Agent/Time & the Equation

Boy, that's a tough one. I'm there too. I can list about 12 editor's desks where my book has landed, or is still there under review. I have the paper records to prove it, and I'm duly impressed at my agent's ferocity and contacts. He's been to so many conferences, meetings and workshops that his shoe leather is worn out. The problem is, he's new and has made tons of recent non-fiction book sales, but the 29 fiction writers in his stable, including myself, have yet to see one novel sale. Not one. Not good. I've got the jitters, and for the life of me can't figure out what the dawg's goin' on here. I have no clue, but I do know the stuff is out there, cause I've got the comments. I know of one other client here from AW who has had something like five novels out with multiple submissions, and has had some nibbles but no carniverous chops. That person is an older client than myself.

My material has only been out there for six months, and that's only one novel. My agent has two other books of mine that need to be prepped. I'm the only SF writer he has right now. I'm not at the hair-pulling stage, but since I'm the new kid on the block, with this agency, I've got to wonder what in the heck those other 28 writers are feeling at this time.

Without a doubt, fiction is a tough, tough sale. I'm wondering if the brand-name top gun agents, who've been around since the last ice age, are getting most or all the candy. I'm wondering if there is hiearchy (sp) in the system that is a little bit one-sided, and the new agents are getting just a tad lost in the shuffle.

Consider this too, selectivity is at an all time high for fiction slots. You don't have to have a great manuscript. You better have a Premium manuscript, polished to a brilliant sheen, damn near ready for press without revisions, and this is the scuttle butt I've been hearing coming through.

I was with Richard Curtis years ago. He's the demi-god of godly science fiction writers. He made one call and my book ended up at Universal Studios, where it was received enthusiastically, until ultimately, it was put on a back-burner. I stayed with this agency for nearly two years without a sale. I finally did leave after the two year mark, and it was a friendly split. Today, I'm haunted by those memories and wondering if I'm headed down that long, lonely road again.

No bitter melon balls here. I'm flushed pink with gratitude for having an agent spend a fortune, sending my stuff out. And he's a total fit for me, since he's a champion for perfection and improvement. I'm going to stay put where I'm at for now. The publishing industry moves at such a slug-like pace, I'm willing to keep working and splashing ink on my screen. I just don't know at this time which one of my books are going to hit. But I do know...that one of them will. I don't look at the hour glass any more.

Hang in there, and forgive me for asking, smallthunder, but how long has your book been out there making the rounds via your agent's hands?

Cheers!

Tri

Is there anything you could do to "beef up" the offer, smallthunder? I mean, have you met any mega-authors in your genre/field since you got agented that might be able to offer a cover quote, or can you think of some sort of marketing tie-in? Even if it's tentative, sometimes that little extra push can help an editor who's on the fence. You might talk to your agent about this--see if he can make some suggestions about perks that could grab an AE. It's not much, but it's all I can think of.

I feel very, very lost. I don't know what to do -- outside of working on my second novel, of course. But I'm finding it hard to sustain momentum on the second novel when there are these "what is wrong? what should I do (differently)?" with the first.

Yes, it is tough when we don't know exactly where we're missing the beat, with so many expert eyes on our book. General comments do us little good. I was half way through the sequel of the repped book, when I began getting flattering comments, but passes like, "Not quite ground-breaking enough" and "Didn't push the genre." Well, that hamstrug me bad because I felt that book #2 would be guilty by association.

Clearly, a year is not quite enough to go into a shuddering panic. Baen books, for instance, takes a year for a full read, possibly more. Many, many others can take up to six months. And that's not even considering the ones that DO demand an exclusive read, and of course agents like to save those for last (at least mine does). Also, you probably haven't hit the smaller presses yet that might not be concerned so much with this "National Appeal" mentality. Now I admit that your exotic location comment throws me a bit, since I would think this element (setting) would be one of the positive, attractive aspects to your plot. I have five exotic locations in my fantasy novel (not repped read yet), but they are temporary scenes, all happening within the U.S.

The fact that you went to acquisitions is a very good thing indeed. Any request for a rewrite and reexamination is stunning achievement. You actually made the book better as a result of this editor's opinion. Count that as a major "plus" and take heart. And a first novel to boot!!!!

Smallthunder, you definitely need to get started on another project (or continue on your second one like you are). Take everything you've learned, redouble your efforts, and get started on that jewel. Hobnob with your agent about likely subjects and plots that might appeal. Your agent does know who is looking for what. I'm not saying write something on spec. But stretch your wings and heed advice, sincerely and patiently.

The best of luck. You sound like you're well on your way. Only a very talented author, could have a first novel land with a big NYC agent, and have so many good comments about their work from interested editors.

I have a feeling that your agent will "run this book to the ground" since his/her response to it was so favorable. You've got plenty of time left.

One of the biggest fears a writer has with agented material is when that book has exhausted all hope by making all possible rounds to all the available markets. I think your greatest fear is coming to the end of readership row, which would make you feel that your project ultimately died without acceptance anywhere. Ah, but that is not the end of the road for said book. There are other markets......

Tri

Glad, to help, Smallthunder. Yeah, its kinda haunting since wer're riding in the same boat, same stream, headed for the same direction. I've been cursing my sequel out and telling myself that it's all a waste, what's the point. I'm forcing myself to press on and, at 89,000 words, I'm going to finish the thing and throw it against the wall so it bounces into a trunk. So if book one sells, well I'll have number two ready, aside from final polishing.

Now here's a real Outer Limits moment. I too have a fantastic non-ficiton book that's been on the backburner, and I've been thinking about bringing it out of the fire. It actually pulled 22 partial/proposal reads out of 30 submissions. But they all want major changes to it. I'm just about to swap over and reexamine it. Good non-fiction flys off the shelves, in comparison with novels. My first two books sold right away, and it fact had to hold my own little auction. If novels don't work out for me, I'm headed back to non-fiction.

Tri

smallthunder said:

Same here! Why would an exotic locale (Peking at the end of the Qing Dynasty) be a negative? Several of the editors praised my 'authentic sense of time and place,' too ... how very odd.

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I'm no editor, mind you, but if your novel is romance, I've heard that most romances set outside of the 'norm' don't sell well. That's why there are so many regency or scottish (and once upon a time, medieval) novels written, and not so many in say, Nepal.

Irysangel said:

I'm no editor, mind you, but if your novel is romance, I've heard that most romances set outside of the 'norm' don't sell well. That's why there are so many regency or scottish (and once upon a time, medieval) novels written, and not so many in say, Nepal.

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It's the same with mainstream. My fourth novel, an option novel, was rejected on grounds of location. Publishers don't want to take a chance with an "unsexy" location. Sexy - for the English-speaking market - are US, Britain, Ireland, India. Unsexy are the Outer Hebrides, Luxembourg, Costa Rica and any country readers may not have heard of yet. I was told that "readers won't buy books set in Guyana".

Just occaisionaly a writer comes out to break that taboo - like the guy who wrote thos Ladies Detective books set in Botswana. Somehow he got his foot in the door. But I bet if, before him, somebody went around querying about a novel set in Botswana they'd have got a lot of rejections. I don't know his story but Botswana must have been a huge barrier at the start. How did he get the book even read?
Mis Snark says she generally won't rep books from authors not based in the US but THOSE books she would have repped. But I wonder if she'd have even read that guy's queries? (assuming he doesn't live in the US) (Which of course is another theme altogether; now how did I get from books set in foreign locations to authors living in foreign loactions? )

aruna said:

It's the same with mainstream. My fourth novel, an option novel, was rejected on grounds of location. Publishers don't want to take a chance with an "unsexy" location. Sexy - for the English-speaking market - are US, Britain, Ireland, India. Unsexy are the Outer Hebrides, Luxembourg, Costa Rica and any country readers may not have heard of yet. I was told that "readers won't buy books set in Guyana".

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Crazy and infuriating, isn't it? I love reading books set in interesting locales especially if the author lives/lived/has visited the place; they're full of fabulous little details that really make you feel like you're right there in the story. I think if I have to read one more book set in NYC, or some other over-baked location, I'm going to scream. Bring on the exotic and diverse locations!

Okay, I've experienced the extreme opposite. One of the stronger selling points of my comm. fiction novel is that it is set partially outside of the US. Editors have expressed specific interest due to this fact. Such a subjective world we live in.

jkorzenko said:

Okay, I've experienced the extreme opposite. One of the stronger selling points of my comm. fiction novel is that it is set partially outside of the US. Editors have expressed specific interest due to this fact. Such a subjective world we live in.

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I think it deoends on the kind of book and its contents. Foreign locations go well with fast paced, high concept thrillers and also with introverted literary novels. Mine was a historical novel. My editor said that the country was itself a character, and people just wouldn't be interested in that country.

smallthunder said:

I know that many people here are focused on landing a real, live, legit agent -- so, forgive me if this is not the right forum for this question ...

My question is: How long should you stick with your legit NYC agent before either giving up hope on the novel, or giving up hope on the agent?

It's not that I don't think my agent has been submitting my novel -- I believe he has, and the letters from the publishing houses have been (for the most part) very complimentary. Complimentary, but no takers.

One supposed knock-down/dragged-out fight at an acquisitions meeting, even. But no takers.

So, what's the deal? Time + Good Manuscript + Reputable Agent is supposed to = publishing contract, right?

How much time? When does that variable reach its maximum, meaning that the 'agent' variable should be changed?

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If the agent in question is a good one, changing agents isn't going to help. I don't know why you'd even consider giving up on a legitimate New York agent? She's doing alol any agent can do, which is get your novel in front of editors. And why think about giving up at all? As long as there's a publisher to submit to, your novel should keep making the rounds.

I know it's difficult, but success usually comes from putting any novel making the rounds completely out of your mind. Submit and forget. You've turned the job over to an agent. Your job is now to concentrate on writing a second novel, a third novel, and a fourth novel.

You've found a good agent for it, and this is really all you can do. There's never a guarantee any novel you write will sell, no matter who the agent is, and no matter how long it's out there. But there's no guarantee the next publisher who sees it won't grab it, either.

You really need to find a way to put this novel out of your mind and concentarte on writing the econd, and the third, and the fourth.

Who's your agent?

What kind of a book is this?

How long is it?

Have you previously had something published? If so, what?

What exactly did those rejection letters say?

Please make your answers as specific as you can without making yourself uncomfortable. There's no use trying to do haruspicy if the guts aren't there to read.

I'm not at all sure you're doing the right thing.

Haruspicy is telling fortunes by examining entrails.

Am mightily cheered that a year doing the rounds doesn't mean a book is a loser. My non fiction tome has been with a London agent for a year come November and she has asked for a major rewrite (central character needs to be made more sympathetic) and I had wondered if that meant that it was one last desperate go before it is shelved....

Do you think there is a time difference between reading of non-fiction and fiction?

Wishing you luck and patience, Smallthunder.

aruna said:

I think it deoends on the kind of book and its contents. Foreign locations go well with fast paced, high concept thrillers and also with introverted literary novels. Mine was a historical novel. My editor said that the country was itself a character, and people just wouldn't be interested in that country.

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They should try passing that crap off on WIlbur Smith. Almost all of his novels are set at least partially in Africa. Some are definitely historical romances--his Egypt stories, Sunbird, etc.

I read books for the setting many times.

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays said:

They should try passing that crap off on WIlbur Smith. Almost all of his novels are set at least partially in Africa. Some are definitely historical romances--his Egypt stories, Sunbird, etc.

I read books for the setting many times.

Regards,
Scott

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Best selling authors can set their books anywhere. He became famous before all this crap began.

I made the mistake of believing that a novel set in a typical British colony, a novel that shows what life was like there, the struggle for Independence, the power of the British owned sugar industry, would somehow be new and different - obviously, all wrapped up in a moving love story. I was wrong. Oh well!

aruna said:

Best selling authors can set their books anywhere. He became famous before all this crap began.

I made the mistake of believing that a novel set in a typical British colony, a novel that shows what life was like there, the struggle for Independence, the power of the British owned sugar industry, would somehow be new and different - obviously, all wrapped up in a moving love story. I was wrong. Oh well!

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I assume one of your published stories? If it hasn't seen the light of day yet, I'd just set it aside for another day. Tastes change, thank God.

I guess it was the late '70's when I became aware of Smith and his books. That was way back, I guess. SF and fantasy had bigger market shares then, too. I guess these things just cycle.

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays said:

I assume one of your published stories? If it hasn't seen the light of day yet, I'd just set it aside for another day. Tastes change, thank God.


Regards,
Scott

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Yes, that's what I'm doing. It's not published yet.

Aruna --

Personally, I think it sounds like a fascinating read. Hang in there -- I agree with Scott, tastes change.

Wilbur Smith -- one of my all time favs back in the early 80's.

J.

Small Thunder, would you update us on what happened with your novel? I ask b/c my manuscript is currently being reviewed by the agent who represented you. I'd like to get a sense of your experience.

Just occaisionaly a writer comes out to break that taboo - like the guy who wrote thos Ladies Detective books set in Botswana. Somehow he got his foot in the door. But I bet if, before him, somebody went around querying about a novel set in Botswana they'd have got a lot of rejections. I don't know his story but Botswana must have been a huge barrier at the start. How did he get the book even read?

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I saw a programme on him recently. He grew up in Africa and originally wrote fiction set there. He was consistently told that stuff set in Africa wouldn't sell, so gave up writing adult fiction for many years as his stuff was considered unpublishable. He wrote the No1 LDA more for himself, and - as expected - it was turned down by tonnes of publishers.

Eventually it was picked up by a very small Scottish publisher (Polygon, who were part the Edinburgh University press at the time. He works at Edinburgh Uni as a law professor, so I'm not sure if that helped. He'd published a lot of academic work already). The editor who picked it didn't think it would sell but just loved the writing. He also wrote kids books for years, so I guess he would have had an agent when he was touting it too. So it was incredibly hard, even with all his credentials, and even with a brilliant book.

The fact that it's now a world-wide bestseller kind of proves that all those in the industry who claim to know what will be the next big thing and what won't sell really don't have a clue. It took off in Britain through word of mouth, then still struggled to find an American publisher.