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Thread: XoXo Publishing / Botham Publishing / Ninni Group, Inc.

  1. #1
    as old as time and space... argenianpoet's Avatar
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    Question XoXo Publishing / Botham Publishing / Ninni Group, Inc.

    I am new to this community, but I want to help other writers as much as they help me. I have done extensive research into literary agents, and currently I am preparing individualized query letters for each one on my list. Anybody with questions, feel free to send me a private message.

    This is my situation: I have a small Canadian Publishing Company interested in my book, right. If this company did want to publish my book (ebook form, mind you) would this sort of information be worthy of mentioning as a credential in a query letter to a New York agent. I was advised to leave this information out and I did just that on my first query letter. I have not been rejected yet, but you know how that goes. Literary agents are a hard bunch to please, and a query letter sometimes is really not enough room to pitch your idea, but I have managed to keep mine to a page and a half so far. Do you think a New York agent would be impressed with my query letter more if I included this information; explaining that I wanted to shop my book around the US Markets before I accept a deal from a small Canadian Press? I need an expert's advice; are there any on here?

  2. #2
    Absolutely Fazed
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    I suppose it would depend on who the publisher is as to whether it would be a worthwhile credential. Look in the Index in the Bewares & Background Checks forum to see if it's been talked about. If not, start a new thread in that forum to ask about the publisher.

    And a 1 1/2 page query? Most places and agencies have said that it should only be one page. Not saying you won't interest an agency with a page-and-a-half, of course, but you might have better luck with more agencies if you can get it to one page.

  3. #3
    Fear the Death Ray maestrowork's Avatar
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    What do you mean by "interested"? If they offer you a contract, that's one thing. If they're reading your ms., then you may mention in your query that a publisher is currently reading it. Otherwise, I don't see any real reasons to mention that in your query. It doesn't really give you an credentials.

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  4. #4
    Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard. willietheshakes's Avatar
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    Who's the mysterious Canadian publishing company?

  5. #5
    as old as time and space... argenianpoet's Avatar
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    Cool sound familiar?

    Quote Originally Posted by willietheshakes
    Who's the mysterious Canadian publishing company?
    Botham Publishing.
    Last edited by argenianpoet; 08-05-2006 at 02:22 AM.

  6. #6
    Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard. willietheshakes's Avatar
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    FWIW

    For what it's worth...
    I've been working in Canadian books for almost twenty years. I've been reviewing (widely) in Canada for almost a decade. I have attended the national and regional trade fairs religiously for a decade. I read (and contribute to) the trades faithfully.

    I've never heard of Botham Publishing.

  7. #7
    as old as time and space... argenianpoet's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by willietheshakes
    For what it's worth...
    I've been working in Canadian books for almost twenty years. I've been reviewing (widely) in Canada for almost a decade. I have attended the national and regional trade fairs religiously for a decade. I read (and contribute to) the trades faithfully.

    I've never heard of Botham Publishing.
    I called a ton of Canadian Publishers; heck I even emailed the agency over all of the Canadian Publishing Companies (big and small) and none of those people had ever heard of Botham Publishing, but thanks for the extra advice.

  8. #8
    Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard. willietheshakes's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm misunderstanding - you called publishers to ask if they had heard of another publisher?

  9. #9
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    Botham is an e(& POD?)publisher which as far as I know has not published anything yet--they haven't even put up their webpage yet although they have registered the domain 'bothampublishing.com'.

    It certainly cannot be assumed that this is a publishing credit that will impress the 'big guys'.
    Emily Veinglory

  10. #10
    'Twas but a dream of thee El Jefe MacAllister's Avatar
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    I'm moving this to the Bewares & Background Check board. Sorry for the dislocation, hope nobody got motion sick. *g*

  11. #11
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by argenianpoet
    This is my situation: I have a small Canadian Publishing Company interested in my book, right. If this company did want to publish my book (ebook form, mind you) would this sort of information be worthy of mentioning as a credential in a query letter to a New York agent.
    No. An ebook is only rarely considered a publishing credit, and an ebook with Botham would definitely not be considered a credit: the agent would have never heard of them, their quality is unproven, etc.

    Do you think a New York agent would be impressed with my query letter more if I included this information; explaining that I wanted to shop my book around the US Markets before I accept a deal from a small Canadian Press?
    Doubly no. Don't try to explain anything in a query letter. Read the "Ask the Agents" forum for why.

    ETA: http://www.entrewomen.ca/markeplace_show.cfm?id=904

    Botham Publishing a div of Ninni Group Inc

    Canada's first multilingual publisher of ebooks, and publishing/books on demands for all categories of writing, fiction and non fiction, art/ illustrators,photographers, software programmers, and essays. For children, young adults, adults, and mature adults.
    Last edited by CaoPaux; 05-16-2006 at 01:19 AM.
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  12. #12
    wishes you happiness JennaGlatzer's Avatar
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    Mostly just echoing Cao here. No, this isn't something to mention in your query letter. If anything, it would look bad for you, because it shows that you're seriously considering publishing the book with a new e-publisher that no one's ever heard of. That doesn't show much confidence in your book's worth.
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  13. #13
    as old as time and space... argenianpoet's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoPaux
    No. An ebook is only rarely considered a publishing credit, and an ebook with Botham would definitely not be considered a credit: the agent would have never heard of them, their quality is unproven, etc.

    Doubly no. Don't try to explain anything in a query letter. Read the "Ask the Agents" forum for why.

    ETA: http://www.entrewomen.ca/markeplace_show.cfm?id=904
    Thanks for the advice Caopaux. I wonder, how hard is it to get a Big U.S. Publisher interested in your book first, so you can then hook the agent you want?

  14. #14
    Gone
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    Quote Originally Posted by argenianpoet
    I wonder, how hard is it to get a Big U.S. Publisher interested in your book first, so you can then hook the agent you want?
    That depends mostly on your book. If it's well written, interesting, fresh, and has a goodly number of potential readers, it should be easy. If it's not, somewhat harder.
    Winner of Uncle Jim's Whoo Hoo Super Writer Award and Nomad's Most Use of Vowels in a Screen Name Award as well as Maryn's Only Person on AW Whose Name Anagrams to "I, Octane," "Act I (One)" and "Nice tao" Award in addition to batgirl's Culpeper Award for Botanically Erudite Screen Name plus awatkins' AW's Most Creative Srounger [sic] of Rep Points Award not to mention azbikergirl's Arizona Most Awarded Writer Award and also Dawno's Most Interesting Signature Line Award

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    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by argenianpoet
    I wonder, how hard is it to get a Big U.S. Publisher interested in your book first, so you can then hook the agent you want?
    If you've got a non-romance novel, this is backwards. Get the agent first, who'll submit to the big publishers for you. A couple of reasons for this:

    - Much of Big Publishing in the US is closed to unagented fiction authors. Imprints that do claim to look at unagented work give it rock-bottom priority. In other words, any author with an agent will always be ahead of you.

    - If you were able to buck the odds and get a contract offer from one of the big boys, an agent might eagerly take you on in order to get the commission--whether or not she really liked your work. You'd then be stuck with an agent who might not effectively represent your future books.

    - Victoria

  16. #16
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veinglory View Post
    Botham is an e(& POD?)publisher which as far as I know has not published anything yet--they haven't even put up their webpage yet although they have registered the domain 'bothampublishing.com'.

    It certainly cannot be assumed that this is a publishing credit that will impress the 'big guys'.
    One (1) author claimed at least three different projects due out with them in 2006. No sign of 'em, or anything else published by Brotham or its "Satisfy You and Me" division. No indication the websites ever materialized, either.
    ICAO
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  17. #17
    practical experience, FTW HJW's Avatar
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    XoXo Publishing

    http://www.xoxopublishing.com/

    Does anyone know anything about this company?

    Thanks.

  18. #18
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Interesting bit on Piers Anthony's site:
    XoXo PUBLISHING This is a division of Ninni Group Inc. I received a stern letter demanding removal of my entry on this publisher, which I had not heard of, so naturally I am now adding it. It seems they confused me with Preditors and Editors. I set them straight. Unfortunately, my system doesn't have the software required to read their site, so all I can tell you is from their letter. They appear to be open for submissions, and their lawyer is working on their contract. They threaten legal action against reports they don't like.
    A previous divison of Ninni, Botham Publishing, didn't last long. The fact that XoXo claims to date back to 2006 makes me think this is a relaunch.

    Couple other discussions: http://karenknowsbest.com/2009/09/20...has-a-new-job/ and http://www.erecsite.com/2009/09/mark...ublishing.html
    Last edited by CaoPaux; 03-27-2010 at 07:54 PM. Reason: threads merged, link moot
    ICAO
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  19. #19
    practical experience, FTW HJW's Avatar
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    Thanks CAO.

  20. #20
    figuring it all out bfloxword's Avatar
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    I recently received email contracts for 3 books they wanted to e-publish. One, only, is complete. The contracts called for the author to aggressively promote the books. A Google showed me the person who sent the contracts is very involved in a book promotion company. Their first publications seem to have been erotica, though their limited catalog has a variety of topics. They claim, too, to be starting a new wing to publish youth and spiritual books.

    When I questioned the "promotional contribution" required by the contract, the responder said all publishers require authors to aggressively sell their books, and that my negative attitude didn't bode well for a continued relationship. They withdrew their offer.

    The company is from Toronto, Canada. I don't think I made a mistake in being cynical, and I don't want to give the impression that I know they are a scam.

    Anyone have more to say about xoxo publishing?

    Paul

  21. #21
    Banned for Spamming profen4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfloxword View Post
    I recently received email contracts for 3 books they wanted to e-publish. One, only, is complete. The contracts called for the author to aggressively promote the books. A Google showed me the person who sent the contracts is very involved in a book promotion company. Their first publications seem to have been erotica, though their limited catalog has a variety of topics. They claim, too, to be starting a new wing to publish youth and spiritual books.

    When I questioned the "promotional contribution" required by the contract, the responder said all publishers require authors to aggressively sell their books, and that my negative attitude didn't bode well for a continued relationship. They withdrew their offer.

    The company is from Toronto, Canada. I don't think I made a mistake in being cynical, and I don't want to give the impression that I know they are a scam.

    Anyone have more to say about xoxo publishing?

    Paul
    yikes -- I'd say you dodged a bullet there. Be happy they dropped you!
    Last edited by CaoPaux; 03-04-2016 at 01:15 AM. Reason: code weirdness

  22. #22
    Who's going for a beer? waylander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfloxword View Post

    When I questioned the "promotional contribution" required by the contract, the responder said all publishers require authors to aggressively sell their books, and that my negative attitude didn't bode well for a continued relationship. They withdrew their offer.
    No they don't
    You dodged a bullet

  23. #23
    So many ideas, never enough time. michael_b's Avatar
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    All reputable publishers, even the small ones help authors promote their work, they do not rely on their authors to do the promotion.

    Frankly it looks bad--IMO--if a publisher can't be bothered to get out there and help their authors promote.
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  24. #24
    practical experience, FTW HJW's Avatar
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    You had a lucky escape, I think.

    This 'publisher' offered someone I know a contract without even reading the whole MS. Doesn't bode well.

  25. #25
    figuring it all out bfloxword's Avatar
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    update on xoxo

    Certainly, nothing has changed regarding knowing whether this is legitimate. A fellow writer who says he has some experience in negotiating tried to visit them in Toronto while he was downtown.

    He was unable to discover anything because the door to the street could only be opened from the outside with a key and there was no way of summoning anyone to open the door.

    A person in a local coffeehouse told him they believed the person with the publishing thing in that building is the daughter of the owner of the building.

    Repeated telephone calls to their number resulted only in 'leave a message' recordings.

    So, as you see, nothing is resolved. Perhaps they have a good business idea but are so inexperienced at business that they don't know how to handle people. I simply invite anyone interested to watch their website and do a Google/Bing/whateva occasionally to see what happens to them.

    P

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