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[Publicity] PR Web

Bo Sullivan

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I used PR Web to advertise my two books and I have found an endless stream of less than desirable threads appearing on the Web and it is so difficult to get them removed. I complained to PR Web but they still use my old press releases and distribute them. I paid for the advertising but I cannot say it helped to sell my books in any way.
 

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It depends

James D. Macdonald said:
PR Web is essentially useless, at least for promoting books.

Some niche markets use PRweb for releases. Nudists are one group. You can find some interesting news about nudism on the PRweb. In this case, it helped my sales.

that said, it is not the same as sendonmg out a press release that becomes picked up from the wires.

If you know people in your niche receive tickles when news in that catagory is sent, you may do well. Otherwise, it is like having only one two way radio.
 

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What Duped is talking about (I think):

Some websites you wouldn't want to be associated with (porno, for example), take PR Web press releases and put them on a web page somewhere (this is to get Google hits). Those pages are designed to instantly forward anyone who clicks on them in Google over to the porno site.

Thing is, once you've sent out a release, others can do with it as they will.
 

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PRWeb as a Promotional Tool for Writers...

Hi All,

Just a couple of coments in regards to this thread, and to give some additional insights on PRWeb and their integrity:

1) I've been using the PRWeb platform to promote books and software (two of the top NY Times besetseller marketers use PRWeb as their exclusive online press release channel, and do 2-3 releases per week while they are promoting a title. Both these folks are of the highest integrity, and neither condones adult content). If you want more info specifically on them, please feel free to email me. You can also Google "Waiting for your Cat to Bark" and see one of the promotions that successfully garnered very nice coverage in the Wall Street Journal.

2) David McInnis, CEO and Founder of PRWeb, is very opposed to adult content, and does not allow ANY adult content to be promoted through PRWeb. The company turns away thousands in revenue a month from users who would like to use PRWeb to promote their adult sites.

3) If you get an opportunity to visit WebProWorld.com or other top web development boards, you'll see that PRWeb is used extensively to help get web sites, pages and specific web content indexed by Google, Yahoo! and other search engines. Since the majority of web searches are done through those engines, PRWeb has established agreements for PRWeb content to show up on their news pages, and within search results.

4) I sell many thousands of dollars in software and eBooks using PRWeb as my primary marketing resource. I get picked up in traditional press once or twice per quarter, but that's not my main objective with PRWeb: it's Online Visibility. (If you want to get a journalists attention, contact them. if you have a good product and a story angle, you'll get some attention. That's not the primary purpose of online PR).

5) Third-party sites will grab PRWeb's RSS feeds (which are free) to pull content into their sites that they use to attract search engine and viewer traffic. It's a source of free content to them. PRWeb cannot tell you who pulls their RSS feeds, nor who pulls secondary RSS feeds (not directly from PRWeb, but from legal and illegal syndication of PRWeb content).

6) Before throwing stones, it might be valuable to:
a. Call the company and ask about their policies.
b. Learn how to use their system to promote your works. There are many useful tips around that can make them your very best friend.
c. Ask me. I've been a business advisor to the company for a couple of years, and in the hundreds of companies I've worked with since 1986, they are one of the best examples of a high-integrity, well run and leading edge business. They do the right things, the right way.
d. If not, they fix it. They return thousands of dollars every day to people who's press releases do not meet the editorial guidelines of PRWeb. No compromise.

OK, I've stepped OFF my soapbox, and hope you'll take a moment to look at how content is disseminated on the web, and what PRWeb's role in it might be. I believe you'll find that they do a great job of what they are paid to do for you... and that anytime you provide a leading web service, you'll find 3rd parties taking advantage of it.

Need more info? Please email me, or post a comment. I'll gladly respond within this thread, or personally if that's more appropriate.

Best of success in your book promotions, and thanks for the opportunity to share these views.

Warm regards,
ME
 

soloset

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I have a few questions for you, eAgent. Do you have any affiliations with PRWeb outside of your own marketing efforts?

eAgent said:
1) I've been using the PRWeb platform to promote books and software (two of the top NY Times besetseller marketers use PRWeb as their exclusive online press release channel, and do 2-3 releases per week while they are promoting a title. Both these folks are of the highest integrity, and neither condones adult content).

I'm not familiar with the phrase "top NY Times bestseller marketer". What does this mean?

eAgent said:
4) I sell many thousands of dollars in software and eBooks using PRWeb as my primary marketing resource. I get picked up in traditional press once or twice per quarter, but that's not my main objective with PRWeb: it's Online Visibility.

By "picked up in traditional press" do you mean "someone at a newspaper does an article on you"?

Do you happen to have any statistics, say, for how useful this company's services are for self-pubbed authors who are trying to sell their books?
 

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PRWeb Statistics...

Hi Soloset,

Please find my responses within yours, below.

Warm regards,
ME

I have a few questions for you, eAgent. Do you have any affiliations with PRWeb outside of your own marketing efforts?
ME: I'm on the Advisory Board. I've been a user of their platform since early 1998. Early 2003 I began using the platform with an eye toward SEO (Search Engine Optimization) as my Pay Per Click campaigns were costing upwards of $3,000 per month, and we were not performing nearly as well as I would have liked.

Within 6 weeks of using PRWeb, we were able to cut our online advertising costs in half, and use 50% of the savings toward PRWeb press release distribution.

12 weeks into the program we chopped our online ad campaign budget again, and put another 50% of the savings toward online PR.

The client tripled his sales in that 12 weeks. By 5 months we have 65,000 web sites linking to us, and sales were 700% above over when I started the campaign.

How I met PRWeb: I've founded 9 companies, and sold 6 of them since 1986. I was "hacking" the PRWeb process in 2003 when I received a call from the founder (at 2:30 or 3AM, immediately following a submission I'd made).

We had a great chat, and a short time later he but a block in the system fault I'd been using. We laugh about it now, but at the time, it was a serious flaw that I was taking advantage of to save time and money rewriting releases (but it was not so good for the integrity of PRWeb).

I then wrote an ebook and web site to share my understanding of the company's technology and how to create optimized online PR. 6 months later the company asked me to join their board (I declined a job offer, which was not one of my smartest moves... but an entrepreneur is an entrepreneur!). My experience in building and selling companies was the initial draw, as well as truly using the PRWeb platform to the limit. What they have is truly special and unique in the web space, and totally unique in the PR space.


I'm not familiar with the phrase "top NY Times bestseller marketer". What does this mean?
ME: This means that either of these folks can take a potentially good book and ensure that it makes the NY Times Bestseller list. They do it through creative marketing and understanding how the listings work, and then working the PR (on and offline) the channels (bookstores) and the relationships (credible testimonials for your book), as well as other techniques.

There are fixed factors that are at work in regards to who makes the list. If you approach those factors systematically, you will be successful in getting visibility on The List(s) that matter to your readership.

Keep in mind that the NY Times list does not require a ton of books to be sold. A small vanity publishing run of your work is more than enough, if you get sales in the right areas, and get them at the right time.



By "picked up in traditional press" do you mean "someone at a newspaper does an article on you"?

ME: Yes. Any time traditional media (newspaper, periodical, TV, radio) does a review. If you read my blog on PR Secrets, you'll see some of the maxims me and my team live by in terms of PR, events and such.

Keep in mind: traditional media pickups are great. They provide nice filler and third-party credibility for you. But if you guage the traffic and results you receive from them, most of the time they create a spike, with a rapid falling-off of results.

My clients are not in the game for ego satisfaction. We focus them on long term climbing sales in the markets they best address. If we lived from event to event, we'd all burn-out within a few months, and we'd be backwards in the checkbook.

Go for long-term sustainable results, and layer these results to gain the kinds of sales and media momentum you're looking for (unless you are going for that "invisibility" position, in which case, hide!...;-).

Do you happen to have any statistics, say, for how useful this company's services are for self-pubbed authors who are trying to sell their books? ME: I have lots of statistics, and you can download a PDF of some case studies I did on a few of our RichContent clients. We have more coming, and you can visit my PRSecrets site for more updates (check out the recent $1.1 billion waterpark press, and the client's response).

My client's range from Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to my own software firm, a pool fence manufacturer to a niche sporting goods manufacturer. We've done it all in terms of promotion in the last 20 years.

As for book promotion: Yes, it's a great tool to get online visibility and results. If you take a portion of each chapter of your book, turn it into a press release, focus on a top keyword in your category (a keyword is a word or phrase people use to find your type of book on Google or Yahoo), and make sure you have good Keyword Density (go here to check these elements for free: WordTracker. And to see what people are paying for specific keywords, go here: Yahoo PPC Costs), you will eventually dominate your market.

Let me know if you find any of this useful. And I'll get with the book marketing guys and do some interviews and case studies. As soon as they're ready, I'll post them here for you and the other Watercooler folks.

Warm regards,
ME
 

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I can see that this might be effective for nonfiction, but I can't imagine it working for most fiction. The market for fiction is just too diffuse.

It also sounds as if you use PRweb as just one aspect of an integrated approach. However, many people who use it view it as their main marketing strategy.

- Victoria
 

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PRWeb as Primary Marketing Approach... and Fiction marketing...

victoriastrauss said:
I can see that this might be effective for nonfiction, but I can't imagine it working for most fiction. The market for fiction is just too diffuse.

It also sounds as if you use PRweb as just one aspect of an integrated approach. However, many people who use it view it as their main marketing strategy.

- Victoria
Hi Victoria,
First, I use PRWeb as my PRIMARY marketing approach, but not my only one. I get the most bang for the buck using PRWeb, and I know how to tweak the platform to make it do my bidding (anyone can do that, and it's a very forgiving system, so mistakes don't hurt you, and you can re-edit and correct them later... I once had to modify 35 press releases to satisfy a client change, and it took less than 5 hours).

Anyone who uses just one marketing approach is sorely limiting their chances for success. PRWeb+Articles+Forums+Blogs+PPC+Web Site SEO+Reviews+Channel Development+Reps+WOM (Word of Mouth)+Book Signings+Imagination make a more complete book marketing strategy.

As for using PRWeb to market non-fiction: This is clearly a paradigm shift for many here, but if you're looking to drive search results to your book; whether you're on Amazon.com, your own site, that of your publisher, or all 3, you still get results with PReb.

Let's get a bit of a tighter reign on the Keyword issue: What phrases are unique to your genre'?

Now, find the top 10 that people use to search for those books (go to Amazon.com and see what "recommended" titles come up when you search for competing books).

Those are keyworded in the Amazon.com system (I know; I own an Amazon store). Now, choose the ones that apply to your book, and build your media campaign (press release, attachments, PDF's, image titles, etc...) and you'll see results, I assure you.

Gotta' go get some dinner, but let me know if you need more understanding here. I've not found a product or service that couldn't be marketed with PRWeb as a large component of the strategy. If you visit my site, RichContent.com, you'll see that we address every area of business, and many of Writing. PRWeb is our tool of choice (our Screenwriting and Fiction Writing software are two big sellers for us).

Warm regards,
ME
 

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Quick, note:

Hi Victoria,

Being new to the Author side of the industry, I was not aware there were so many scams around! I haven't dug seep into your blog or sites yet, but I see that that seems to be a real issue in the industry.

We've seen the same thing in Venture Capital, and in IPO's (taking companies public). The ratio of legitimate players and just plain crooks is something like 1 in 7 or so. Scary.

Nice to see your advocacy. I'll learn more as I have time to peruse your materials.

Warm regards,
ME
 

Bo Sullivan

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PR Web were paid for advertising my books and some of the advertisements were picked up as James MacDonald said, by unscrupulous outlets, which is totally unacceptable. If PR Web is aware that this happens then they should inform the advertiser in advance and before they part with cash, so that a decision can be made as to whether to advertise on their website or not as the case may be.
 

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eAgent said:
Nice to see your advocacy. I'll learn more as I have time to peruse your materials.
Thanks, Mark. There are scams everywhere! They vary in the details, but the mindset that goes with them seems to be remarkably similar, no matter what field the scammer is in.

- Victoria
 

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I appreciate your response, thank you. This does sound as if it might be a useful part of a well-developed marketing plan.

I'm not sure I consider the issue of content ending up on adult sites to be the fault of PRWeb, although if it's a rampant problem they should definitely disclose it. Any content you put on the internet is at risk of being plastered places you don't want it to be; those spam guys don't care HOW they get it.

Oh, and I'd still like to believe that bestsellers are made by good writing and public acclaim (or at least some tiny panel of well-read experts somewhere) so please don't disabuse me of the notion. ;)
 

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PRWeb, Bestsellers and Spam...

soloset said:
I appreciate your response, thank you. This does sound as if it might be a useful part of a well-developed marketing plan.
ME: Thanks, Tam.

I'm sort of the anti-sales guy when it comes to marketing. I've always tried to create a compelling message that embodies the heart of the subject, and let as many folks know about it as possible. If they pick it up, I always hope that they receive more value than I declared in my marcom.

I'm not sure I consider the issue of content ending up on adult sites to be the fault of PRWeb, although if it's a rampant problem they should definitely disclose it. Any content you put on the internet is at risk of being plastered places you don't want it to be; those spam guys don't care HOW they get it.
ME: PRWeb continues to make inroads into clearning bad site pickups, blocking certain IP addresses from pulling content... it's a daily battle, and PRWeb does much better than most content distribution players in controlling abuse. I've personally seen David McInnis, the founder, crack-open the PRWeb platform and block an IP he felt was suspicious or potentially abusive. He also makes personal connection with executives and professionals who he believes might want to know about a specific release.

Also: An editor reads and OK's every release on PRWeb. Checking grammar, spelling, tone and quality of each release is a critical factor in the success of their clients, and subsequently, in the success of the company.

soloset said:
Oh, and I'd still like to believe that bestsellers are made by good writing and public acclaim (or at least some tiny panel of well-read experts somewhere) so please don't disabuse me of the notion. ;)
ME: Oh yeah!

You have to have a great message, well presented, and good connections to pull off a winner in the literary field. How many great books are never discovered until it's too late?

I connected with Mark Moskowitz (the man who single-handedly ressurected "Stones of Summer" by Dow Mossman) last year after watching his film. It gives you, the author a much greater feel for the book and what it takes to make the list, and keep even a great book in circulation.

I HIGHLY recommend that we (you and I and all of us who write with passion) spend some time, and contribute where you can. In the end, this is what will keep our children in great literature and keep the books at the Big Box stores from becoming drivel.

And best of success on your bestseller!

Warm regards,
ME
 

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soloset said:
I'm not sure I consider the issue of content ending up on adult sites to be the fault of PRWeb, although if it's a rampant problem they should definitely disclose it. Any content you put on the internet is at risk of being plastered places you don't want it to be; those spam guys don't care HOW they get it.
It reminds me of those spammers that copy articles or e-texts from the web and then use the text to hide their links and "fool" content filters. It's weird to see spam containing text from books like Ivanhoe. But you can't blame Project Gutenberg when that happens.

I've run into something like this on websites as well -- I think it's sometimes called "hijacking" search results. There's a cute name for it, but I forget what it is.

It seems to me that PRWeb is doign what it can to prevent this from happening, which is cool. :D And knowing how relentless the spammers and search hackers are, it must be a neverending battle for them. I feel for them.
:cry:
 

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I feel for myself and my book about Sir Walter Raleigh because my press releases ended up, courtesy of PR Web enhancing the Web Site of "Iritated Penesis"; the book took 9 years of research and 6 years to write. I am not AMUSED.

Furthermore I have to say that PR Web encouraged me, as a paying participant of their business, to choose outlets for my press releases of which there were many, which came in the form of innocent short stories or advertisements for my two history books, but however we try to condone their treatment of web traffic, if they sell the advertisements to porn dealers then they are definitely doing something WRONG and it needs to be put RIGHT!

I chose one outlet from PR Web which I would tell all writers to beware of, and that was the Medical field, because, although it is obvious to me now, medical can mean ANYTHING at all, and my innocent press release about how the Elizabethans cleaned their teeth in the fifteeth century ended up gracing the internet for all sorts of gross content and to see my words mingled with the filth that it might entice brings tears to my eyes.

Just BEWARE OF PR WEB. That is all I am saying. I wish I could have read an advert like this when my first book was released because if I had, I would not have the worry now of seeing content on the internet which embarrasses me totally and the headache of how to get it removed before anyone I know reads it.

My portrait drawings of the French Royal family which appear in my first hisotry book are portrayed and advertised as topless women. My drawings took me 20 plus hours each to draw and I do not take kindly to such a disgusting portrayal of my work.
 

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Duped said:
...but however we try to condone their treatment of web traffic, if they sell the advertisements to porn dealers then they are definitely doing something WRONG and it needs to be put RIGHT!
I could be wrong here, but I don't believe they are selling anything to porn sites. Why would they? It would damage their reputation. Keep in mind that porn sites are notorious for stealing content from others. (They steal it from each other, after all.) All they have to do is copy the article and paste it on their site -- without your permission and without the permission of PRweb. You are probably angry at the wrong people here.

Remember that this sort of thing happens on-line all the time. I wrote some articles for Writing-World.com, and I found one of them on a s*x story site. Of course, the owner of Writing-World never gave them the permission to do this! I sent e-mail to the current owners of the site (sending copies of the e-mail to their ISP), and I got them to take it down. You can find articles all over the Web about how to contact sites about using your content without permission. I'm not sure if this would work in the case of a porn site, however. :(
 

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Duped said:
I chose one outlet from PR Web which I would tell all writers to beware of, and that was the Medical field, because, although it is obvious to me now, medical can mean ANYTHING at all, and my innocent press release about how the Elizabethans cleaned their teeth in the fifteeth centuhry ended up gracing the internet for all sorts of gross content and to see my words mingled with the filth that it might entice brings tears to my eyes.

Isn't the audience interested in " how the Elizabethans cleaned their teeth in the fifteeth centuhry" kinda small?


eAgent said:
Also: An editor reads and OK's every release on PRWeb. Checking grammar, spelling, tone and quality of each release is a critical factor in the success of their clients, and subsequently, in the success of the company.

According to their site, PR Web has posted "5524 news releases over the past 14 days." Are you saying that each of them were fully vetted and edited?
 
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PRWeb vetting press releases... and PR spam...

According to their site, PR Web has posted "5524 news releases over the past 14 days." Are you saying that each of them were fully vetted and edited?
ME: Yes. The company has 26 full-time editors in house, staffed 24 hours a day.

They have a press release template that is used as the initial reference piece. Each press release is then checked by an editor (usually a graduate of the Journalism Department of Washington State University, Bellingham. PRWeb provides an endowment to the college and grabs the cream of the crop as they graduate. They currently add an editor every 30 days or so).

If the release fails to meet their criteria, an email is sent to the author letting them know what areas need to be updated in order to meet editorial guidelines. Adult content and outright advertising are flagged and rejected immediately, with a note as to why.

They then rate the PR on a 1-5 scale, 5 being the best in meeting their guidelines as well as the positioning of good PR.

I would be very interested in seeing some examples of the abuse being mentioned in this thread. I can get it to the management of PRWeb and bring it up as a topic to address. If these folks can develop a solution, they will.

When I Google my press release headlines (which are distributed in 7-10 different distribution categories), I rarely if ever find them in Adult content sites. In fact, I can't think of one at the moment (I'll do a check after this post to validate that). I do from 3-10 releases per week between my own products and client work. Each release returns from 175 to 500 results when I do a title search in Google, and 300-1000 in Yahoo search results. I also see them in Google and Yahoo News.

Any examples are much appreciated (you can send me links, or screen shots, whichever works best for you).

Much appreciated.

I've also asked the CEO to give me an idea of the number of Comment Spam and blocked IP addresses the company manages per week. I know the combined total is in the thousands, maybe more than 10,000. They are certainly not sitting on their hands!

Thanks again, and I look forward to hearing back from you.

Warm regards,
ME
 

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AnnMarble is absolutely correct. Send a note to the site using your material. If you are the copyright holder (or an authorized representative) you can file a DMCA notice. In most cases, a note to the offending party copied to their ISP will do the trick. If you don't hold the copyright on the material, then get whoever does hold the copyright to do it. Chances are they don't want their stuff on those sites either.
 

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The spammer-sites come and go. Next time I see one I'll tell you.

They don't just draw their material from PRWeb. They get it from lots of places; free article sites and everywhere else. It's just a trap to get people to click, then dump the folks who were looking for genuine information into the site they're really promoting.
 

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eAgent said:
ME: Yes. The company has 26 full-time editors in house, staffed 24 hours a day.

They have a press release template that is used as the initial reference piece. Each press release is then checked by an editor (usually a graduate of the Journalism Department of Washington State University, Bellingham. PRWeb provides an endowment to the college and grabs the cream of the crop as they graduate. They currently add an editor every 30 days or so).

That's good to know. Respectfully though, I don't think the "cream of the crop" grads want to spend their time editing press releases in Bellingham.

It sounds like a decent entry-level job--nothing more.
 

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James D. Macdonald said:
The spammer-sites come and go. Next time I see one I'll tell you.

They don't just draw their material from PRWeb. They get it from lots of places; free article sites and everywhere else. It's just a trap to get people to click, then dump the folks who were looking for genuine information into the site they're really promoting.

An astounding number of people are doing this for ad revenue. There's a huge black hat SEO community devoted to gaming the search engines.

The silver lining in this dark cloud is that there are white hat SEOs who will pay decent money for good content.

(Definition time: SEO = Search Engine Optimzation.)
 

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PRWeb, Quality of Life, and Being an Editor in Bellingham...

Sassenach said:
That's good to know. Respectfully though, I don't think the "cream of the crop" grads want to spend their time editing press releases in Bellingham.

It sounds like a decent entry-level job--nothing more.
ME: I can understand your position, and appreciate your view.

Here's the deal: Bellingham, WA is a gorgeous place to live, with ocean views (all the way to the San Juan Islands and Canada) and Mt. Baker within 45 minutes. Some of the best NW hiking, affordable living and an airport that flies to Canada, Utah, Seattle and is expanding quickly.

Now, as an entrepreneur nine-times over, I don't think ANY job is worth more than the experience and relationships (my personal take). I respect great employees, and have some working for me. They are a great blessing, and I love that they thrive in doing their schtick on my payroll. They make my life much better, and do things I might never have thought of... some of it's even GOOD stuff!

David McInnis and crew at PRWeb provide a best-in-class work environment, support the heck out of their people, provide great perks, flextime, and think about this: Every press release is a learning experience: what's new, who might be cool to work with, bleeding-edge technologies, etc...

You're right: to many, it might be an entry-level job. But if you talk to Kathy (previously a journalist, then editor of an east-coast paper), or Tom, one of the "graveshift" editors, and you'd find that they call PRWeb "home".

Finding good places to work where the CEO knows your name and those of your family, gives you a 5-figure bonus when he sells the company, and allows you to thrive and follow (even supports) your personal dreams... that's more than an "entry level job" my friend.

That's a "Top-10 Places to Work in Washington" sort of opportunity.

Just my two cents.

Warm regards,
ME