The AW Amazon Store
Buy books by AWers

 

Welcome to the AbsoluteWrite Water Cooler! Please read The Newbie Guide To Absolute Write

Page 1 of 19 123456711 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 466

Thread: Muslims upset about profiling - So??

  1. #1
    practical experience, FTW erika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    170

    Muslims upset about profiling - So??

    AP reports that Muslim groups are concerned about an increase in profiling. Smacks of common sense if you ask me.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060823...s_060823224824
    Erika
    "I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a good bottle of port would do that." C.S. Lewis

  2. #2
    Docking Bay 94 TheGaffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Slightly north of where I was
    Posts
    3,106
    Quote Originally Posted by erika
    AP reports that Muslim groups are concerned about an increase in profiling. Smacks of common sense if you ask me.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060823...s_060823224824
    Because "profiling," so to speak, has to be smarter than simply pulling out everyone who is Muslim, or looks Arab. If anything we've seen terrorists adapt. Jose Padilla wasn't an Arab; Richard Reid was a British man and didn't look Arab either. Those idiots in Miami certainly weren't either. This is not common sense, it's basic stupidity is what it is. It inflames a population of people -- of which there's a ton in America who are not terrorists -- without doing the proper things to get at the terrorists who really want to harm people.

    What do you do - grab everyone who's wearing hijab? The terrorists would respond and look differently, dress differently, recruit people who don't look like the stereotype. From what I hear Al-Qaeda is trying to recruit people from Chechnya -- they look more Russian (and hence, white) than anything else. So then what? Put all white people on the list? And then after Muslims from Sudan are recruited, all the blacks. And finally until everyone's profiled until you're left with 5-year-olds and grandmas.

    Israel profiles, but they profile by behavior, not by looks. It's worked -- no hijackings of an El Al flight in 35+ years or whatever it is (I'd have to look it up). But that's where profiling has to go - it has to be smarter than simply grabbing everyone of one group. Behavior, criminal records, associations, et al. That's the proper way to go about this.
    ---------------------------------


    I took the rejection pledge.

    2006 pledge: queries -- 27/40.

    2007 Pledge:
    To finish first draft of WIP. 362 pgs of an estimated 362 pgs. Finished. ROCK AND ROLL!!!
    To send out 40 queries for the other completed WIP.
    Currently: 0/40. This didn't happen.


    2008 Pledge:
    To change tons of diapers. In progress.
    To edit/do first rewrite in 2007's WIP.
    Also, maybe to get like 15 queries out, but it won't be easy.




    "Anybody can make up statistics to prove their point. 14% of all people know that." -- Homer Simpson

  3. #3
    practical experience, FTW erika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGaffer
    Israel profiles, but they profile by behavior, not by looks. It's worked -- no hijackings of an El Al flight in 35+ years or whatever it is (I'd have to look it up). But that's where profiling has to go - it has to be smarter than simply grabbing everyone of one group. Behavior, criminal records, associations, et al. That's the proper way to go about this.
    Right, so anyone who's Muslim, correct? Let me go farther. Anyone who attends a Mosque should be suspect. That's profiling based on behavior and it's damn smart.
    Erika
    "I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a good bottle of port would do that." C.S. Lewis

  4. #4
    practical experience, FTW
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,230
    I'm with The Gaffer. Behavioral profiling is the way to go. Racial or Religious profiling seems clumsy, innefective and needlesly offensive.

    Ah just read you second post Erika. Was that ironic offensivness?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by erika
    Right, so anyone who's Muslim, correct? Let me go farther. Anyone who attends a Mosque should be suspect. That's profiling based on behavior and it's damn smart.
    Not really, because that makes the premise that all Muslims support terrorism. There has to be more behavior involved than simply attending a mosque.

    I wonder how people would react if the government began profiling Jewish people, and pulling people out of synagogues.

  6. #6
    practical experience, FTW erika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    170
    I guess if Jewish people were trying to kill us all and their religion endorsed the extermination of anyone non-Jewish, many of us "mainstream" Americans would be fine with it.

    As it stands, last I checked, the Qran ain't exactly a nice lullaby about God's love. I think the angle is more, "All infidels must die." Oh and let's not forget about Muhammed's track record. Call me crazy, but it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.
    Erika
    "I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a good bottle of port would do that." C.S. Lewis

  7. #7
    practical experience, FTW
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,230
    Quote Originally Posted by erika
    I guess if Jewish people were trying to kill us all and their religion endorsed the extermination of anyone non-Jewish, many of us "mainstream" Americans would be fine with it.

    As it stands, last I checked, the Qran ain't exactly a nice lullaby about God's love. I think the angle is more, "All infidels must die." Oh and let's not forget about Muhammed's track record. Call me crazy, but it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.
    Wow.

    Just wow.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by erika
    I guess if Jewish people were trying to kill us all and their religion endorsed the extermination of anyone non-Jewish, many of us "mainstream" Americans would be fine with it.

    As it stands, last I checked, the Qran ain't exactly a nice lullaby about God's love. I think the angle is more, "All infidels must die." Oh and let's not forget about Muhammed's track record. Call me crazy, but it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.
    Much like the Christian bible, the Koran is interpreted in different ways by different groups. I would venture to guess that Muslims, on the whole, do not support terrorist acts, but rather that this is the behavior of a small but vocal minority. There are small militant groups of Christians who think that "nonbelievers" must die too, but they don't speak for all Christians, and most people are sensible enough to realize that.

    This is a pretty broad brush you're using to paint an entire population.

  9. #9
    Docking Bay 94 TheGaffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Slightly north of where I was
    Posts
    3,106
    Wow.

    Just wow.
    Yeah. Exactly.
    I guess if Jewish people were trying to kill us all and their religion endorsed the extermination of anyone non-Jewish, many of us "mainstream" Americans would be fine with it.
    Er, yeah, but what about us Jewish-Americans? We might have a problem, nu?
    ---------------------------------


    I took the rejection pledge.

    2006 pledge: queries -- 27/40.

    2007 Pledge:
    To finish first draft of WIP. 362 pgs of an estimated 362 pgs. Finished. ROCK AND ROLL!!!
    To send out 40 queries for the other completed WIP.
    Currently: 0/40. This didn't happen.


    2008 Pledge:
    To change tons of diapers. In progress.
    To edit/do first rewrite in 2007's WIP.
    Also, maybe to get like 15 queries out, but it won't be easy.




    "Anybody can make up statistics to prove their point. 14% of all people know that." -- Homer Simpson

  10. #10
    calm waters ahead Jean Marie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Somewhere in the recesses of my mind
    Posts
    6,333
    I haven't my coffee, yet.

    Ditto on ED's Wow.

    Erika, did you know that the Muslims denounce radical Islamists?

    *JM now getting coffee*
    Jean Marie
    www.jeanmariewiesen.com

    To thine own self be true



    current WIP (mystery/crime w/ supernatural twist)
    Completed at long last

    *Thanks, Jo*



  11. #11
    Docking Bay 94 TheGaffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Slightly north of where I was
    Posts
    3,106
    *JM now getting coffee*
    How do you take your coffee?
    ---------------------------------


    I took the rejection pledge.

    2006 pledge: queries -- 27/40.

    2007 Pledge:
    To finish first draft of WIP. 362 pgs of an estimated 362 pgs. Finished. ROCK AND ROLL!!!
    To send out 40 queries for the other completed WIP.
    Currently: 0/40. This didn't happen.


    2008 Pledge:
    To change tons of diapers. In progress.
    To edit/do first rewrite in 2007's WIP.
    Also, maybe to get like 15 queries out, but it won't be easy.




    "Anybody can make up statistics to prove their point. 14% of all people know that." -- Homer Simpson

  12. #12
    calm waters ahead Jean Marie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Somewhere in the recesses of my mind
    Posts
    6,333
    Milk, please
    Jean Marie
    www.jeanmariewiesen.com

    To thine own self be true



    current WIP (mystery/crime w/ supernatural twist)
    Completed at long last

    *Thanks, Jo*



  13. #13
    practical experience, FTW erika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    170
    Alright, let me be clear. A "good" Christian would follow the teachings of Jesus, love thine enemy, etc. A "good" Muslim would follow the teachings of Mohammed. Since Islam was founded on bloodshed and the Qran clearly states that if you can't convert people to Islam, you should exterminate them, I am left to logically conclude that a "good" Muslim would endorse "killing the infidel." Now those that rightly denounce such actions (who seem suspiciously reticent much of the time), are quite simply going against their founder's creed. This makes them a "bad" Muslim, albeit a good person.

    As for your contention that I'm being insensitive (which I'm sure is coming), I find it hypocritical that we can all rail against Christianity, but don't dare speak the truth about Islam. My argument is based solely on facts. Read the Qran for yourself. Read Mohammed's biography. The religion flourished only when he teamed up with bandits and pirates and began endorsing bloodshed. Read how he took a six-year old wife. This info comes from Muslim historians, by the way.
    Erika
    "I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a good bottle of port would do that." C.S. Lewis

  14. #14
    New kid, be gentle! Shiraz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    599
    I've had my coffee -

    Double wow. JM, you're too kind.
    Shiraz


    If we are honest, faithful, constructive and disciplined in our behavior, we will ultimately reap blessings for the good crops we have sown.

  15. #15
    (Graeme Cameron) three seven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Norfolk, England
    Posts
    3,084
    This can only end well...

  16. #16
    practical experience, FTW
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,230
    Quote Originally Posted by erika
    Alright, let me be clear. A "good" Christian would follow the teachings of Jesus, love thine enemy, etc. A "good" Muslim would follow the teachings of Mohammed. Since Islam was founded on bloodshed and the Qran clearly states that if you can't convert people to Islam, you should exterminate them, I am left to logically conclude that a "good" Muslim would endorse "killing the infidel." .
    Please direct me to the entry in Rednekipedia where it states this.

    However I can probably point out a few chapters in the Old Testament where much smiting was done, hip AND thigh!

    I'm not sure where you get your info from Erika. I haven't seen instructions for the extermination of non-muslims mentioned in the Koran. Maybe I missed it

  17. #17
    Docking Bay 94 TheGaffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Slightly north of where I was
    Posts
    3,106
    Erika, you're all over the map here, really. Simply put, the words of a 1,500-year-old book cannot be used as justification for a modern security policy of any kind.
    ---------------------------------


    I took the rejection pledge.

    2006 pledge: queries -- 27/40.

    2007 Pledge:
    To finish first draft of WIP. 362 pgs of an estimated 362 pgs. Finished. ROCK AND ROLL!!!
    To send out 40 queries for the other completed WIP.
    Currently: 0/40. This didn't happen.


    2008 Pledge:
    To change tons of diapers. In progress.
    To edit/do first rewrite in 2007's WIP.
    Also, maybe to get like 15 queries out, but it won't be easy.




    "Anybody can make up statistics to prove their point. 14% of all people know that." -- Homer Simpson

  18. #18
    calm waters ahead Jean Marie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Somewhere in the recesses of my mind
    Posts
    6,333
    Why do some insist on lumping others into a group? I wonder about this ailment. I fear it may be contagious. I fear there may be no vaccine.

    Being Christian, it's not something I would "rail" against. Just want to be clear on that.

    Anyone w/ any sense that whatever they believe/don't believe in, gave them, knows that Islam is evil. Hopefully, that same group knows that for the most part, Muslims have denounced radical Isalmists--I say again.

    Is there an echo in here?
    Jean Marie
    www.jeanmariewiesen.com

    To thine own self be true



    current WIP (mystery/crime w/ supernatural twist)
    Completed at long last

    *Thanks, Jo*



  19. #19
    Docking Bay 94 TheGaffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Slightly north of where I was
    Posts
    3,106
    Anyone w/ any sense that whatever they believe/don't believe in, gave them, knows that Islam is evil.
    I'm not sure what point you're making here. This sentence seems garbled.
    ---------------------------------


    I took the rejection pledge.

    2006 pledge: queries -- 27/40.

    2007 Pledge:
    To finish first draft of WIP. 362 pgs of an estimated 362 pgs. Finished. ROCK AND ROLL!!!
    To send out 40 queries for the other completed WIP.
    Currently: 0/40. This didn't happen.


    2008 Pledge:
    To change tons of diapers. In progress.
    To edit/do first rewrite in 2007's WIP.
    Also, maybe to get like 15 queries out, but it won't be easy.




    "Anybody can make up statistics to prove their point. 14% of all people know that." -- Homer Simpson

  20. #20
    practical experience, FTW
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,230
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGaffer
    Erika, you're all over the map here, really. Simply put, the words of a 1,500-year-old book cannot be used as justification for a modern security policy of any kind.
    Absolutely. Erika you have to look at the Koran in context. It is both vague and contradictory. Different passages refer to diffirent times in Muhammad's life.

    His early writings advocated peace. This was when he had a small band of followers.

    His later writings were more bloodthirsty. This was when he had a large band of followers and was in a position to fight. Laterly he was as much a military leader as a religious one.

    Now, the vast majority of Muslims recognise that much of the latter writings were of the times and do not have a place in the modern world. But there are always a few lunatics.

    I hear people calling for the extermination of Muslims. No doubt they have their followers also. Some of them probably calling themselves Christian. Does that mean anyone who is Christian should be tarred with the same brush?

    Does that mean all Pro-life supporters are terrorists because some of them, ironically enough, advocate murdering those involved with abortion?


    Here's an idea for religious profiling. Interview all Muslims before boarding a flight.
    Ask them ' If the Koran told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?'

    If they answer no, they can fly.


  21. #21
    Super Moderator SuperModerator Stew21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    lost in headspace
    Posts
    27,607
    What if I was to say that ever since Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols bombed Oklahoma City's Murrah Federal building using a Ryder truck full of explosives, all redneck white men shouldn't be allowed to rent Ryder Trucks and if they do they should be at the very least detained. Hell! Don't even wait until they try to rent a Ryder, just clean out a few trailer parks.

    Silly isn't it?

    Just can't profile that way, Erika. Just can't.
    Last edited by Stew21; 08-24-2006 at 07:14 PM.
    Sometimes I actually write stuff
    Like this...
    If a tree falls in Hesperides

  22. #22
    calm waters ahead Jean Marie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Somewhere in the recesses of my mind
    Posts
    6,333
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGaffer
    I'm not sure what point you're making here. This sentence seems garbled.
    Still working on my coffee. My cat kept me up--hunting something under my window, at which Kola barked, a lot.

    How's this.
    Anyone w/ god(s) given-sense knows that Islam is evil. In other words, what ever religion you happen to believe in, or not, anyone w/ sense knows that Islam is evil.

    *JM goes to make stronger coffee*
    Jean Marie
    www.jeanmariewiesen.com

    To thine own self be true



    current WIP (mystery/crime w/ supernatural twist)
    Completed at long last

    *Thanks, Jo*



  23. #23
    calm waters ahead Jean Marie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Somewhere in the recesses of my mind
    Posts
    6,333
    Quote Originally Posted by Stew21
    all redneck white men shouldn't be allowed to rent Ryder Trucks and if they do they should be at the very least detained. Hell! Don't even wait until they try to rent a Ryder, just clean out a few trailer parks.
    If they rent U-Haul, it's okay, though, right?
    Jean Marie
    www.jeanmariewiesen.com

    To thine own self be true



    current WIP (mystery/crime w/ supernatural twist)
    Completed at long last

    *Thanks, Jo*



  24. #24
    Cultivate the heart quality. - Ali AW Moderator Jcomp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    5,343
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Marie
    Still working on my coffee. My cat kept me up--hunting something under my window, at which Kola barked, a lot.

    How's this.
    Anyone w/ god(s) given-sense knows that Islam is evil. In other words, what ever religion you happen to believe in, or not, anyone w/ sense knows that Islam is evil.

    *JM goes to make stronger coffee*
    FYI. I think she's referring to militant, extremist Islam, before someone gets involved in a semantic argument. I, for one, must admit that all those different nouns (Islam, Muslim, Moslem, etc.) throw me loopy. I could be way off here, but if I'm not, I declare myself officially worthy of this blueberry muffin I'm about to eat...

  25. #25
    Docking Bay 94 TheGaffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Slightly north of where I was
    Posts
    3,106
    Anyone w/ god(s) given-sense knows that Islam is evil. In other words, what ever religion you happen to believe in, or not, anyone w/ sense knows that Islam is evil.
    Yeah, Jean, what are you referring to? Because Islam is a religion, and Muslims follow it. Which would put you in the position of agreeing with Erika. Is that what you're saying? I dont think tha'ts what you're saying.
    ---------------------------------


    I took the rejection pledge.

    2006 pledge: queries -- 27/40.

    2007 Pledge:
    To finish first draft of WIP. 362 pgs of an estimated 362 pgs. Finished. ROCK AND ROLL!!!
    To send out 40 queries for the other completed WIP.
    Currently: 0/40. This didn't happen.


    2008 Pledge:
    To change tons of diapers. In progress.
    To edit/do first rewrite in 2007's WIP.
    Also, maybe to get like 15 queries out, but it won't be easy.




    "Anybody can make up statistics to prove their point. 14% of all people know that." -- Homer Simpson

Page 1 of 19 123456711 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Custom Search