to some external source for civilian death tolls.

I await your acknowledgement of your misunderstanding here.

I won't hold my breath.
 
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greglondon

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billythrilly7th said:
Trying to calm down from greg slandering my good name unless I wasn't one of the "neocon chickenhawks" he was referring to...:)...

Billy, did you say something?

what's that?

You were wr-wr-wr-wr ???

You were wrong? is that what you're trying to say?

It's OK. I already knew that.
 
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greglondon said:
I await your acknowledgement of your misunderstanding here.

I won't hold my breath.

You see Greg, one of the great things about being a mature man is being big enough to say "Ooops" and "Sorry, I guess I made a mistake."

If you were referring to people in the administration and not posters on AW....

Then ooops, sorry, I guess I made a mistake.

I'm sure that you can see how that might have been misunderstood because of...

But on this board, last time we tried something liek that, we discussed the number of civilian casualties in Iraq since the US invaded. All the neocon chickenhawks keep saying its 50k no matter what evidence is brought forth.

..how quickly you went from "But on this board" to "All the neocon...keep saying."

I'm sure you can see that.

Thank you. Good day.
 
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greglondon

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Originally Posted by greglondon
So, if anyone argues that Saddam was murdering civilians and we invaded Iraq to make the country a safer better place, the numbers say we've long since failed that mission and made the coutry far worse.

billythrilly7th said:
:Shrug:
"Sorry, Iraq."

Hey billy, so does that mean you accept this fact as true to the point that you're willing to apologize for it?

You acknowledge that our invasion has made the country far worse than it was under Saddam?

You acknowledge that we've caused the deaths of more civilians in three years of occupation than Saddam killed in the 14 years from 1989-2003?
 
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greglondon said:
It's OK. I already knew that.

Try and be a little clearer in your posts so we can avoid misunderstandings like this in the future.

Sadly, robieae and I aren't mind readers and go only with what's on the written page.

Good luck in fixing this problem.
:)
 
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greglondon said:
Hey billy, so does that mean you accept this fact as true to the point that you're willing to apologize for it?

You acknowledge that our invasion has made the country far worse than it was under Saddam?

You acknowledge that we've caused the deaths of more civilians in three years of occupation than Saddam killed in the 14 years from 1989-2003?

No. I really just do this :Shrug: 'cause I find it funny.

:ROFL:

IRAG and ROADHOUSE
"It's gonna get worse before it gets better."
Dalton
Patrick Swayze
 

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billythrilly7th said:
You see Greg, one of the great things about being a mature man is being big enough to say "Ooops" and "Sorry, I guess I made a mistake."

Billy, I can see how the misunderstanding arose. But if you were being mature about it, you wouldn't have posted something as condescending as this:

I'll take your silence as an admission of guilt ... I hope you've learned a good lesson about making slanderous, unsubstantiated statements. And I hope it makes you a better poster in the future.

or this

Try and be a little clearer in your posts so we can avoid misunderstandings like this in the future. Sadly, robieae and I aren't mind readers and go only go with what's on the written page. Good luck in fixing this problem.

And if you went "with what's on the written page", you would have noticed "Iraq's new democratically elected government" and went with that too, instead of just jumping to conclusions and being a pain about it.
 

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billythrilly7th said:
No. I really just do this :Shrug: 'cause I find it funny.

And that's a mature response to discussing civilian deaths in Iraq?

Thanks for explaining. Because I was starting to think you were acknowledging we've made a mistake in Iraq, and then maybe I would have started taking you seriously again.
 
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greglondon said:
Billy, I can see how the misunderstanding arose. But if you were being mature about it, you wouldn't have posted something as condescending as this:

A. Thank you.
B. You seem to be having a problem in figuring out when I'm being serious and when I have my tongue in cheek and/or are joking.

:Shrug:
 
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greglondon said:
And that's a mature response to discussing civilian deaths in Iraq?

Thanks for explaining. Because I was starting to think you were acknowledging we've made a mistake in Iraq, and then maybe I would have started taking you seriously again.

Please don't ever do that.

And don't mistake the ability to be mature and say "Sorry" with overall maturity. BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

Thank you.
:D

I'm going to watch the football game.

"Good day, sir!"
Willy Wonka
 

robeiae

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greglondon said:
Try reading my post one more time
Okay, I did.

You said:

"dclary posted a URL to an article. I read the article. I quoted one line from the article. If you would like to investigate the war, then we can accumulate a bunch of different sources, get their numbers for death tolls for the war, and then try to figure out what the real numbers probably were.

But on this board, last time we tried something liek that, we discussed the number of civilian casualties in Iraq since the US invaded. All the neocon chickenhawks keep saying its 50k no matter what evidence is brought forth. Iraq's new democratically elected government says the number is probably more like 150k. And another study says its probably 400k-800k."


Now, you read it. What does that "but" in the second paragraph signify, if not an exception as to why your proposal to Robert in the first paragraph will be useless or less than helpful? Further, you went from "we discussed X" into "all the neocon chickenhawks said Y." There is no reason to assume you weren't intending the latter to be a part of the "we." And then there are your repeated claims about Kool-aid drinkers...Really, I don't see why any reasonable person wouldn't assume you weren't including some people here in your "all the neocon chickenhawks" generalization. And note that only this group is a generalization. "Iraq's new democratically elected government" and "another study" are specific. So, at the very least, who are "all the neocon chickenhawks"? And please show me where each and every one of that group has said "50,000 no matter what," or something along those lines.

Having said all that, I'm happy to accept that you wanted to refer only to White House Officials with the label "ALL neocon chickenhawks" and mistakenly put the word "all" in there. And I'm happy to accept that you didn't really mean to put the word "but" at the beginning of the second paragraph. It's all good.
 
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Robert Toy

?tcaf as’ti ysa dna ssa ym fo tuo rebmun a llup tsuj I fi tuoba woh yakO
 

Robert Toy

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Very mature. I commend you both. It must be in the name: anything starting with Rob.
Is that a lion trying to eat a pumpkin?
 

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Actually, a big poopoo on you and the offended neocon chickenhawks for derailing a thread on the bomb-a$$iest weapons we've seen since Jesse Ventura's rail-gun in Predator.
 

greglondon

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dclary said:
Actually, a big poopoo on you and the offended neocon chickenhawks for derailing a thread on the bomb-a$$iest weapons we've seen since Jesse Ventura's rail-gun in Predator.

Dude, all they did was reinvent the Red Bee, Number 9 in the lamest superheroes of all time. His major weapon? A trained bee named michael that he stored in his belt buckle. You wanna compare that to ol' painless?

http://www.popcultureaddict.com/comicbooks/lamestsuperheroes.htm

and besides, it was a minigun or powered gatlin gun, not a railgun.
 

Robert Toy

greglondon said:
who would have thunk it.
the thing that derails an entire thread is that a couple of
right wingers got their feelings hurt because they thought
some bleeding heart called them a neocon chickenhawk.

oh the in human manatees.
I hope you are not including me as a right-winger with hurt feelings.
I’m a middle of the road sociopath, with a nasty habit of speaking his mind in short, clearly understood terms. :D
 
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