Winghill Writing School / Quality of Course, Inc.

I'm also looking at this school, and hope someone comes up with some information. I can't find anything bad about them.

madhatter said:

I'm also looking at this school, and hope someone comes up with some information. I can't find anything bad about them.

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But can you find anything good about them (not written by them)?

WELL great...i just sent them money booo. What a letdown, so they really are a scam? because i dont see why, i paid friday and have already logged into the student center and i can already check out my first assignment...Should i ask for a refund? All i wanted to do was get some more training, because im the type where i'll start something, but end up getting stuck and trunk the whole thing! They dont offer creative writing where i live, all they have are journalism degrees and i dont want that! i guess im stupid and naive to think that 53 dollars a month will help me finish and get published....

Hi all,
I am a student support specialist at the Winghill Writing School and thought I would get back to you.

I think it’s important for everyone to do research and find the right school/training for them as every writer is unique. It is always nice to see forums like this where writers support each other.

If you would like more information about our school, check us out on the Better Business Bureau (BBB). Also, check us out on Facebook if you have questions for us, our graduates, our current students, or other enquirers.

Of course, please always feel free to contact the school if you have any questions, concerns, and/or comments.

Shirley
Student Support Specialist
Winghill Writing School

I enrolled with Winghill. It is a scam. They boast about their money back guarantee, but it's not true. Take this example of my experience for instance, if you do any of the assignments (the first four assignments are easy and the tutor does not even "correct" them) they will take money off the refund. On top of this you have to pay to return the the "course materials" which are a group of awful self published books. if they're not in "mint and unused" condition, they deduct more money. You must return them with a tracking number, which is more money you will not get repaid. All together, I paid $53 for the first month. I canceled within the 21 day money back guarantee period, but i have been told that I will not receive my $53. Also, it will cost me $32 on top of my $53 (that I will not see again) just to ship the materials back.

I consider this a scam, but even if not a scam, it is a waste of time and money to pay such a sneaky and conniving business.

Better take your money elsewhere and avoid winghill / quality of course.

Hi I am a currently enrolled student in the Winghill Creative Writing Program, just about to graduate. Since enrolling, I have SOLD 4 articles and made $3,900. I also have received positive response from 2 major magazines for articles that I pitched. So the question is- was I happy with the course? Did it make me a better writer? The answer is yes. The guidance from my tutor was excellent. Throughout the process of pitching my articles that were sold and printed, my tutor provided great advice. Without this advice and coaching I do not know if I would have sold the articles. And, I am now a regular contributor to this magazine working on 2 articles and have been assigned 4 more. All are paying assignments. But I want to make a point: no course or educator can teach “talent”.they can only perfect your talent with strategic advice and coaching. And here is an observation: most university and public college instructors have “zero” professional experience, they learned from books and teach from books. My Winghill instructor has SOLD writing. Big difference.

Brissance said:

Hi I am a currently enrolled student in the Winghill Creative Writing Program, just about to graduate. Since enrolling, I have SOLD 4 articles and made $3,900. I also have received positive response from 2 major magazines for articles that I pitched. So the question is- was I happy with the course? Did it make me a better writer? The answer is yes. The guidance from my tutor was excellent. Throughout the process of pitching my articles that were sold and printed, my tutor provided great advice. Without this advice and coaching I do not know if I would have sold the articles. And, I am now a regular contributor to this magazine working on 2 articles and have been assigned 4 more. All are paying assignments. But I want to make a point: no course or educator can teach “talent”.they can only perfect your talent with strategic advice and coaching. And here is an observation: most university and public college instructors have “zero” professional experience, they learned from books and teach from books. My Winghill instructor has SOLD writing. Big difference.

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Yes this is how a real person talks and definitely isn't an advertisement in disguise. Also if you want to post an ad praising your writing course, maybe proofread the thing first.

University writing courses are definitely taught by people with industry experience.

I note that Winghill is at "78 Williams Street" in Sydney. Presumably that should be 78 William Street in Woolloomooloo, Sydney. Cue Monty Python. (The address is correct on other sites.)

I also note that Winghill does not have an Australian Business Number or mention any Australian tutors on the website.

The Winghill blog hasn't been updated since March 2015.

The link to the BBB goes to a 404.

Maryn said:

I've never had a writing instructor who wasn't commercially published, from Writers and Books to Big Anonymous University. Got any data to support your claim that most university and public college instructors have no similar experience?

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I certainly had a few who weren't, which was probably why their advice turned out to be lousy. The worst was a course on writing a book, where the focus was on novels, taught by a professor who'd never written a novel (although he had some university-printed flash fiction collections).

I'm not sure how prevalent it is either nationally or worldwide, but this was a state university which is still in operation to this day.

So, I have read the postings with interest. First, I have worked professionally in film and TV for 25 years. I have worked with Academy Award winning actors, directors of photography and award winning directors. I can tell you that most film professors couldn’t make it in the industry. So they teach. I was asked to teach because I brought real world experience into the classroom. Not theory. Also I created and produced a TV series that sold internationally. Also I have produced for NBC and was the executive in charge of production of a TV series for Discovery. And I decided to take the Winghill course because I want to write for magazines because it interests me. That is my experience. What is yours? I am directing that at the people who challenged me experience.

Brissance said:

My experience? 70 feature films 154 TV episodes.

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Can I ask what your role was on the 70 ffs and the 154 tv episodes? And, again - if they were produced? It's a heck of an output for someone who is also a Professor of something.

(It's still impressive if they weren't produced, but it helps me orient your experience. And experience is what we're talking about here.)


Could I also ask - your experience has been in film and tv production. But you're not teaching at Winghill, are you? Because they only have writers courses.

Brissance said:

So, I have read the postings with interest. First, I have worked professionally in film and TV for 25 years. I have worked with Academy Award winning actors, directors of photography and award winning directors. I can tell you that most film professors couldn’t make it in the industry. So they teach. I was asked to teach because I brought real world experience into the classroom. Not theory. Also I created and produced a TV series that sold internationally. Also I have produced for NBC and was the executive in charge of production of a TV series for Discovery. And I decided to take the Winghill course because I want to write for magazines because it interests me. That is my experience. What is yours? I am directing that at the people who challenged me experience.

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So why choose an obscure online course apparently in Woolloomooloo, which hasn't updated its site or social media feeds in years? This seems like an odd choice for someone so savvy.

I was looking for a course that taught me the mechanics of getting published in a shrinking market: magazines are disappearing. And it has worked. I not only have a regular gig writing articles and I have used the skills I learned to interest two other magazines. I am waiting to hear if they want articles from me. It is very tough to get published today and get paid for writing. I have made $3,900 so far, and one of the magazines I have sent a query to is interested. It pays a lot for an article. The other magazine is also interested in an article idea. Would this have happened without the course? I don’t think so. My instructor is excellent. I have learned a lot.

Looks like Winghill pages geolocate, but the business is probably in Canada. Shame, because I really enjoy typing Woolloomooloo.

Still, I'm curious why anyone would be trawling the internet for mentions of Winghill, especially given the business' so low it's supine profile.

Brissance said:

I was looking for a course that taught me the mechanics of getting published in a shrinking market: magazines are disappearing. And it has worked. I not only have a regular gig writing articles and I have used the skills I learned to interest two other magazines. I am waiting to hear if they want articles from me. It is very tough to get published today and get paid for writing. I have made $3,900 so far, and one of the magazines I have sent a query to is interested. It pays a lot for an article. The other magazine is also interested in an article idea. Would this have happened without the course? I don’t think so. My instructor is excellent. I have learned a lot.

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Honestly, if you'd said that upfront, your reception would have been much more welcoming.

Brissance said:

So someone asked what I did on the films/TV shows I worked on. I am a a special Effects supervisor.

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Oh. I mean that's great, but in a thread about writing on a board for writers and would-be writers specifically checking resources for writers, you can see that throwing in your 70 feature films and 154 tv shows to back up a statement that professors who teach writing never have any experience in writing sort of muddies the reception.

I'm probably not the only one who assumed when you brought your cv up, that you'd worked as a writer (or, later, when you mentioned production, as a creative producer.)

Intentionally or not, it set wildly different expectations. (And you're quite, quite wrong, by the way, to say that generally people who teach writing courses have no experience in writing. It may be true of people who teach special effects courses - but it certainly isn't true of writing. As evidenced by many, many, many published writers on this very board who also teach writing courses. (And by my writing tutors in Film School.)

Welcome anyway. Always good to have new people with new life experiences!

Helix said:

Shame, because I really enjoy typing Woolloomooloo.

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Btw - I'm also disappointed that you aren't in Woolloomooloo because I was almost sure I'd worked out who you were...

Someone posted about how much I made for writing 3 articles. Speiberg said in you make enough from writing to buy a light bulb you are a professional. It is important to understand the power of leverage. Recently I started pitching articles to other magazines and the first thing they asked for was samples of my published articles, but only if I was paid for the articles. I was able to submit samples that I had been Paid for. And I am using my published articles to connect with other magazines. The magazines I have contacted pay a LOT. So, by getting writing published I am able to use them as a force multiplier to break into larger higher paying magazines. The goal is to establish relationships with the editors to get regular paying assignments in a collapsing market that is no longer paying what they used to.

Brissance said:

Someone posted about how much I made for writing 3 articles.

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3 or 4 articles?

Brissance said:

Speiberg said in you make enough from writing to buy a light bulb you are a professional. It is important to understand the power of leverage. Recently I started pitching articles to other magazines and the first thing they asked for was samples of my published articles, but only if I was paid for the articles. I was able to submit samples that I had been Paid for. And I am using my published articles to connect with other magazines. The magazines I have contacted pay a LOT. So, by getting writing published I am able to use them as a force multiplier to break into larger higher paying magazines. The goal is to establish relationships with the editors to get regular paying assignments in a collapsing market that is no longer paying what they used to.

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The need for tear sheets/a portfolio in article writing isn't arcane knowledge, though.

Also - can I ask (since you have really stressed the point of your work-experience in film) whether these articles were about film production/sfx, and the magazines were aimed at the film or sfx industries? Because - that would mean you'd need to consider how much of your interest from them comes from your professional experience and how much from the course you did. This is only relevant, of course, because you've come into a thread about the efficacy of a particular course for writers, responding against the evidence of other people who've taken the course, and found it unhelpful - people, perhaps who don't have a natural point-of-difference in their work.

It might well be that you're a natural writer, that you're pitching to magazines skewed intimately to your own industry (nothing wrong with that!) and that you might well have gotten picked up regardless, what with a lifetime of work to talk about. That wouldn't invalidate your response, but noting it upfront (if it were the case) would help people read your response with a full knowledge of where it is coming from.

The only reason I'm wondering is because you were so quick to mention your success, your thoughts about teachers of writing courses other than this one, and your background in film and TV. And later, your background in SFX which is quite a specialist field and likely not overwhelmed with writers. So were they film or SFX-oriented magazines, or were they not connected to your working experience? (Congrats either way. Getting published is hard.)

My point is why ridicule the fact I made “only” $3,900 when I see it is a way to leverage even better opportunities. I have a goal, a plan and I am working my plan. And it is working. Meanwhile I meet people who are trying very hard to achieve a positive writing outcome and struggling. So I would say publishing 3 articles is a success. Right?