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NYC Pitch Conference (formerly NYC Pitch and Shop)

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Yeah, that's pretty much my take on it.

Just as a general statement, the number of people posting in these two threads who share a router associated with a specific floor of a specific building?

Color me not amused.
 

Cassie Knight

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I actually had the event bookmarked to consider attending due to some of the agents/editors attending but then I came here and read all of the posts (except Making Light, which I'll read during lunch breaks--over days :)). What I got from this is that while I love conferences and think you can get some great benefit from them, paying that much money for pitching to the agents/editors is not as a better ROI then I can get from going to a local writer's conference and meetingd agents/editors in much less intense environment.

Beyond that, the people that have come on here and the other forum, like Pitch Grinch/Bitch, Babs, Rebecca and so on have done more to dissuade me from attending then those who have spoken positively about the event. Coming onto the board, being dishonest about affiliations and/or connection to the event, colors my view of the entire event. Then to learn there is an actual contact by Neff to get people to come here... Wow, just wow.

Frankly, if an event isn't good enough to have people honestly speak on it, then it is not an event I want to give my hard-earned money to. I'll save it for my local organizations who offer the same thing for much less and don't leave such a bitter taste in my mouth.

Sad.

Oh and Francis, you rock! Don't let the attackers get you down. I've read all your posts and you seem like a decent sort.

And Hapi, I so want to meet you! :)

Rest of AW elite and Mac--thank you. I may not always agree with what's being said but I always respect the wealth of experience and knowledge on this board--even if I grind my teeth sometimes.
 

BabsWriter

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Just as a general statement, the number of people posting in these two threads who share a router associated with a specific floor of a specific building?

Color me not amused.
I've been doing my best to be a good contributor to the forums here, but it seems futile. My advice is lost in the swell of varying opinions on this or that. Perhaps some of it is for the good. I can't tell. Sigh.

Then I bumped into this yesterday after having seen the thread before, and this statement has made me curious. Just who are the posters on the two threads who share the same router? I am not associated in any way with Karma, ChickenMa, or Audrey in DC. I assume you are talking about these particular members since, together with me, they are the only ones--apart from several posters from prior years like Susan Breen and Will Lavender--who have said positive things about their NYC pitch experience, and the only ones, except for Francis Bruno, who have actually attended the event in question. They appear to have come from different places, joined at different times, etc. Why would they all come together to share the same router? And where is the router? Chicago? Hong Kong?

I believe the claim of router conspiracy is to insinuate that we are all the same person. I am therefore Karma, Audrey in DC, and ChickenMa. I might also be Susan Breen and Will Lavender and History Nerd and God knows who else.

For the record, I'm not amused either. Not amused at all.

I am amused at the amount of rump smooching that takes place on a continuous basis here. The air is so thick with lips on butt that one can't help but trip over it much less catch a deep breath. I am a member of several writer associations, have posted on many boards, and I've never seen such a display of reality denial for the sake of serious poop chute diving.

Here's another chance! Don't waste time. Pour on the indignation.

OMG
 
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BabsWriter

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The continuous downpour of animosity towards anything New York Pitch is inexplicable and downright strange. To see the cracks, allegations, and snark, year after year after year despite dozens of posts to the contrary. You would think a willingness to act balanced might prevail, but no, the negativity won't relent. So odd.

I especially like the ability to take things out of context and pound them into hammers of accusation, but I see that all over AW, not just here. It's too bad.

Thanks for the final wake up call.
 
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francisbruno

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I am amused at the amount of rump smooching that takes place on a continuous basis here. The air is so thick with lips on butt that one can't help but trip over it much less catch a deep breath. I am a member of several writer associations, have posted on many boards, and I've never seen such a display of reality denial for the sake of serious poop chute diving.

Here's another chance! Don't waste time. Pour on the indignation.

OMG

It's almost not worth it, but I see that Gravity is waiting with his bucket 'o popcorn.

This is the bewares, recommendations and background checks forum. Things can get heated. Every now and then someone comes and either:

1) asks about the conference -or- (sometimes closely followed by)
2) sock puppets come and tout how great it is.

I was originally part of #2. I know. Changed mind and all that over the years, but we've been down that path, so maybe you'll let it slide. I wasn't the only one as part of #2, I know of 3 others at the same time, all requested to become sock puppets. (I have the emails, so please don't call me a liar).

So, to recap:
1) no one ever said the conference is a scam. This has come up multiple times. (it's not mentioned in the last post, but ha been mentioned)
2) the conference is likely not worth it due to the way publishing really works. This has also come up multiple times.

Finally:
1) if you decide to go, have fun. You will likely have fun if not one of the few driven to tears (this is a reality and some may have given up their dream to an ignorant conference coordinator berating them).
2) take everything with a grain of salt since very few get published this way. Some do, but then the question is, would you have been published if you had done it the conventional way?
3) You can get pretty much the same advice (some might argue better) by frequenting absolute write or other forums of the same ilk.
4) You may be better off spending your money on a more professional conference. Maybe one that actually reads the submissions (David Farland, Viable Paradise, Uncle Orson's).

Good luck. Hope Gravity made enough popcorn to go around.
 

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"I wasn't the only one as part of #2, I know of 3 others at the same time, all requested to become sock puppets. (I have the emails, so please don't call me a liar)."

In my spare time over the summer I spoke with my workshop leader, the conference coordinator, two additional former attendees from more than five years ago, and saw the copy of a mail from two people in your group, one being Jennifer Harrison, who are all supporting my belief that you are not only a liar, but a clumsy liar.

2) the conference is likely not worth it due to the way publishing really works. This has also come up multiple times.

Writer conferences are not the publishing business, they are the writer conference business. Authors meet their agents and editors at conferences all the time, and learn a lot along the way. That is what happened to me. I'm in New York now meeting with my editor.

1) if you decide to go, have fun. You will likely have fun if not one of the few driven to tears (this is a reality and some may have given up their dream to an ignorant conference coordinator berating them).

I can find no one who corroborates this claim of yours that Neff was berating anyone. You said the extreme opposite on the Algonkian thread and on your own blog. Now you claim sock puppet zombie influence. The simple truth, IMO, is that you are lying again.

By the way, you claimed for the record on the Algonkian thread that writers at the pitch were prevented from pitching editors. This contradicts what you said on this board when you first posted, and what you said on your blog, but on another recent thread you slipped and mentioned meeting with professionals at the conference. You are clumsy with your lying. Look around and see if you can find your new inconsistencies.

2) take everything with a grain of salt since very few get published this way. Some do, but then the question is, would you have been published if you had done it the conventional way?

Meeting your agent or editor at a conference is conventional as much as sending query letters. Visitors to this board should take everything you say as a potential false statement much less a grain of salt. I think more like a grain of bitter weed.

3) You can get pretty much the same advice (some might argue better) by frequenting absolute write or other forums of the same ilk.

Not unless the same editors and workshop leader were hanging out on Absolute Write and spending hours of time with me. I like face to face contact, not the presence of faceless cybers.

4) You may be better off spending your money on a more professional conference. Maybe one that actually reads the submissions (David Farland, Viable Paradise, Uncle Orson's).

I spend my money on very professional events, thank you, and I told you before, I DON'T WRITE SCIENCE FICTION so your Uncle Orson won't help me.
 

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"I wasn't the only one as part of #2, I know of 3 others at the same time, all requested to become sock puppets. (I have the emails, so please don't call me a liar)."

In my spare time over the summer I spoke with my workshop leader, the conference coordinator, two additional former attendees from more than five years ago, and saw the copy of a mail from two people in your group, one being Jennifer Harrison, who are all supporting my belief that you are not only a liar, but a clumsy liar.

2) the conference is likely not worth it due to the way publishing really works. This has also come up multiple times.

Writer conferences are not the publishing business, they are the writer conference business. Authors meet their agents and editors at conferences all the time, and learn a lot along the way. That is what happened to me. I'm in New York now meeting with my editor.

1) if you decide to go, have fun. You will likely have fun if not one of the few driven to tears (this is a reality and some may have given up their dream to an ignorant conference coordinator berating them).

I can find no one who corroborates this claim of yours that Neff was berating anyone. You said the extreme opposite on the Algonkian thread and on your own blog. Now you claim sock puppet zombie influence. The simple truth, IMO, is that you are lying again.

By the way, you claimed for the record on the Algonkian thread that writers at the pitch were prevented from pitching editors. This contradicts what you said on this board when you first posted, and what you said on your blog, but on another recent thread you slipped and mentioned meeting with professionals at the conference. You are clumsy with your lying. Look around and see if you can find your new inconsistencies.

2) take everything with a grain of salt since very few get published this way. Some do, but then the question is, would you have been published if you had done it the conventional way?

Meeting your agent or editor at a conference is conventional as much as sending query letters. Visitors to this board should take everything you say as a potential false statement much less a grain of salt. I think more like a grain of bitter weed.

3) You can get pretty much the same advice (some might argue better) by frequenting absolute write or other forums of the same ilk.

Not unless the same editors and workshop leader were hanging out on Absolute Write and spending hours of time with me. I like face to face contact, not the presence of faceless cybers.

4) You may be better off spending your money on a more professional conference. Maybe one that actually reads the submissions (David Farland, Viable Paradise, Uncle Orson's).

I spend my money on very professional events, thank you, and I told you before, I DON'T WRITE SCIENCE FICTION so your Uncle Orson won't help me.

Blimey.
 

MacAllister

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Babswriter, if you'd like to go on posting here, you WILL be civil to other board members, regardless of whether they agree with you.
 

LindaJeanne

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Me. For some reason she (he?) has a personal vendetta against me.
Yes, and from the beginning, his/her obvious vendetta against you is the thing that, for me at least, most makes BabsWriter look like a sockpuppet.

I have a hard time imagining a random writer / conference attendee fixating so much on ( and acting as though they feel so betrayed by ) one other random writer / conference attendee who decided it wasn't a worthwhile experience.
 

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Algonkian NY Pitch Conference??

Any opinions on whether it's worth to go to Michael Neff's conference? It's very expensive, like around $700.00, plus your hotel, food, etc.. They say it's about improving your pitch but also strongly promote the idea of that you'll be able to pitch real publishers and that often they will ask for more. We know most of us will never get to pitch an editor directly so this has a lot of appeal. But I've heard mixed reviews about the conference and Michael Neff. Suggestions? Thanks.
 

HapiSofi

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Any opinions on whether it's worth to go to Michael Neff's conference? It's very expensive, like around $700.00, plus your hotel, food, etc.
The cost is excessive; the value is questionable. Michael Neff's conferences and workshops target inexperienced writers, and they're definitely run for profit.

Neff is a "writer" who's made few or no (I forget which) significant commercial sales, and knows near-zero about the real publishing industry. He runs a strange little empire of for-pay workshops, conferences, and groups, and nonpaying publication venues. He mainly targets the ever-expanding population of creative writing majors who've graduated and are at a loss about what to do next.

If you attend, you may have a great time meeting and hanging out with fellow writers -- many people have done so -- but the good you find in it won't be Michael Neff's doing. He's just there to siphon off your money.

They say it's about improving your pitch --
Here's the catch: books by first-time writers aren't sold via pitch. Neff has had this forcefully pointed out to him by industry professionals, to no effect.

Face-to-face idea-pitching is really a Hollywood thing, but even there it's not how brand-new writers get their foot in the door. Anyone can have a plausible-sounding idea. The question is whether you can make it come to life, and bring it to a satisfactory conclusion. An established body of work might constitute evidence that you can do that. A pitch will not.

Books by unknown authors are sold via query letter followed by full manuscript. Or they're sold by agents who've read them and honestly believe they can succeed. Or they're sold by their own charms and merits in the slushpiles of houses that still have open submissions.

In the unlikely event that an acquiring editor is exposed to a pitch, it's possible that they'll say "Sure, send it to me and I'll take a look." And then? You'll still send it in with the best query/cover letter you can write, or your agent will send it in for you; and in either case, it'll still land in a heap of unread manuscripts, from which only its virtues can rescue it. The difference between this and a pitch-free submission is negligible.

if you can find an intensive workshop on writing query letters, that might be worth your time and money.

but also strongly promote the idea of that you'll be able to pitch real publishers and that often they will ask for more.
Editors and agents are the ones you want to talk to. If you get scheduled for a session with one at a conference, you'll get 10-20 minutes with them, and at best they'll say "Sure, send it to me and I'll take a look." (See above.)

We know most of us will never get to pitch an editor directly --
You just got more than an hour of time from a NYC editor who works for a Big Five publishing company (hiya!). Old Hack is a longtime veteran of British publishing. Macallister Stone, who owns AW, is also the director of a major SF writing workshop. There are a lot of pros and experts on this board. We don't exist on a separate plane, and you don't have to pay off Michael Neff to talk to us.

But I've heard mixed reviews about the conference and Michael Neff. Suggestions? Thanks.
1. Go to the beginning of this thread and read the whole thing straight through.

2. Find non-exploitive venues where you can hang out with other writers, both online and in person.

3. Always remember that if you write good books that people want to buy and read, the agents and editors will be looking for you.
 
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Old Hack

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*bows down before the greatness that is Hapi*

(And thank you, Hapi and Filigree, for your kind words.)

Hapi is completely right. Pitching novels is not really a thing. Querying agents is how it's done. And even when you pitch successfully, you still end up in the query-queue.

Save your money. Or at least, spend it elsewhere.