XoXo Publishing / Botham Publishing / Ninni Group, Inc.

First off, I can happily say that I am an employee with XOXOPublishing since its conception. Our company is legitimate. It is unprofessional and rude for any person, whether you are a writer or other business to state our company is a scam, when in fact we are not. I would advise that you get your facts straight before making that assumption. Providing falsified information after searching for every bit you can find, then posting in online or anywhere constitutes harassment, malicious slander and cyber stalking.

bfloxword said:

When I questioned the "promotional contribution" required by the contract, my negative attitude didn't bode well for a continued relationship. They withdrew their offer. The company is from Toronto, Canada. I don't think I made a mistake in being cynical, and I don't want to give the impression that I know they are a scam.
Paul

Click to expand...

I must say that, as with any publishing company, rudeness, attitude and outright decline to help promote yourself will get any and all offers withdrawn. That isn’t just with our company. We promote our books and authors at book fairs and do book signings. We also make use of live online chats and e-loop chats. Our media department is set up to help promote our authors, but it is also the responsibility of the authors to help promote themselves, whether it be through their own website or by attending live and e-loop chats and book signings.

I think Paul, the problem is with your negative attitude. Had you been polite and willing to work with us, things could have been different. Or is it you are against Canadian publishing companies? To state “you don’t want to give the impression”, but “know” we are a scam is malicious. It would be wise to verify any and all information prior to posting anywhere. If you re-read what you originally posted, you asked about “promotional contribution”...with “contribution” being the key word. Did you not understand that you only had to contribute to the promotion of your work...we didn’t say you had to do it all yourself.

HJW said:

This 'publisher' offered someone I know a contract without even reading the whole MS. Doesn't bode well.

Click to expand...

That’s the way it works. If a story catches our attention within the first few lines or pages and we want to publish it, how is that wrong?

As for visiting the office, there are many, many people who have come to speak with us in person. I will tell you that most e-publishing companies do not have offices, in fact, about 90% of the U.S. e-publishing companies use P.O. boxes. As for getting the answering machine, that is quite common. We are extremely busy and often don’t get a chance to call people back right away.

We do have the experience and are able to handle people in the proper manner. What we don't appreciate, is when people make assumptions or false statements about us and post for all to see. This type of behaviour is not acceptable.

IAMCAD said:

First off, I can happily say that I am an employee with XOXOPublishing since its conception.

Click to expand...

Hopefully you can answer some questions, then.

I must say that, as with any publishing company, rudeness, attitude and outright decline to help promote yourself will get any and all offers withdrawn.

Click to expand...

The OP was neither rude nor showing any attitude.

If a story catches our attention within the first few lines or pages and we want to publish it, how is that wrong?

Click to expand...

This alone tells me that you don't know what you're doing. Any experienced, professional publisher would read the entire manuscript before making an offer.

We do have the experience and are able to handle people in the proper manner.

Click to expand...

And what, precisely, is your experience in publishing? Where have you worked before? What positions did you hold, and for how many years?

Also, your email to the OP mentioned that authors are responsible for "aggressively selling" their books. Could you expand on that a bit?

My comment about being rude was in response to bfloxword's posting, not the first post. As for you to say we don't know what we're doing, you are mistaken. For all publishers, whether in paperback or e-publishing, a story must first catch our attention within the first few lines or pages, otherwise it is considered trash. We always ask for and actually read the full ms before signing any contracts.

I stated if a story catches our attention within the first few pages "and" we want to publish it...I never said it was automatically published just based on the first few pages or that offers were made based on those few pages. There is a big difference in what I said and what you replied with. Our company has also declined to publish a number of stories. We don't take everything submitted.

As for my experience, I know what experience I have and so does my boss. However, you are not my employer and I don't have to answer to you.

What "email" are you talking about? I never emailed anyone...where in my previous post did i say "agressively sell"? what I mentioned was that authors need to "contribute" to the promotion, ways of doing so were mentioned above. If you actually read my previous post, you would already know the answer to your question.

I did not post to get ridiculed by people who know nothing of our company or who we are as people. I merely wanted to let you all know that our company is not scamming anyone, and in fact, we are a legitimate company.

I'm finding that people enjoy slandering others and setting a bad example for the e-publishng industry...or maybe it's because they don't like competition. Unless you have actually been involved with a company and either had a good or bad experience, you shouldn't believe what others are saying is true. There are many who would lie to make themselves look better.

IAMCAD said:

My comment about being rude was in response to bfloxword's posting, not the first post. As for you to say we don't know what we're doing, you are mistaken. For all publishers, whether in paperback or e-publishing, a story must first catch our attention within the first few lines or pages, otherwise it is considered trash. We always ask for and actually read the full ms before signing any contracts.

I stated if a story catches our attention within the first few pages "and" we want to publish it...I never said it was automatically published just based on the first few pages or that offers were made based on those few pages. There is a big difference in what I said and what you replied with. Our company has also declined to publish a number of stories. We don't take everything submitted.

As for my experience, I know what experience I have and so does my boss. However, you are not my employer and I don't have to answer to you.

What "email" are you talking about? I never emailed anyone...where in my previous post did i say "agressively sell"? what I mentioned was that authors need to "contribute" to the promotion, ways of doing so were mentioned above. If you actually read my previous post, you would already know the answer to your question.

I did not post to get ridiculed by people who know nothing of our company or who we are as people. I merely wanted to let you all know that our company is not scamming anyone, and in fact, we are a legitimate company.

I'm finding that people enjoy slandering others and setting a bad example for the e-publishng industry...or maybe it's because they don't like competition. Unless you have actually been involved with a company and either had a good or bad experience, you shouldn't believe what others are saying is true. There are many who would lie to make themselves look better.

Click to expand...

Uh...first off the word you are looking for is 'libel', not 'slander'. I would expect a professional to know the difference.

As for experience, if you or your company is not willing to divulge that information then people have to assume you have none. Why? Because every (yes every) publishing company out there shares their experience and where it came from. Why hide it? There's no shame in saying something like 'worked at x publisher for x amount of years prior' unless x publisher was a vanity or inexperienced publisher. The only reason anyone here is going to deduce is that no one at your company has the relevant experience necessary to actually sell books. Perhaps this isn't true, but you're guilting your company by association to inexperienced and less-savoury houses who don't share their experience because they don't have any. That's not a mark against you or your company. That's the reality that anyone who browsed around this forum for five minutes would see. Experience trumps all, and this is not a business where one should simply take someone's word for it.

Oh, and one more thing. Nice that you choose to be so anonymous, obviously unwilling to own up to your words. Coupled with the obvious hostility, I have to say you've done your company absolutely no favours. I'm all for new publishers, but you sir/ma'am are certainly not one that should be on anyone's list.

IAMCAD said:

I'm finding that people enjoy slandering others and setting a bad example for the e-publishng industry...or maybe it's because they don't like competition.

Click to expand...

I suggest you consider carefully whether you are actually helping your employer's reputation here. This sentence alone contains a spurious legal threat, an ad hominem attack, the "mean girls" fallacy and a typo.

IAMCAD said:

We always ask for and actually read the full ms before signing any contracts.

Click to expand...

Apparently that's not accurate, because bfloxword "recently received email contracts for 3 books they wanted to e-publish. One, only, is complete."

As for my experience, I know what experience I have and so does my boss. However, you are not my employer and I don't have to answer to you.

Click to expand...

While I'm not looking for a publisher, others here are. A sensible author always checks out a publisher's background. Your defensiveness sends up all kinds of red flags.

What "email" are you talking about? I never emailed anyone...where in my previous post did i say "agressively sell"?

Click to expand...

I'm referring to bfloxword's comment "When I questioned the "promotional contribution" required by the contract, the responder said all publishers require authors to aggressively sell their books..."

laughing too hard to comment

I am not out to sound defensive, nor do I want people to get the wrong impression. As the company has only been operational for a few months, we are trying our best. We are not perfect, nor are we inexperienced.

I can tell you that I fully support XOXOPublishing and the work we do. I am also a newly published author with this company, and proud of it. That is not being "hostile"...that is defending an honest company I work for and am published by. I make no threats whatsoever.

We don't give out contracts without receiving the full ms, read it in full, and accept it. We do not give out contracts for incomplete ms. I apologize for my wrong wording.

Our in-house media dept deals with promotions. I can tell you that book signings, live chat, e-loop chats and other promotional methods are used to help promote authors. Some participation on the author's part is required.

Each and every author is assigned a personal Editor, with whom they communicate with regularly.

There are always two sides to every story, and there are many good things about our company. To find out more about our company, all someone needs to do is contact us using the methods provided on the website and ask. Information about us is listed on the home page. If you want more detailed information, use the email on the 'contact us' page and ask. We don't bite.

I am very pleased with the work they do to publish stories. They are detail oriented, and do their best to showcase author's work.

IAMCAD said:

It is unprofessional and rude for any person, whether you are a writer or other business to state our company is a scam, when in fact we are not. I would advise that you get your facts straight before making that assumption.

Click to expand...

No one has said the company is a scam.

Providing falsified information after searching for every bit you can find, then posting in online or anywhere constitutes harassment, malicious slander and cyber stalking.

Click to expand...

What false information was provided?

And as M.R.J. pointed out, you mean "libel." Discussing one's business dealings with others in an independent forum is certainly not "harrassment," nor is it "cyber stalking." Were the OP constantly emailing you with angry obscenities, that might be "harrassment," and were the OP following you around online to post such things it might be "cyber stalking."

I must say that, as with any publishing company, rudeness, attitude and outright decline to help promote yourself will get any and all offers withdrawn. That isn’t just with our company. We promote our books and authors at book fairs and do book signings. We also make use of live online chats and e-loop chats. Our media department is set up to help promote our authors, but it is also the responsibility of the authors to help promote themselves, whether it be through their own website or by attending live and e-loop chats and book signings.

Click to expand...

Media department? Is this in-company, or an independent publicity firm? What is their experience in promotions/PR/publicity?

Yes, rudeness and attitude can be a problem. No one wants to work with someone who is rude, arrogant, and full of negativity.

To state “you don’t want to give the impression”, but “know” we are a scam is malicious.

Click to expand...

Perhaps you should work a bit on your reading comprehension. Again, no one here has said XoXo is a scam. If you're referring to bfloxword's post, what he actually said was:

I don't think I made a mistake in being cynical, and I don't want to give the impression that I know they are a scam.

Click to expand...

See? He DOESN'T want to imply that he knows you're a scam. Not "he knows you're a scam."

That’s the way it works. If a story catches our attention within the first few lines or pages and we want to publish it, how is that wrong?

Click to expand...

Because commercial publishers don't, in fact, work that way. They're investing a lot of time and money in each book they publish; they want to make sure it's good all the way through.

Yes, after a writer has some credits behind them and has earned some trust, they may be able to sell on proposal, but a proposal is far more than just a few sentences or pages. As you should know.

We do have the experience and are able to handle people in the proper manner. What we don't appreciate, is when people make assumptions or false statements about us and post for all to see. This type of behaviour is not acceptable.

Click to expand...

What is that experience? What are your credentials?

And if this thread is any indication of your ability to handle people in the proper manner...well, that speaks for itself.

You're right. Some behavior, especially from people who want others to trust their livelihoods to them, is simply unacceptable.

Stacia, I never said I was the owner or the one who runs the company on a daily basis. I have no problem dealing with people, but what I find troubling, is that when someone posts to defend a company...you all come out asking..."and what are your credentials?" I never stated that ALL publishers work the way we do.

I think in all fairness, if you want to know more about a company, you should first try contacting them directly, instead of making posts here, hoping someone would know something.

So, the defender is not only a member of the company's staff, but is also has been published by them.

Would the author care to inform us which book they have out with this company? Since they've been through the editing and publishing process, it would be a great example for people to have the opportunity to see what a finished XOXOPublishing book looks like.

Seems like it should be great advertising for the company.

Unimportant said:

What advance do you offer for novels?
What payment do you offer for short stories and artwork?
What royalty rate do you pay and how is it calculated?
What rights do you buy and for how long?
What commitments are required from the author?

Click to expand...

Repeating post for answers, and a question of my own:

Who is your distributor? (Without distribution there are no sales.)

IAMCAD, please be aware that there are a number of established professional writers and editors on the AW boards. I'm one of them, having some 20+ years of experience in the publishing industry.

Others here like Jenna Glatzner, James MacDonald, A.C. Crispin, and Victoria Strauss, have tons more cred than I. You're not dealing with unpublished unknowns or pre-teen scribblers. This is a professional level board, certainly the best one on the Net with over 7K members.

It CAN be your best friend, if you'll step back, take a breath, and see what we're about.

We're protective of new writers and understandably cautious about new publishers. If you've visited the P&E site, you'll know why.

Numbers of new publishers open their cyber doors every year. Some are sincere, but inexperienced, and others are outright scammers. We tend to err on the side of caution when someone new appears.

If you're a professional, then an automatic defensive attitude and demands for negative comments to be removed under threat of legal action tends to undermine your standing from the start. People are allowed to have opinions; telling them they're wrong doesn't improve things. Open communication about your operation, its strengths and weaknesses is what is needed.

If you would address the above questions, it would go far to reassure people.

If you have no answers to some, then just say so. No need to put a spin on things. To do so only raises suspicions.

I would be interested to know who your editors are and what previous work experience they have in publishing.

If it's just yourself, a friend, and a copy of the Chicago Manual of Style, that's perfectly okay! Everyone has to start somewhere. Ellora's Cave started out as a kitchen table operation by a gal who just wanted to get her erotica published.

Here is a link to another new publisher who was met with suspicion, but his attitude, professional calm, and willingness to address all questions--even when they were not diplomatically phrased--showed us that he did indeed know what he was doing. Perhaps he can serve as an example to you of how pros deal with a less than thumbs up attitude from cautious writers.

I think in all fairness, if you want to know more about a company, you should first try contacting them directly, instead of making posts here, hoping someone would know something.

Click to expand...

Writers who might be interested in you are going to come here first because they TRUST AW. Anyone can read a website, but websites may not have the information writers need. At this point I'm lending more credence in a third person account that it's a one-person operation in a building owned by that person's parent. If that's the truth, then we don't have a problem knowing it. See the reference to Ellora's Cave above!

THIS is your golden opportunity to tell us about yourself.

Writers are not going to trust what a company says about itself on a website, but how that company presents itself in public under the spotlight.

As I said, AW *can* be a good friend.

We look forward to hearing from you on these issues.

Richard, I only have one story which is included in an Anthology "Hate the Sin: Love the Sinner", which was completed as a fundraiser for the heart & Stroke Foundation. As I said, I am a new author.

I don't claim to be the best there is. I am very proud to have been a part of raising money for a charity. The whole process was smooth, with there being regular communication with my editor. If I had any concerns or questions, I received quick responses back.

I truly didn't mean to sound harsh or defensive, but I couldn't stand by and read what some people were saying without responding.

For specifics about payments, royalties etc, as mentioned above, I don't deal with that and cannot answer those questions. All I can say is try contacting the company for direct answers.

I am new to the publishing industry, but the people who own the company are not. I never claimed to have been an expert or professional with years and years of experience. I was merely defending a company I believe in and trust to comments posted above. I may have used the wrong wording, for that I am sorry.

IAMCAD said:

I have no problem dealing with people, but what I find troubling, is that when someone posts to defend a company...you all come out asking..."and what are your credentials?"

Click to expand...

Isn't that a legitimate question to ask of someone working for (and representing) a publisher?

I'd say that a refusal to answer such a question, or defensiveness when asked such a question, is an answer in and of itself.

Edited to add : I did a search on Amazon for "Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner", but didn't find the anthology. Then I tried searching for any titles released by "XoXo". No results.

IAMCAD,

The problem is, you came in here stating you were representing the company. Now, you can't answer questions about the company.

You said you'd been published by XOXOPublishing and now you haven't been.

When someone comes in stating things from a position of authority as you did, it is natural for people to wonder, by what right do you speak to them in such a matter.

If you're an author who's going to be published by them, that's perfectly fine.
If you're helping out, but not actually employed by them, that's fine, too.
If you're just friends with the owners and don't think your friends are getting a fair shake, that's understandable.

However, as an observer, you have categorically accused people of misstating their own experiences with XOXOPublishing, yet when asked specific questions that would back up your statements, you are unable to provide this information.

Whether it is your intent or not, you are seriously clouding the issue. If you can't answer these questions, but know the people who can, then I would recommend you approach one of them and ask them to drop by. I imagine this issue can be settled in about three to five questions.

But, interjecting yourself into this without any evidence beyond "I know you're wrong" isn't helping XOXO's situation.

I'm sorry, it just isn't.

IAMCAD said:

For specifics about payments, royalties etc, as mentioned above, I don't deal with that and cannot answer those questions. All I can say is try contacting the company for direct answers.

I am new to the publishing industry, but the people who own the company are not.

Click to expand...

Then please contact whoever DOES have those answers and have them join AW so they may address the questions in a public forum. At this point you're not helping them!

Queen of Swords said:

Isn't that a legitimate question to ask of someone working for (and representing) a publisher?

I'd say that a refusal to answer such a question, or defensiveness when asked such a question, is an answer in and of itself.

Edited to add : I did a search on Amazon for "Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner", but didn't find the anthology. Then I tried searching for any titles released by "XoXo". No results.

Click to expand...

I like the cover. A dirty book without dude abs.

Richard White said:

You said you'd been published by XOXOPublishing and now you haven't been.

Click to expand...

The book is available on the XOXO website. It was in fact published and sold in paperback and e-book format. It was not for sale on Amazon.

Any and all questions can be answered by contacting XOXO.

Even if I skipped everything else in this thread, except this:

IAMCAD said:

but what I find troubling, is that when someone posts to defend a company...you all come out asking..."and what are your credentials?"

Click to expand...

Huh? Well of course we're going to ask, it's just good business, any kind of business not just publishing. Especially if it involves a contract.

If I was going to remodel my house and I have bids from three different contractors I am going to ask them all the same thing. How long have you been in business? How much experience do you have in those years to do the job? Can you tell me any other homes you have done? Do you have a portfolio? Are you licenced? If the contractor gets annoyed at me for asking for his credentials, and can't answer the questions, I'm not going to contract him, and trust him with my house, when the other two can easily answer the questions, and should be proud to do so.

It is really the same thing, IMACAD, if it helps you at all to understand why these questions are asked. I'm sure your boss knows the answers and will hopefully pop in and tell us.

IAMCAD said:

Stacia, I never said I was the owner or the one who runs the company on a daily basis. I have no problem dealing with people, but what I find troubling, is that when someone posts to defend a company...you all come out asking..."and what are your credentials?" I never stated that ALL publishers work the way we do.

Click to expand...

No, you didn't say you were the owner. You said you were an employee (and discussed "our" media department and "our" promotional plans). We wanted to know what sort of experience and credentials their employees have, which is a perfectly legitimate question to ask.

Also, your defense of the company was really more of an attack. You didn't say, "Well, I've written a story for them, and this was my experience." You said you were an employee of the company, and as such you accused bfloxwords of "slander," harassment, and cyberstalking, as well as calling him rude and unprofessional and implying that by sharing his experience here he would be blackballed from the publishing industry.

Why do you find it troubling that we would ask questions of a representative of the company? Did you think you'd start posting as "an employee...from [the company's] inception," and we'd all just say, "Oh, okay, then," and not ask any questions in response, in a forum and thread which are set up to ask questions about the company?

I think in all fairness, if you want to know more about a company, you should first try contacting them directly, instead of making posts here, hoping someone would know something.

Click to expand...

I think in all fairness, people who want to know more about a company are entitled to gather that information in any way they choose, including posting here. This forum is to help writers make decisions about publishers based on the experiences of others, both those published with them and the opinions, thoughts, and advice of those who have years of experience in publishing and extensive knowledge of the industry.

Contacting the company directly isn't always necessary in order to formulate an opinion, especially when an employee shows up here to "defend" the company but refuses to provide any of the information they suggest we contact the company to get. You're here, so why can we not ask you here? You refused to share that information with us, so why would we assume we'd get a different answer if we contacted the company by email? And why would I email them, especially when A) I have no intention of publishing with them; and B) even if I had been interested, the behavior of one of their employees/representatives in this thread would have convinced me to take my work elsewhere?


I appreciate that you've calmed down a bit now, and I sincerely wish you the best in your career. But a small start-up with little to no experience needs to make sure their behavior is just as professional as that of the largest houses, because that behavior is all anyone has to judge them by.

.

IAMCAD said:

The book is available on the XOXO website. It was in fact published and sold in paperback and e-book format. It was not for sale on Amazon.

Click to expand...

Is there a reason it's not for sale on Amazon? Seems to me as though you could potentially reach more readers on Amazon than on XoXo's website.

From their FAQ, a few interesting items:

We provide top authors benefits™, such as:

• Proofreading
• Formatting
• Online publicity through blogs, Twitter, and over 50 other sites
• Print and radio promotions
• Exclusive marketing and publicity through The Book Promotion People
• Online book publications and printed publications
• Sale of all electronic book formats and paperbacks
• Sale of CDs, Audio and Braille, and world exclusive Stick Books™, Books in a Stick™
• Merchandise sales of our book covers, authors, designs, and more!

Click to expand...

I'm intrigued that they trademarked the phrase "top authors benefits", and troubled that they did not include "content editing" in this list.

Also:

I noticed that The Book Promotion People are offering exclusive marketing and promotional packages to XOXO Publishing™, a division of Ninni Group Inc.'s authors. Do we have to use them to promote our books?

No, you don’t, but we do prefer that you do. The Book Promotion People have set up exclusive and customized marketing and promotional packages for our authors.

Is it expensive?
No, they are exclusive packages to suit our authors' personal budgets.

Click to expand...

So the author must pay for promotion, and the publisher steers them toward this particular promotion outfit. Hmmmm.

ETA: Ah, they also expect the author to register their own copyright.