PAMB and its quotes

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tsu Dho Nimh

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
1,534
Reaction score
248
Location
West Enchilada, NM
#1: I would still like to see PA start a marketing department

#2: With thousands of books being published by PA, it would be difficult for them to give equal marketing attention to every book published. PA would have to be very selective as to which books get that kind of attention. Needless to say, it would cause much agitation for those authors who don't get their books pushed.

*********
 

PVish

Cat hair collector
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
1,641
Reaction score
263
Location
slightly off center
Website
peevishpen.blogspot.com
From the "Marketing Tips" at the PAMB
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=16612

What about putting an insert of your book in the newspaper and not just your local ones?

Get a lisiting of newspapers and contact them and ask them about doing it. Our only cost would be do print the inserts and mail to the newspapers.

I just thought of that and perhaps I'll try it now.

What are your thoughts?

Here are a few of my thoughts: Newspapers charge to put inserts in. They don't give free advertising. Even if they did allow someone to "mail in" these inserts (which is highly unlikely), you'd need thousands of inserts per city. The cost of printing these inserts and shipping them to newspapers all around the country is highly prohibitive. (Think: Have you ever heard of Random House doing this? Why do you think they don't?)

The "put the business card in the junk mail and/or bills" idea has already resurfaced on that thread. It won't be long until someone suggests putting fliers on windshields at the shopping center. It's been a while since that was last suggested on the PAMB.
 

Tsu Dho Nimh

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
1,534
Reaction score
248
Location
West Enchilada, NM
I've got it!!!!! They can buy lists of email addresses and sent out email announcements to MILLIONS of potential readers for FREE!!!!
 

PVish

Cat hair collector
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
1,641
Reaction score
263
Location
slightly off center
Website
peevishpen.blogspot.com
Tsu Dho Nimh said:
I've got it!!!!! They can buy lists of email addresses and sent out email announcements to MILLIONS of potential readers for FREE!!!!

And, if they all go in together and share the lists, they'll only have to spend PENNIES apiece! Or maybe a few PAers with some extra time can send out very long lists of all available PA books to the email addys on these lists. Wow! Think of the possibilities! Sheesh!

What never ceases to amaze me (a self-pubbed and POD-pubbed writer who has had modest success targeting a very narrow niche market) is that many of the PA authors don't know that not everyone wants to read just any book. IMHO, they appear to think that if people only know of their books, they will buy them. Most PA authors seem unaware of targeting a particular audience. (Yeah, I know: if they really knew how publishing worked, they wouldn't have gone with PA either.)

But at least they "didn't pay to get published." They just have to pay to get the word out. And to buy their books to resell. And to pay for gas to distribute all those fliers. And to visit bookstores and beg managers to shelve the books. Etc.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Suzie can sew the costumes and Billy's dad owns a barn! Hey, kids, let's put on a show!

Do you know why you don't see a lot of newspaper advertising for books? Because it costs more to run than the revenue it brings in.

Sure, you'll see some. For your major best-sellers by your name-brand authors. The purpose of those ads is to tell the public: "Y'know that book you were planning to buy the minute it came out? It's out!"

Those guys aren't best sellers because of the advertising; they get the advertising because of they were already best-selling. Even then they don't get inserts. They get a small black-and-white ad on the book review page.

Yo, PA authors! For anything you do, figure out what it'll cost. Then figure out how many more copies you'll need to sell in order to cover that cost. Then ask yourself if it might not be cheaper and easier all the way around to take a box of your books, put a five-dollar bill in each one, and leave it on the street corner with a sign that says, "Free! Take one!"

See also here: Stupid Internet Marketing Ideas That Don't Work. (Anyone who wants to cut-n-paste it into the PAMB promotions board, feel free. You can leave off the title.)
 

stormie

storm central
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
12,500
Reaction score
7,162
Location
Still three blocks from the Atlantic Ocean
Website
www.anneskal.wordpress.com
James D. Macdonald said:
See also here: Stupid Internet Marketing Ideas That Don't Work. (Anyone who wants to cut-n-paste it into the PAMB promotions board, feel free. You can leave off the title.)

Thanks, James, for the laugh. I needed that on a Monday morning! (I'm glad I had finished my coffee before I read it.)
 

endless rewrite

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
631
Reaction score
262
Location
Uk
In the following gem a PA author writes about how they plan to promote themselves and their book by going into schools:

I plan to offer to go to the local schools and read from my book and talk to the kids about writing dialogue, something no one teaches and something I can't do. I do, however, know how. I just don't follow my own knowledge because I don't like writing dialogue (which I will keep to myself.)

I wonder if they will be invited back.
 

xhouseboy

In the Yellow Woods
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
1,512
Reaction score
324
I plan to offer to go to the local schools and read from my book and talk to the kids about writing dialogue, something no one teaches and something I can't do. I do, however, know how. I just don't follow my own knowledge because I don't like writing dialogue (which I will keep to myself.)

I plan on offering my services to a nuclear power plant up the road from me. I want to lecture them on fusion, or is it fission? Doesn't matter - I'll be winging it anyway.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,785
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
From the PAMB (last Friday):

Besides that only 25% of all books sold in the United States are sold in bookstores. I now have centered my marketing to the other 75%.

That old myth is still being passed from hand to hand at the PAMB.

Perhaps, if you're talking about "all" books, that may be marginally true. "All" books includes textbooks, reference books, law books, corporate reports, medical books, engineering tables, training manuals, academic studies, and much else that you don't expect to find in bookstores -- but that aren't being sold by the author out of the trunk of his car in the parking lot at Jiffy Lube, either.

If you're talking about trade books (the novels; the general non-fiction) that make up the bulk of PA's offerings, those mostly sell in bookstores. 60-65% of them sell there. Another 30% are sold through book clubs (and PA authors have yet to break into the clubs). We're up to 90-95% of all trade books right now, without getting into the on-line sales and direct sales.

Young author: if you've written a romance, a western, a mystery ... if you aren't in the bookstores you aren't anywhere. Sell what you can in the food court of your local mall (until security throws you out). But don't talk about "joining the 75%." Those ranks, too, are closed to you.

From today:

Well, I have not had much luck with the media or book stores either, but I did get somewhere with two reporters. Here is my advice:

Be a pest. I am a journalist and I know first hand that the press releases I use are the ones from the PR flacks that constantly call or e-mail me. I want to get them off my back so I use their stuff. This is how I have gotten somewhere. I got one reporter from AZCentral.com, Arizona Republic's online newspaper, to ask me for a review copy. The other reporter told me she was willing to call me shortly but I have since read the paper is not going to publish anymore. I still plan to call her again. I plan to send another round of e-mails to the reporters again this week. E-mails tend to work better than media kits because journalist tend to put off opening their mail but always open e-mail because they are expecting important information.

I also found out that bookstores finalize calendars the last two weeks of the month. So I sent more information to the bookstores last week and will follow up this week. I have Borders and Barnes & Noble interested even if it's slightly. There again, be a pest. Keep after them and call them within their timeframe.

But my best source of advertising has been word of mouth. My friends in my Women's Club have told their book clubs and churches without having even read a word of my book; some already have ordered the book; my dentist is going to have her whole staff go to the bookstore to ask for them to stock the book; I put flyers on all my neighbors door steps. One of them is a volunteer at the library and is planning to help me have an event; I contacted the library for a book signing. I give bookmarks to anyone who knows me even if it is marginal; my friends back East are talking up the book; I talk to people about it when I'm buying other services. I got a picture framed for my husband for our anniversary and talked to the framer about my book.

I don't know how many of those will turn into sales but at least the word is out about my book.

Good luck to you!

As you might expect, this author's book won't be coming out until the end of October. I wonder what advice she'll be giving at this time next year, after she sees how well this works?
 

MicheleLee

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
208
Reaction score
20
Location
Louisville, KY
Website
www.michelelee.net
So depressing

Okay, so I wasted a bunch of time reading some of the PA boards. It is so incredibly sad. Heart breaking that all these people (some with insanely poor writing skills) are all so excited about their books being published. Some actually talk about how nice it is that all the negative posts get deleted because they don't want to ever run across anything they find offensive. How incredibly sad.
 

Tsu Dho Nimh

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
1,534
Reaction score
248
Location
West Enchilada, NM
OMG: It's telepathy or something ... they're thinking of scraping addresses and spamming!

Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:57 pm
Building on something Ron mentioned, there are companies on line who create email lists for you. The reliable companies rent lists (they send the message for you, with your from info, and don't give you the email address). The responses from these types of lists are higher because they are more current, however you don't know if you are emailing twice to the same person (check out the websites of exmmarketing.com and ad-site.com for more info). You can buy email lists too, but these are usually much older with alot of out of date emails listed on them.

Then you can always buy an email extractor (they are around $80 to $100 dollars). Then you can pull your own email addresses (I don't know too much about these, so I don't know if you can pull email addresses to people who purchase books online or not).
 

Tsu Dho Nimh

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
1,534
Reaction score
248
Location
West Enchilada, NM
Christine N. said:
Run. Away.
Astroturf is next on the list, I'm sure. Like I don't get enough junk in my in-box.

Astroturfing ... you mean like having your friends post 5-star reviews on Amazon, publish glowing reviews of your book on associatedcontent.com, and have your whole church group ask the bookstore to stock your book?

It will never happen.
 

spike

Mostly Ignored
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
1,100
Reaction score
151
Location
Bath, Pennsylvania
Website
oddgoose.blogspot.com
PAMB said:
The only bad marketing ideas are the one's that go unused..anything including books can be sold no matter how bad or good they are. I've seen people on e-bay sell snow balls, wads of hair and pancakes..if you push your book you can sell it. let no chance go untaken. Keep your info in hand always. Let no one walk past you with out at least offering them a card or book marker. The costs of these things are very little but if you dont have a penny, a hand shake and a smile will do fine...talk it up...talk,talk, and talk. The people at my job have made a joke about me pushing my book at them...at first this bothered me then one of their spouses called me and asked me where she could order one from...i sold a book because her husband went home complaining about me pushing the book...Dont wait on your book to sell itself. IT WONT....

Can you imagine working with this guy? This is worse than Amway!
 

rekirts

NOooooo!!!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
891
Reaction score
219
Location
Land of Living Skies
I'm surprised some of these people have any friends left. Really, if someone I knew kept pestering me to buy something, anything, I'd make a habit of avoiding them.
 

SeanDSchaffer

rekirts said:
I'm surprised some of these people have any friends left. Really, if someone I knew kept pestering me to buy something, anything, I'd make a habit of avoiding them.


The problem with this that I have encountered is that some of the more pesky solicitors will notice you are trying to avoid them, and not get the point. They will continue to search you out, not realizing they've done wrong.

That's where this situation really becomes a problem.
 

Sheryl Nantus

Holding out for a Superhero...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
7,196
Reaction score
1,634
Age
59
Location
Brownsville, Pennsylvania. Or New Babbage, Second
Website
www.sherylnantus.com
rekirts said:
I'm surprised some of these people have any friends left. Really, if someone I knew kept pestering me to buy something, anything, I'd make a habit of avoiding them.

especially at those prices.

seriously, how do a lot of these people have the balls to look at themselves in the mirror after forcing themselves on friends and family?
 

SeanDSchaffer

Sheryl Nantus said:
especially at those prices.

seriously, how do a lot of these people have the balls to look at themselves in the mirror after forcing themselves on friends and family?


They probably are able to look themselves in the mirror afterward, because PublishAmerica told them this is how business is done.

Otherwise, I do not think they would be able to do so without at least flinching.
 

Bubastes

bananaed
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
7,394
Reaction score
2,250
Website
www.gracewen.com
The costs of these things are very little but if you dont have a penny, a hand shake and a smile will do fine...talk it up...talk,talk, and talk. The people at my job have made a joke about me pushing my book at them...at first this bothered me then one of their spouses called me and asked me where she could order one from...i sold a book because her husband went home complaining about me pushing the book...

Unreal. No, the best way to sell something is to LISTEN first to hear what the buyer wants, THEN sell it to them.

I hate salespeople who do nothing but talk talk talk. Bleah.

I had an ex-BF who got involved with Amway (that's why I broke up with him). Scary stuff.
 
Last edited:

Ken Schneider

Absolute sagebrush
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
1,977
Reaction score
414
Location
location,location.
I'm sure if we want to check, that anyone ever associated and posting on the PA board has been on the other side of the quotes.

I'll leave it to those who haven't been with PA to tackle the uneducated posts, since Ive been on the other end.
 

Arkie

a reader's ear and a writer's heart
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
688
Reaction score
82
Location
Arkansas
"Authors live on hope. Those that live on unrealistic hope often turn their disappointment in on themselves when a book doesn't do well in the marketplace. The self is the wrong target. In the majority of instances the fate of a book has already been determined by the publisher before the appearance of the first review."--Sol Stein

In the case of a PA book, the fate has been determined by the printer, regardless of reviews, glowing or otherwise. That boat simply won't float.
 

stormie

storm central
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
12,500
Reaction score
7,162
Location
Still three blocks from the Atlantic Ocean
Website
www.anneskal.wordpress.com
as far as your friend go ..he/she needs to wake up one morning and find her car plastered with your flyers.....lol.....NEVER MISS A CHANCE...mail him/her one every day till he/she gives in ...lol...never miss a chance...

That's one way to give up a friendship. Seems DK's long-time friend refused to talk-up her book in "the big city." This other guy then posts the above statement. Sure. Great way to get a book noticed. Not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.