Would this be plagiarism (and how to get around it if it is?)

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blackbird

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In the novel I am currently working on, I have a character who is a young (17-year-old) Native American male. Because he is an urban Indian who has been raised in the Southeast, he has no real tribal affiliation or sense of identity (an all-too-common phenomenon for those of us who are descendants of the Chickamagua Cherokees and other indigenous people who chose not to migrate during the Trail of Tears removal). For my character, his only real connection to his "Indianness" is via the Native American books he reads and the NA writers he idolizes, people like Sherman Alexie, James Welch, Adrian C. Louis and others. My character is himself an amateur writer of sorts, and though he sees the reality of his life, that he's basically in a trapped existence, he often fantasizes that his writing will, in fact, be his ticket out.

Because these books and writers are such a vital part of his life, and these writers his role models,he often utilizes quotes and passages from them, usually as justification for events in his own life or for actions he commits. There is one scene in particular--and this is the passage in question--where he is making love to his girlfriend, who happens to be white. Among the many chaotic thoughts and jumbled impressions in his mind, he recalls the line, "Nothing is so white as the white girl an Indian boy loves," which is, of course, a well-known line from a Sherman Alexie poem. I felt like there were good reasons why my charcater would be compelled to recall that particular line, since he is himself grappling with issues of race and identity, and this would obviously be a line he is familiar with.

Okay, here's the question: The context of my passage makes it very clear that this is obviously a line my character is recalling from a published book he has read at some point in his past. I also set the line in italics so as to further emphasize that the words are neither his nor mine. It is clear that he is struggling to recall a line that has meant something to him, though he can't quite make the connection. I did not want to specifically mention Alexie or the specific poem title at that point because it would go against what I'm trying to achieve with the scene--namely, that my character cannot specifically recall where he's read or seen the line before, only that it's one of hundreds that he's tried to grasp onto to find meaning.

But even if my context makes it clear that this is a line from another source, would I be committing plagiarism by retaining the line in its present form? Would I need permission from Alexie or his publisher in order to use it in this context? Obviously, I want to do the right thing and not cause myself any undue problems. I suppose if worst comes to worst, I could revise the scene so as to get around using the actual quote, but I'd love to keep it if at all possible since I think its inclusion speaks volumes about who my character is and the issues he's struggling with. Intertextualization is in many ways a big part of what this novel is all about--that is, how the cycle of Native American identity issues are perpetuated from generation to generation via the words we pass down.
But if I do obtain permission to use the line, would I need to credit Alexie, the publisher, or both? And would it need to be written into the context of the passage, or would a simple by-line elsewhere (say in the acknowledgements) be sufficient?

Forgive me for such a long post, but I've been struggling with this question for awhile, and would appreciate any helpful or constructive feedback.
 
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maestrowork

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My take is -- if you knowingly use another person's work, you should at least credit the source (either in footnote or appendix or whatever). If the work is copyrighted material, and if your use is not covered by "fair use," you will have to ask for permission.
 

Celia Cyanide

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Could you paraphrase, but indicate that he is recalling the exact line? Sort of like when you state that a character greeted another character, instead of putting the word, "Hello" in quotation marks.

You could say:

He recalled a line he'd heard somewhere, a line that didn't mean so much to him when he first heard it as it did now, about [I'm sure you can paraphrase exactly what this line means to the character better than I can.]
 

katiemac

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I've seen many novels precede the title page with a quote or a poem. If you could garner permission to print the entire poem (and, of course, the author's name) along with the book, perhaps a "forward" of sorts would be sufficient as credit?
 

maestrowork

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Celia Cyanide said:
Could you paraphrase, but indicate that he is recalling the exact line?

That got Viswanathan into trouble. ;)

But yes, as long as you name the source, then paraphrase would be fine:

"I recall a famous quote by President John F. Kennedy that goes something like this: 'Don't question what a country can do for a citizen, but what a citizen can do for his or her country.' "
 

Pearlie

I've a similar situation with my own manuscript. It may not be pliagiarism, but copyright permission is more than probably required. Your own book, will explicity demand that no part of it be recreated or duplicated without permission. So therefore...

I believe there's a 70 year statute to copyright for the written word. So if the poem you're quoting is older , you may not need permission. Don't quote me on that. LOL

My circumstance may be more expensive. I'm writing a novel based in the sixties music scene, and quote lyrics and use real artists --mixing them in with the fictional main characters. Using a Beatle Lyric, for example, involves $100,000 up front fee to either Sony Music or Apple Records--not sure which. Pretty sad when you're emulating these folks just by writing about them. Should be considered free advertisement and promotion of their work. They should pay us!
 
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icerose

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The reason why you have to pay them and not the other way around is this, it's a who needs what.

You need their permission to use their stuff - you pay them.
They need you to use their stuff - they pay you.

You need them, thus you pay for it. Why not ammend your work so it doesn't involve any money going to them at all, like making up your own stuff?

So glad none of my works involve real people and real things like other works and music.

To the original poster, if it is under fair use, give credit to your sources at the end of your book in the appendix, so people aren't thinking you are trying to claim it as your own.

It depends on who holds the copyright as to who you need to credit. If you did obtain permission, just politely ask them to whom you should give the credit to, and they will tell you.
 
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Gillhoughly

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Use of a quote is usually okay, so long as it's short and credit is given.

Your narrative could have your character thinking:

What was it ___ ___ wrote?
Yadda-yadda-yadda.
Oh, yeah, too true, too true.

I would suggest using only one quote from one writer for the book, though. It is a device, and one shouldn't overwork those. Once for effect is fine, twice is thin ice, and three times will have people going "oh, no, not again."

I do wonder why you don't come up with your own take on the situation. It's great to be inspired by other writers, but your best job as a writer yourself is developing your own distinct voice.

A writer bud of mine with over 30 books sold once advised me to never read in the genre that I was currently writing in--that way you avoid what she called "literary incest." So if my WIP is a romance, I'll be reading anything but a romance.

Just a thought! ;)
 

Popeyesays

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Celia Cyanide said:
Could you paraphrase, but indicate that he is recalling the exact line? Sort of like when you state that a character greeted another character, instead of putting the word, "Hello" in quotation marks.

You could say:

He recalled a line he'd heard somewhere, a line that didn't mean so much to him when he first heard it as it did now, about [I'm sure you can paraphrase exactly what this line means to the character better than I can.]

An indirect quote won't do it. It's still from someone else's work, and would require a footnote in a scholarly paper. Look what happened to Steven Ambrose.

Regards,
Scott
 

emeraldcite

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celia Cyanide
Could you paraphrase, but indicate that he is recalling the exact line?


That got Viswanathan into trouble. ;)

No, she flat-out plagiarized. Teachers see that kind all the time. It's the cut, paste, alter kind of plagiarism. I don't see anything wrong with paraphrase:

"The moment reminded him of that poem about the woods by Frost."

Paraphrase.

If you quote things still under copyright, you'll have to get permissions. Look at the beginning of many of Stehen King's works (I'm thinking The Wastelands and Christine off the top of my head). Even he had to get permission for quotes from songs and poems.

Permission usually cost money.

You're best to get around it by finding things in the public domain or just refer to Kerouac's sentiment in On the Road. I think from here on out, publishers will be touchy with obvious quotes.
 

LightShadow

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maestrowork said:
My take is -- if you knowingly use another person's work, you should at least credit the source (either in footnote or appendix or whatever). If the work is copyrighted material, and if your use is not covered by "fair use," you will have to ask for permission.

Copyright protects the particular way an author has expressed himself; it does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in the work.
The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material.
When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of “fair use” would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered “fair” nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney.
 
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