Twilight Times Books / Paladin Timeless Books

Just looking around their site because I know one of their authors (who is happy with them). I see they are open to submissions till August 5th.

Looks like I missed their submission deadline. According to their website, it looks like they'll open up again in July. Anyone have any recent dealings with them? Good sales?

Jamiekswriter said:

Looks like I missed their submission deadline. According to their website, it looks like they'll open up again in July. Anyone have any recent dealings with them? Good sales?

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The friend I mentioned a few posts up in this thread, post #24, remains happy and continues publishing his novels through them.

kap

I did the synopsis, marketing plan, bio and first chapter (all in email as requested) yesterday and received a full request and a sample contract today. I just sent them the full minutes ago. They seem to be alive and kicking--website is currently updated--focused on readers, and they have a heck of a mission statement and profile. They have longevity on their side, I'll give them that. Distribution seems extensive for the e-book part of it, but I don't think they have print distribution. They claim to have made some sales to libraries and limited local book stores. The have garnered a lot of awards, reviews and accolades. P & E gives them the golden ticket. Maybe one to watch, eh?

tri

Seems like a good one

Hello, I am new here, though I have been reading the forum for a long time. I'm joined because this is one of the best resources for gathering information on publishers and the business of writing. I'm glad to be here. Anyway, here is my situation:

I submitted a cover letter, synopsis, first chapter and marketing plan as directed on the web page for Twilight Times Books. I waited for their reply. I did not hear anything for two or three months and then I sent a follow up e-mail. I did not hear anything so I waited another month or so and sent another follow up. Lida Quillen did reply then and asked for more chapters. Another 4 or 5 months passed without hearing anything from her and I sent another request for a status report. This time she replied within a couple of days. She said that she did not know what happened to my submission, but she would check on it. It has been over a year since then. I have sent a few e-mails asking about my status, but have not had any more replies. I don't want to be pushy and I know that in many cases a no reply means a rejection. But because on their website Lida days she does not mind a follow up e-mail, and she asked to see more chapters, I felt that follow ups were ok. I know how busy she must be and again, I don't want to appear pushy. But I don't know if it is something I should forget about, or continue to try to get a response from them.

From what I gather on this forum and from other sources, I feel that this publisher is a good one. They say that they do press runs for new authors between 750 to 1500 books. I take that as a positive. They also accept returns with no restictions. I know that distribution is another issue, but I found that with my first book a few years ago I had little problem getting bookstores to carry my book because it was returnable. These were mainly Barnes and Noble stores. In fact, only one bookstore refused to carry my book. However, the publisher I was with went out of business (I hope it wasn't because of me). So, now, I am trying to find another publisher and so far, Twilight Times Books, offers what I am looking for in a small publisher. At least as far as I can tell for now.

Has anyone else had communication problems with them?

My full submission is only about 45 days old or so, so I'll have to wait and see what goes on. I'll let you know if there's contact.

tri

triceretops said:

My full submission is only about 45 days old or so, so I'll have to wait and see what goes on. I'll let you know if there's contact.

tri

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Thanks, I appreciate that. I just wonder if my e-mail ends up on their spam list or something. I understand being a small press they must be swamped, but it's as if my submissions are disappearing. Thanks again. Oh, and good luck on your submission.

scifi_boy2002 said:

Hello, I am new here, though I have been reading the forum for a long time. I'm joined because this is one of the best resources for gathering information on publishers and the business of writing. I'm glad to be here. Anyway, here is my situation:

I submitted a cover letter, synopsis, first chapter and marketing plan as directed on the web page for Twilight Times Books. I waited for their reply. I did not hear anything for two or three months and then I sent a follow up e-mail. I did not hear anything so I waited another month or so and sent another follow up. Lida Quillen did reply then and asked for more chapters. Another 4 or 5 months passed without hearing anything from her and I sent another request for a status report. This time she replied within a couple of days. She said that she did not know what happened to my submission, but she would check on it. It has been over a year since then. I have sent a few e-mails asking about my status, but have not had any more replies. I don't want to be pushy and I know that in many cases a no reply means a rejection. But because on their website Lida days she does not mind a follow up e-mail, and she asked to see more chapters, I felt that follow ups were ok. I know how busy she must be and again, I don't want to appear pushy. But I don't know if it is something I should forget about, or continue to try to get a response from them.

From what I gather on this forum and from other sources, I feel that this publisher is a good one. They say that they do press runs for new authors between 750 to 1500 books. I take that as a positive. They also accept returns with no restictions. I know that distribution is another issue, but I found that with my first book a few years ago I had little problem getting bookstores to carry my book because it was returnable. These were mainly Barnes and Noble stores. In fact, only one bookstore refused to carry my book. However, the publisher I was with went out of business (I hope it wasn't because of me). So, now, I am trying to find another publisher and so far, Twilight Times Books, offers what I am looking for in a small publisher. At least as far as I can tell for now.

Has anyone else had communication problems with them?

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If you haven't heard back it's likely a no. She doesn't always send rejection letters.

That being said, I've heard their sales aren't all that great as they do very little to no advertising.

michael_b said:

If you haven't heard back it's likely a no. She doesn't always send rejection letters.

That being said, I've heard their sales aren't all that great as they do very little to no advertising.

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Thanks for the reply. I usually don't request updates from publishers. When I don't hear anything I assume it's a no. But in this case where they said they didn't know what happened to my submission I figured I would request an update. Anyway, I did send them another submission just a few weeks ago just to see what happens. Thanks again.

scifi_boy2002 said:

Thanks, I appreciate that. I just wonder if my e-mail ends up on their spam list or something. I understand being a small press they must be swamped, but it's as if my submissions are disappearing. Thanks again. Oh, and good luck on your submission.

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Thank you. I can understand how some submission end up in a publisher's spam folder. I think it has much to do the the subject title, in many cases. I usually always put "Submission" in the subject line then follow it up with the books' genre. Example:

Submission--YA fantasy.

Sometimes the publishers wants specific words in their subject line, and in order like Query or Submission, then the title and then the author's name. You have to read the guidelines carefully to get the correct sequence.

For those, I do something like: Submission--Screamcatcher--Chris Stevenson

tri

triceretops said:

Thank you. I can understand how some submission end up in a publisher's spam folder. I think it has much to do the the subject title, in many cases. I usually always put "Submission" in the subject line then follow it up with the books' genre. Example:

Submission--YA fantasy.

Sometimes the publishers wants specific words in their subject line, and in order like Query or Submission, then the title and then the author's name. You have to read the guidelines carefully to get the correct sequence.

For those, I do something like: Submission--Screamcatcher--Chris Stevenson

tri

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You're right. They wanted ttb or ttbook in the subject line and that's what I did. I tried to send it exactly like they wanted. Still, they may have rejected it and just did not have time to reply which is becoming the norm now. But the fact that I got a reply indicating that they did not know what happened to it led me to think that something went wrong. In any case, they asked for more chapters originally which at least gives me hope. Anyway, I submitted my next novel to them and it hasn't been long enough for a reply and this time I will just let it ride if I get no reply. There are other publishers out there.

I just remembered like an addled Dodo bird that I never nudged on my full, so very, very long ago. I'll hit them up now and tell them the same book is still available and it has sold 10 times in the past year. If they're willing, agent and I might agree to this one. Who the frak knows? Obviously they do have response problems--major ones.

tri

triceretops said:

I just remembered like an addled Dodo bird that I never nudged on my full, so very, very long ago. I'll hit them up now and tell them the same book is still available and it has sold 10 times in the past year. If they're willing, agent and I might agree to this one. Who the frak knows? Obviously they do have response problems--major ones.

tri

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I'm really confused by your post. How can one book sell 10 times? Do you mean you have had 10 offers?

I'm not actually sure that a positive thing or not to send to a publisher, depending on how spead out the offers were.

triceretops said:

I just remembered like an addled Dodo bird that I never nudged on my full, so very, very long ago. I'll hit them up now and tell them the same book is still available and it has sold 10 times in the past year. If they're willing, agent and I might agree to this one. Who the frak knows? Obviously they do have response problems--major ones.

tri

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Why the heck would you do this?

You don't seem to want to deal with this publisher and then... you want to?

???

In the first place, we refused all the contract offers--wrong word usage. I would definitely, most assuredly not tell them that we had current outstanding offers. We blew them all off anyway; we're looking for something better, in particular, a tad more distribution and publisher longevity, even nicer covers

I would think twice about telling them about the 10 contract offers, now that you mention it. It's bragging--but it's a feather in my cap too. However, we had a small press auction in the past and many of the publishers knew who they were competing with because they asked for their identities. Oh, yeah, some do that--most do not. That happens in preemps and large auctions, but it's usually the media that spill the beans once they investigate and find out who the participants are. That happens more with the Big Five pubs rather than the small press, because it IS bragging rights and it's huge news event.

TTBs got lost and forgotten in my submissions spread sheet which is over 800 submissions to agents and publishers over ten years. I didn't flag this one as a full request--I color code them for full requests. This one was colorless and I'm positive I skimmed right over it. I also read over this thread again to refresh my memory. They've picked up awards, popularity and recommendations since their founding days.

I wouldn't mind dealing with them. Caveat: Their non-responding history does annoy me. I'm thinking it might be a different kettle of fish if my agent queried them exclusively.

The offers were spread over about 14 to 15 months. There's been some recent ones, but not close together.

You don't seem to want to deal with this publisher and then... you want to?

Here is my earlier post. I'd say it was pretty positive:

I did the synopsis, marketing plan, bio and first chapter (all in email as requested) yesterday and received a full request and a sample contract today. I just sent them the full minutes ago. They seem to be alive and kicking--website is currently updated--focused on readers, and they have a heck of a mission statement and profile. They have longevity on their side, I'll give them that. Distribution seems extensive for the e-book part of it, but I don't think they have print distribution. They claim to have made some sales to libraries and limited local book stores. They have garnered a lot of awards, reviews and accolades. P & E gives them the golden ticket. Maybe one to watch, eh?

tri

This has to be a record. In fact, after checking my archives, it is a record for late response. I originally sent them the full and everything they asked for on 7-7-2013. After months of waiting, I signed them off. I just now got the offer of publication, unless I lost an offer way back in the ether somewhere. At this time, my agent is in negotiation with another publisher. So that's what I'm going to have to tell them. I guess if the deal falls through on the current pub house, TTB stands a chance because I DO like them, and always have. Best thing to do is let the agent handle it.

Any updates?

I recently discovered them during my search for small press publishers. I have not submitted to them, but I put them on my list for further research. I was wondering if anyone had anything recent to report about them. They SEEM legit, but the fact that both their Paladin Timeless website and their Twilight Times website say that they are currently looking for print distributors (and evidently have said that since at least 2006) makes me nervous.

I'm not too keen on what they mean by that, either. Does that mean that they don't have an Engram account or somewhere comparable (meaning that I likely won't have my book in major retailers)? Also, that doesn't inspire much confidence with their marketing capabilities.

If they're looking for print (book) distributors, it just means that their print books are still selling on the Internet. They're not in major retail brick and mortar stores. I've heard several small press publishers say they "intend" to acquire a distributor, or they have one 'lined up." They proof is when they actually do it.

Does anyone have recent experience with Twilight Times? Just checking. Mostly curious about marketing, covers, editing, etc. Thanks in advance.

I've been in contact with them over the years. Sales and reviews have gone through the roof for two of their latest releases. Lida is still at the helm and working hard. She wants to know what's up with one of my titles. I'm trying to get a hold of my agent, but she is buried in work or vacationing out of state again. I'll post any new developments.

triceretops said:

I've been in contact with them over the years. Sales and reviews have gone through the roof for two of their latest releases. Lida is still at the helm and working hard. She wants to know what's up with one of my titles. I'm trying to get a hold of my agent, but she is buried in work or vacationing out of state again. I'll post any new developments.

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How does "sales through the roof" translate to numbers? And how does that have anything to do with reviews?

You'll have to excuse my enthusiasm. Good ranks, which stay consistently low in the displayed numbers, are generally followed by good or even a great review showing. I don't remember seeing good sales ranks without some reviews. A top 100 or top 10 Amazon best-seller would be rare indeed if no reviews were listed. I would suspect that would be book stuffing. And keep in mind that Amazon bestseller ranks are really of no great reflection on popularity and true quality. It's a marketing gimmick, but fairly accurate for tracking sales popularity (especially for e-books). A writer can game it. But with authentic reviews and good rank, it's a fair bet that word-of-mouth had something to do with it.

Twilight Times book Savior is a recent release, Nov 25 and has a rank of 2,827 and the 26th position for SF and Fantasy. It has 13 reviews (nothing spectacular) and averages 4.1 stars

Twilight Times book The Broken Throne is a recent release, Nov 4th, and has a rank of 2,011 and holds the 41rst position in Fantasy and Sword and S & S. It has 50 reviews and averages 4.6 stars.

In contrast, me. Blackmailed Bride, published by Melange Satin Romance, a recent release on Oct 23, has a rank of 1,445,756 and rests at position #30,057 for romantic comedy. It has no star rating because it has no reviews. With a huge promo and costly marketing campaign, I consider my book flat and dead.

Lida threw those two releases at me, and it was pretty much random. I checked back in the history of some other TTB titles and saw really good standings with nearly all of their titles.

TT Books has been in business just shy of 20 years. Longevity also has something to say about readership and fan base. TTB also pays advances, which is a testament to their confidence and stability. And both of those titles have sold hardbacks--which is kept track by Bowker (sp?).Not too bad for a small press that doesn't require an agent.

So here's what I've learned. Just because you happen to glance at the author's or title's numbers of a publisher and see hundreds of listings, it does not mean they are successful or lucrative. If every one of their titles shows virtually tiny sales and no/zip reviews, it's a really good chance that you are with an author's mill.

So their sales are terrible? Or maybe you could clarify with # books sold over # months.

No, I'm saying my publisher is in terrible shape. Not TTB--They have a good showing. My sales for 57 days, counting 10 pre-order days = 2 e-copies sold.

For TTBs I would say there is no up and down rank history because of the newness of those titles. There is every indication that their sales were progressively climbing since the start of release.

Dog Ear Publishing has the most thorough overview of Amazon Sales Rank and what it translates to in weekly sales. I got the following matrix from Dog Ear Publishing’s blog.
Amazon Sales Rank (Overall – not Sub-cateogry)

• 1,000 = 90 copies sold per week
• 10,000 = 60 copies sold per week
• 100,000 = 16 copies per week
• 300,000 = 12 copies sold per week
• 500,000 = 1 copy per week
• 1,000,000 = 1 copy per month

These are general figures, but you'll see this little chart (or one like it) around the Internet giving you an approximate overview of books sold as defined by sales rank.

Here's another chart:

Below are estimates based on authors personal experiences.
More FREE Author Resources.
Amazon Best Seller Rank 50,000 to 100,000 – selling close to 1 book a day.
Amazon Best Seller Rank 10,000 to 50,000 – selling 3 to 15 books a day.
Amazon Best Seller Rank 5,500 to 10,000 – selling 15 to 30 books a day.
Amazon Best Seller Rank 3,000 to 5,500 – selling 30 to 50 books a day.
Amazon Best Seller Rank 500 to 3,000 – selling 50 to 200 books a day.
Amazon Best Seller Rank 350 to 500 – selling 200 to 300 books a day.
Amazon Best Seller Rank 100 to 350 – selling 300 to 500 books a day.
Amazon Best Seller Rank 35 to 100 – selling 500 to 1,000 books a day.
Amazon Best Seller Rank 10 to 35 – selling 1,000 to 2,000 books a day.
Amazon Best Seller Rank of 5 to 10 – selling 2,000 to 4,000 books a day.
Amazon Best Seller Rank of 1 to 5 – selling 4,000+ books a day.

There's a vast difference in chart stats, to be sure. However, compare my current publisher with TTB new releases. There is NO comparison. You have to take in "spikes" that mean huge sales are showing at That Moment. Ten books bought in one day can really give you a great sales rank, and this could be a result of a recent ad or a new release. A true bestseller would have to be monitored every week or so. Classic books usually stay very high in sales for years and years.