AW Amazon Store

If this site is helpful to you,
Please consider a voluntary subscription to defray ongoing expenses.


 

Welcome to the AbsoluteWrite Water Cooler! Please read The Newbie Guide To Absolute Write

Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Winkler Literary Agency

  1. #1
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Coastal Desert
    Posts
    13,108

    Winkler Literary Agency

    ...
    06-05-2006, 04:47 PM
    Puma
    Board fanatic

    Winkler Literary Agency

    This is a carryover from the Refuge Camp. Has anyone had any experience with the Winkler Agency (Cynthia Winkler) in Florissant Missouri? They have very little on their website but say they are specializing in historical fiction and historical romance. One of the posts in the Refuge Camp indicated Winkler was added to P&E on 5/26. My suspicion is that they're a brand new agency. Any info appreciated. Puma
    06-05-2006, 05:13 PM
    CaoPaux
    Mostly Harmless

    Cynthia L. Winkler http://www.winkleragency.com

    Finding no trace of an agent before they hang out their own shingle is never a good sign. Pass.
    __________________
    CAO
    06-05-2006, 06:53 PM
    victoriastrauss
    Cud-chewing moo-derator
    Absolute Sage

    Red flags include no information on the agent's professional background (and thus no way to determine if she's qualified to be a literary agent), and no sign of sales. I'm guessing that this is another amateur agent.

    - Victoria
    __________________
    Two of Eight
    06-06-2006, 03:57 PM
    Bartholomew
    Board fanatic

    Dear Bart,

    I am awaiting my first sale.

    Thanks for writing.

    --Cindy Winkler
    - Hide quoted text -


    Bartholomew Klick <aardvark.novelista@gmail.com> wrote:
    - Hide quoted text -

    Dear Ms. Winkler,

    May I please see a list of your sales? It would help a friend of mine
    make up her mind as to whether or not she'll submit her ms. to you,

    Thank you for your time,

    Bart
    __________________
    06-06-2006, 03:58 PM
    crobinator
    Board fanatic

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bartholomew
    Dear Bart,

    I am awaiting my first sale.

    Thanks for writing.

    --Cindy Winkler
    - Hide quoted text -


    Bartholomew Klick <aardvark.novelista@gmail.com> wrote:
    - Hide quoted text -

    Dear Ms. Winkler,

    May I please see a list of your sales? It would help a friend of mine
    make up her mind as to whether or not she'll submit her ms. to you,

    Thank you for your time,

    Bart
    I love these forums. Way to get things done!
    __________________
    06-06-2006, 04:34 PM
    Maryn
    Bru-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-uce!

    I think I'm the one who suggested that both her location and the lack of sales didn't bode well, and that a legit agent would take no offense at a request for her recent sales.

    I'm glad to see you following up. Keep us posted when and if she replies, okay?

    Maryn, hoping to see you with a good agent
    __________________
    "Is You Is or Is You Ain't My Baby?" --Louis Jordan
    06-06-2006, 05:05 PM
    Bartholomew
    Board fanatic

    I've corresponded some more with Ms. Winkler.

    She strikes me as honest, and I have a KEEN nose for honestly.

    She went ON to address this very thread! =)

    Quote:

    "If this is in relation to Puma's question about me, be assured that just because I have not SOLD, I am submitting to editors."

    She has a very livid sense of humor, by the by, and is quite pleasant.
    __________________
    Rejections since Jan. 2006 - 7.
    06-06-2006, 05:11 PM
    crobinator
    Board fanatic

    In my unpublished opinion, I think it's a good reflection on her part (and less scam-tastic) that she is only interested in those two specific genres. Were she interested in "any and all genres, big or small, shoes or snails - send it to me! I'll get it sold!" type of material, then I would be more immediately nervous.

    The problem arises when you want your first book to be a huge hit, but both you and your agent are still trying to get one pebble in the pot.
    __________________
    06-06-2006, 07:06 PM
    Puma
    Board fanatic

    Bartholomew - Thank you for doing the checking. And Crobinator - Thank you for reflecting a viewpoint I share with you. We all have to start somewhere, writers and agents alike. I think I've written a couple pretty decent novels. I also feel that the big boys are so deluged with queries that they aren't going to grab onto something, especially from an unpublished writer, unless they feel they're absolutely guaranteed a healthy return on their investment. In my opinion, that means they will probably pass on some of the best things currently available and go with the tried and true whether it be writer or story concept. So, I'd be willing to take a chance on a new agent. Puma
    06-06-2006, 07:51 PM
    Aconite
    Full sun to light shade
    Mod Squad Member

    Here's the thing: bad agents are not all scammers. Some are well intentioned and honest. They just can't do diddly for you. They don't have connections, they don't know how the business really works, they don't have a detailed understanding of rights negotiations or what you can and can't get from certain houses. In some ways, an honest but gormless agent can be worse for you than an outright scammer, because scammers won't submit your manuscript, and honest-but-gormless agents will, which means that those publishers are closed to you if you later change agents.

    Yes, everyone has to start somewhere, but if you want to be an agent, you start out working for a reputable agency or publisher, and get experience before you hang out your shingle as an independent agent. Come on, now, think it through. Do you--a totally inexperienced author who has never been through the publishing process before--want an agent who's in the same position you are? Better to have no agent than to be in that situation.
    __________________
    06-06-2006, 08:31 PM
    Puma
    Board fanatic

    Hi Aconite - I agree with you - but, in this case I'm not sure anyone really knows whether Cynthia Winkler has worked for any agency other than the one she's just started. She may be brand new or she may be experienced and now with her own new agency.

    Since we know from Bartholomew's post that Ms. Winkler has looked at this forum, it would be nice if she could get guest status and let us all know what her background is. Or - it would be nice if she could get more information about her background posted on her website. Puma
    06-07-2006, 10:31 AM
    Kasey Mackenzie
    Blonde & Bookxum

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bartholomew
    I've corresponded some more with Ms. Winkler.

    She strikes me as honest, and I have a KEEN nose for honestly.

    She went ON to address this very thread! =)

    Quote:

    "If this is in relation to Puma's question about me, be assured that just because I have not SOLD, I am submitting to editors."
    Well, even if she is honest and submitting to editors, that does not mean she has publishing experience and is an _effective_ agent. An ineffective agent is nearly as bad as an outright scammer in regards to furthering a writer's career.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bartholomew
    She has a very livid sense of humor, by the by, and is quite pleasant.
    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." (Sorry, couldn't resist the Princess Bride quote...)

    Does livid mean something other than what I think it means? I would interpret this as she has a very angry sense of humor. Or, stretching, livid can also mean discolored by bruising, ashen, pallid, or reddish (yes I looked it up just to make sure there wasn't a more obscure definition than angry)...Which seem even less likely. Just trying to interpret what you meant by a livid sense of humor. Maybe you meant lively?
    __________________
    06-07-2006, 11:03 AM
    victoriastrauss
    Cud-chewing moo-derator
    Absolute Sage

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Puma
    Hi Aconite - I agree with you - but, in this case I'm not sure anyone really knows whether Cynthia Winkler has worked for any agency other than the one she's just started. She may be brand new or she may be experienced and now with her own new agency.
    So that's the next question that should be asked. With an agent who claims to be new, it's as important as the "do you have sales" question. Unless you know the answer to both questions, it's impossible to assess whether a new agent will be able to help you.

    - Victoria
    __________________
    Two of Eight
    06-07-2006, 11:14 AM
    roach
    rpia

    Last week I read Jim Fishers' Ten Percent of Nothing, about the Dorothy Deering agency.* One thing that struck me about the case is that Dorothy Deering and her husband, stepson and brother were all pretty much salesmen. They spent most of their time "puffing" themselves up to prospective clients, talking smooth, name dropping, playing to the authors' dreams of what being a published author meant. They had absolutely no experience in the publishing industry, and when their clients would meet them in person the standard response was: "What are these people doing in this industry?!?" But they were smooth talkers. At times they would invoke their Christian faith, or that they were authors themselves, whatever it took to close the deal and get the contract fee from authors.

    This is not to say that the Winkler Literary Agency is a scam. But just because the agent sounds nice doesn't mean anything. If she doesn't have any experience she won't have the contacts needed to make sales. Her answer about sales is that she's awaiting her first sale. Okay, fine. So now she needs to answer the question about her previous experience.


    *It made very interesting companion reading while AW was down.
    __________________
    06-07-2006, 11:41 AM
    CaoPaux
    Mostly Harmless

    Experience is the key.

    Editors prefer to read ms brought to them by agents they know and trust to get them what they're looking for. Anyone may declare themselves an agent, but unless and until they develop a relationship with editors, what they submit is put on the back burner. It's agented slush, but it's still slush.
    Agents without the clout to get you out of the slush pile do you little good. And, worst case scenario, if their inexperience causes them to mis-target mss, they'll get a reputation for cluelessness and their future submissions could be ignored entirely.
    __________________
    CAO
    06-07-2006, 12:07 PM
    Bartholomew
    Board fanatic

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kasey Mackenzie
    Well, even if she is honest and submitting to editors, that does not mean she has publishing experience and is an _effective_ agent. An ineffective agent is nearly as bad as an outright scammer in regards to furthering a writer's career.


    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." (Sorry, couldn't resist the Princess Bride quote...)

    Does livid mean something other than what I think it means? I would interpret this as she has a very angry sense of humor. Or, stretching, livid can also mean discolored by bruising, ashen, pallid, or reddish (yes I looked it up just to make sure there wasn't a more obscure definition than angry)...Which seem even less likely. Just trying to interpret what you meant by a livid sense of humor. Maybe you meant lively?
    No, I meant what I said. I appreciate her sense of humor because it runs in a same vein with mine.

    Perhaps it would be better to say sarcastic? barbed?

    At any rate, humorous.
    __________________
    06-07-2006, 12:45 PM
    Kasey Mackenzie
    Blonde & Bookxum

    Ahhh, I suppose I had never seen it used that way. BTW, just so everyone else knows since we discussed it via PM's, I DID think livid could be a typo since lively is pretty close. But I also sincerely wanted to know if there was another meaning to livid that I wasn't aware of and didn't find in Webster's. Just cause I love words and enjoy learning new things. Anyway, I didn't mean it as an attack on Bartholomew. =)

    And P.S. I won't comment on the word anymore since it's irrelevant to the thread. Just didn't want anyone else to think I was nitpicking or trying to insult Bartholomew.
    __________________
    06-07-2006, 02:20 PM
    Popeyesays
    Board fanatic

    I think I found her, also in Florissant, MO.
    http://www.cindywinkler.com/
    She seems to be a ReMax real estate agent.

    Regards,
    Scott
    __________________
    06-07-2006, 05:51 PM
    Bartholomew
    Board fanatic

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kasey Mackenzie
    Ahhh, I suppose I had never seen it used that way. BTW, just so everyone else knows since we discussed it via PM's, I DID think livid could be a typo since lively is pretty close. But I also sincerely wanted to know if there was another meaning to livid that I wasn't aware of and didn't find in Webster's. Just cause I love words and enjoy learning new things. Anyway, I didn't mean it as an attack on Bartholomew. =)

    And P.S. I won't comment on the word anymore since it's irrelevant to the thread. Just didn't want anyone else to think I was nitpicking or trying to insult Bartholomew.
    Relax, ya big silly.
    __________________
    06-07-2006, 07:26 PM
    Puma
    Board fanatic

    Popeyesays - I followed your link. Afraid that pretty well explains things. Thanks! Puma
    06-07-2006, 08:02 PM
    Popeyesays
    Board fanatic

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Puma
    Popeyesays - I followed your link. Afraid that pretty well explains things. Thanks! Puma
    Well, it means she knows how to sell. If she actually has some contacts in publishing, maybe from her own writing or whatever, she might have some avenues open to her for representing someone. I don't know if it could hurt to give her a whirl with a six or nine week exclusive and see what she does with it. I would consider going to an alternative title and maybe a pen name for the trial. Then you wouldn't have to worry too much about resubmitting through another agent or by yourself later on.

    Anyway, the first Cynthia L. Winkler I found was a prosecuting attorney for Washington County, Iowa. She'd been suspended from practicing law for three months for siezing a writing sample from a defendant during a deposition.

    Regards,
    Scott
    _________________
    06-07-2006, 09:15 PM
    Bartholomew
    Board fanatic

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Puma
    Popeyesays - I followed your link. Afraid that pretty well explains things. Thanks! Puma
    Puma,

    She has a background in sales. Its a *GOOD* thing.
    __________________
    06-07-2006, 09:26 PM
    Aconite
    Full sun to light shade
    Mod Squad Member

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bartholomew
    She has a background in sales. Its a *GOOD* thing.
    Well, not exactly. Book sales are not like any other kind of sale. Companies who've tried to run bookstores the same way they'd run shoe stores have found out it doesn't work; ditto agents who try to sell books like they'd sell houses.

    She's got no experience in the publishing world, and no contacts. Bad sign. She probably means well, but that's not going to help her as much as she thinks, unfortunately.
    __________________
    06-07-2006, 10:11 PM
    CaoPaux
    Mostly Harmless

    From what I've seen, successful agents are in acquisitions, not sales. That is, they cultivate editors to learn what publishers want, then seek mss to match.

    Convincing a publisher to buy something they're not looking for requires a very good relationship with the editor(s) in question.
    __________________
    CAO
    06-08-2006, 11:48 AM
    Bartholomew
    Board fanatic

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CaoPaux
    From what I've seen, successful agents are in acquisitions, not sales. That is, they cultivate editors to learn what publishers want, then seek mss to match.

    Convincing a publisher to buy something they're not looking for requires a very good relationship with the editor(s) in question.
    Ultimately, though, we're shadow boxing.

    She could be great at this, for all we know, and merely in a poor location. If she goes to a lot of conventions, she might have more contacts than an apache longbow over central bagdad.
    __________________
    06-08-2006, 12:18 PM
    Kasey Mackenzie
    Blonde & Bookxum

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bartholomew
    Relax, ya big silly.
    Can't help it. I am the EPITOME of a Libra.
    __________________
    06-08-2006, 12:23 PM
    crobinator
    Board fanatic

    So, Bart, has she since written any more to you?
    __________________
    06-08-2006, 01:10 PM
    Sassenach
    Inexplicability Assessment

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bartholomew

    She could be great at this, for all we know, and merely in a poor location.
    Great at this = sales.
    __________________
    06-09-2006, 10:38 PM
    OneTeam OneDream
    Captain Charisma
    Mod Squad Member

    FYI-Florissant is basically St. Louis.That means two things. #1 Its not Podunk, KY or somewhere like that. New York it ain't, but things still happen in St. Louis.#2 She shares the same city as on of the 20 Worst Agents. (Cris Robins) (And the same city as me too.....)
    __________________
    06-09-2006, 10:45 PM
    Bartholomew
    Board fanatic

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sassenach
    Great at this = sales.
    Give her one full year. Then say she sucks.

    Everyone has to start somewhere!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kasey Mackenzie
    Can't help it. I am the EPITOME of a Libra.
    I'm a Scorpio. We should hook up.
    __________________
    06-09-2006, 10:46 PM
    Bartholomew
    Board fanatic

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OneTeam OneDream
    FYI-Florissant is basically St. Louis.That means two things. #1 Its not Podunk, KY or somewhere like that. New York it ain't, but things still happen in St. Louis.#2 She shares the same city as on of the 20 Worst Agents. (Cris Robins) (And the same city as me too.....)
    PLUS its only a couple hour or so commute to Kansas City, and only a six hour commute to Chicago. I know people who do it ALL the time via Amtrak.
    __________________
    06-10-2006, 11:41 AM
    victoriastrauss
    Mod Squad Malcontentrix
    Absolute Sage

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bartholomew
    Everyone has to start somewhere!
    Yup. But in a skilled profession, "somewhere" ought to be a place that qualifies the person to do the job.

    Suppose we were discussing someone calling himself a building contractor. Suppose he told you, "My job experience is as a real estate agent, but I'm really interested in construction and I hang out on building sites a lot. And I make ship models in my spare time." Would you say "everyone has to start somewhere" and hire this person to put an addition on your house?

    It's no different with literary agents. Literary agenting is not like selling Avon products. You can't just grow into the job with some elbow grease and a great attitude. It's a skilled profession, and to do a skilled profession, you need job skills. If someone presenting themselves as a literary agent does not have these job skills (and while it's true that there's no official training or accreditation for literary agents, there are ways to acquire those skills, such as having a job in publishing or training at another agency), it's unlikely that they will be able to do the job. It really is that simple.

    "Nice" or "responsive" or "enthusiastic" are not job qualifications.

    And another thing. While the well-intentioned unskilled new agent is floundering around, trying to master the intricacies of a job she doesn't have the skills to perform, whose time is being squandered? That's right. Yours.

    - Victoria
    __________________
    Two of Eight
    06-10-2006, 02:30 PM
    Bartholomew
    Board fanatic

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by victoriastrauss
    Yup. But in a skilled profession, "somewhere" ought to be a place that qualifies the person to do the job.

    Suppose we were discussing someone calling himself a building contractor. Suppose he told you, "My job experience is as a real estate agent, but I'm really interested in construction and I hang out on building sites a lot. And I make ship models in my spare time." Would you say "everyone has to start somewhere" and hire this person to put an addition on your house?

    It's no different with literary agents. Literary agenting is not like selling Avon products. You can't just grow into the job with some elbow grease and a great attitude. It's a skilled profession, and to do a skilled profession, you need job skills. If someone presenting themselves as a literary agent does not have these job skills (and while it's true that there's no official training or accreditation for literary agents, there are ways to acquire those skills, such as having a job in publishing or training at another agency), it's unlikely that they will be able to do the job. It really is that simple.

    "Nice" or "responsive" or "enthusiastic" are not job qualifications.

    And another thing. While the well-intentioned unskilled new agent is floundering around, trying to master the intricacies of a job she doesn't have the skills to perform, whose time is being squandered? That's right. Yours.

    - Victoria
    Nice may not be a agent's qualification, but if they're neither responsive nor enthusiastic, why do I want them representing my book?

    Also, your construction analogy really doesn't hold.

    She *could* have the contacts she needs to do this. If she doesn't, time will certainly tell us, but in the meantime you're prejudging without any knowledge of the situation.

    Wouldn't it be nice if you could just plunk everyone into the same cookie cutter shape and say, "either they fit or they don't?"
    __________________
    06-10-2006, 09:06 PM
    mistri
    Sneezy Member

    If she had the contacts, she would likely have experience working for publishers or agents - rather than estate agent work as reported in the link. Seems to me as though she knows she can sell houses - enjoys reading historical fiction - and believes she can sell that too.

    Unfortunately, they're two very different businesses, so unless information comes out suggesting that she does have relevant experience, I'd be wary of sending anything her way - even if she is lovely.

    Many editors - if they receive work from an agent they haven't heard of - will Google/research the agent's name, and unless some sales (or perhaps experience with a publisher or agent) crop up, won't be impressed. I don't think networking at conferences is going to cut it.
    __________________
    I have a Livejournal
    06-10-2006, 09:27 PM
    HapiSofi
    Board fanatic
    Absolute Sage

    Bartholomew, if you're trying to talk yourself into it by telling yourself how long a drive it is from Florissant to KC or Chicago, you're trying way too hard. The industry's not in Florissant, but it isn't in KC or Chicago either, and anyway that's not the point. No experience, no sales, no can do.

    I know you want to believe it's possible for this agent to work out. It isn't. She won't. I'm sorry. You can swallow the disappointment now, or you can waste a year or two and swallow the disappointment then. Either way, it's not going to work out.

    Victoria's right. Agenting is a skilled profession. A dud agent is worse than no agent at all.
    __________________
    Winner of the Best Drycleaner on the Block Award.
    ICAO
    ---------

    Censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates in the end the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. -- Henry Steele Commager
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  2. #2
    practical experience, FTW Manat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Right next to the Atlantic Ocean
    Posts
    312
    Does anyone have any update on this agent or agency or personal experience with her ?

  3. #3
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Coastal Desert
    Posts
    13,108
    Still no trace of sales or experience in the industry. Still a pass.
    ICAO
    ---------

    Censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates in the end the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. -- Henry Steele Commager
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  4. #4
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Coastal Desert
    Posts
    13,108
    A year later: no sign of any activity, sales or otherwise.
    ICAO
    ---------

    Censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates in the end the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. -- Henry Steele Commager
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  5. #5
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Coastal Desert
    Posts
    13,108
    Site is gone without any sign of clients or sales.
    ICAO
    ---------

    Censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates in the end the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. -- Henry Steele Commager
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Custom Search