Question about publishing two novels with similar plots

mlred

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Hello,
Two years ago my debut novel (through trade publisher) was published. The publisher asked that I write a sequel due to it's success so I began working on one. Without going into too much detail, it was found out that the trade publisher was keeping royalties from all their authors and was facing a lawsuit. Since I didn't want to give another novel to a publisher (that wasn't paying me) and they owned the rights to my novel, I tweaked the sequel quite a bit to make the story it's own (changed character names, etc). Long story short, I got the rights back to my first novel and self-published it to try to get some money and it did well, in my opinion.

So, the "sequel" is finished and I want to query literary agents. I tweaked the "sequel" so much that it no longer makes sense to be a sequel to the first novel (and I had fallen in love with the characters and story so much I didn't want to change it back), but do I mention the first novel as publishing experience in the query letter, or do I act as if this is my first novel ever written? I am going to use a pen name moving forward (I used my legal name for the first novel).

In short, I guess my question is: If Richard Bachman wrote a novel about a girl who was telekinetic and went on a revenge-murder spree, and then Stephen King* wrote a novel about a telekinetic girl who goes on a revenge-murder spree, but all the names and motives were different, would that be acceptable to agents/readers? (*Or an author who does not have Stephen King's notoriety and couldn't get away with writing two novels with the same very basic plot)
 

mlred

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No, the publisher went bankrupt and gave all the author's their rights back. They are now out of business.
 

Aggy B.

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Okay, so unless the original contract was for two books the publisher owned *no* rights to the second book. (Asking you to write a sequel to something, and having an existing contract for multiple books are not the same thing.) If there was no contract then you are (and were) under no obligation to change the book to be different than anything you might have talked with the publisher about.

Also, having the rights back to the first and a nullified contract means you are under no obligation to that publisher anyway.

So, the question is: do the tweaks and changes produce a better book than if you worked on it to make it a proper sequel? Or, could you perhaps make it a series? I.E The content is similar because your stories revolve around a particular phenomenon in the story world, but the characters are not the same. (Unlike duology/trilogy projects which typically focus on the same character or set of characters throughout.) I do think there would be challenges in selling a book that is very similar to your first, but not revolving around the same characters or world, but you have to pick the strongest version of the story as well.
 

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Hello,
Two years ago my debut novel (through trade publisher) was published. The publisher asked that I write a sequel due to it's success so I began working on one. Without going into too much detail, it was found out that the trade publisher was keeping royalties from all their authors and was facing a lawsuit. Since I didn't want to give another novel to a publisher (that wasn't paying me) and they owned the rights to my novel, I tweaked the sequel quite a bit to make the story it's own (changed character names, etc). Long story short, I got the rights back to my first novel and self-published it to try to get some money and it did well, in my opinion.

So, the "sequel" is finished and I want to query literary agents. I tweaked the "sequel" so much that it no longer makes sense to be a sequel to the first novel (and I had fallen in love with the characters and story so much I didn't want to change it back), but do I mention the first novel as publishing experience in the query letter, or do I act as if this is my first novel ever written? I am going to use a pen name moving forward (I used my legal name for the first novel).

When you query, you query one book. Just one. I wouldn't bother mentioning the first book in your query as it sounds as though you worked with a not-very-good publisher, and it's all over now anyway.

If and when you find an agent willing to represent you, tell them before you sign. Tell them everything. Do not risk spoiling your relationship with your agent by letting them find out about it from anyone other than you.

In short, I guess my question is: If Richard Bachman wrote a novel about a girl who was telekinetic and went on a revenge-murder spree, and then Stephen King* wrote a novel about a telekinetic girl who goes on a revenge-murder spree, but all the names and motives were different, would that be acceptable to agents/readers? (*Or an author who does not have Stephen King's notoriety and couldn't get away with writing two novels with the same very basic plot)

You are neither Bachman nor King.

If you're relying on a pseudonym to separate the two publications, think again.

If the plot of the two books are so similar that you need to point out that the character names are a significant difference, then I wonder if they actually are two different books.
 

Cyia

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No, the publisher went bankrupt and gave all the author's their rights back. They are now out of business.

INAL, but --

Are you absolutely certain that the rights reverted? Bankruptcy doesn't automatically mean this. If your rights weren't reverted, then your book could have been included in the assets of the company during bankruptcy.
 

Old Hack

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That's an excellent point, Cyia. If a publishing company goes bankrupt then the rights it holds are assets of the company and cannot legally be reverted by anyone apart from the administrator appointed to wind the company down. Even if the publisher issues rights reversions letters prior to declaring bankruptcy the administrator can claw those rights back, as such reversions can represent an illegal dispersion of the company's assets.
 

Davy The First

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You say

"I tweaked the "sequel" so much that it no longer makes sense to be a sequel to the first novel (and I had fallen in love with the characters and story so much I didn't want to change it back)"

Which suggests, the 'sequel' is quite different from the original, even to the point that the characters are different. If that is truly the case, my advice would be to forget about the original, on every level, in every way, UNTIL, you obtain an agent, and then explain what happened previously.
Your agent can then decide the best way forward. In other words, you can NOT use the success of the original to aid you in finding an agent, as there's too much uncertainty surrounding it, legally and otherwise. But if an agent likes the new novel, then you explain at that point.
Hope that makes sense.
 
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LaneHeymont

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You say

my advice would be to forget about the original, on every level, in every way, UNTIL, you obtain an agent, and then explain what happened previously.
Your agent can then decide the best way forward. In other words, you can NOT use the success of the original to aid you in finding an agent, as there's too much uncertainty surrounding it, legally and otherwise. But if an agent likes the new novel, then you explain at that point.
Hope that makes sense.

Don't ever mislead your agent or an interested agent. I don't know about others, but I tend to fire clients when I discover they intentionally misled me. The agent-author relationship is a sacred thing, trust being a major factor. A client needs to trust I know what I'm doing and out there fighting for what they want. I need to able to trust a client, otherwise we can both end up looking unprofessional and burning bridges.

OP, your predicament depends on how different this "sequel" really is. You might want to have a beta read both books and give their thoughts.
 

Davy The First

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Don't ever mislead your agent or an interested agent. I don't know about others, but I tend to fire clients when I discover they intentionally misled me. The agent-author relationship is a sacred thing, trust being a major factor. A client needs to trust I know what I'm doing and out there fighting for what they want. I need to able to trust a client, otherwise we can both end up looking unprofessional and burning bridges.

OP, your predicament depends on how different this "sequel" really is. You might want to have a beta read both books and give their thoughts.
Just to clarify - we're in agreement, right? Or do you think I was suggesting misleading an agent?
 

Aggy B.

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Just to clarify - we're in agreement, right? Or do you think I was suggesting misleading an agent?

I think perhaps we're raising an eyebrow at the suggestion that you reveal all this info *after* you land an agent. You lay it out for them in the first phone call. Otherwise, you're misleading them.
 

LaneHeymont

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I think perhaps we're raising an eyebrow at the suggestion that you reveal all this info *after* you land an agent. You lay it out for them in the first phone call. Otherwise, you're misleading them.

This. Tell them everything before you sign. I loathe finding out something I should have known from the first phone call.
 

Davy The First

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You say

"I tweaked the "sequel" so much that it no longer makes sense to be a sequel to the first novel (and I had fallen in love with the characters and story so much I didn't want to change it back)"

Which suggests, the 'sequel' is quite different from the original, even to the point that the characters are different. If that is truly the case, my advice would be to forget about the original, on every level, in every way, UNTIL, you obtain an agent, and then explain what happened previously.
Your agent can then decide the best way forward. In other words, you can NOT use the success of the original to aid you in finding an agent, as there's too much uncertainty surrounding it, legally and otherwise. But if an agent likes the new novel, then you explain at that point.
Hope that makes sense.

I think perhaps we're raising an eyebrow at the suggestion that you reveal all this info *after* you land an agent. You lay it out for them in the first phone call. Otherwise, you're misleading them.

This. Tell them everything before you sign. I loathe finding out something I should have known from the first phone call.
Hi Lane.
Great to see an agent giving their time to AW, much appreciated.

Re my statement, from which I've taken an excerpt below. I'm not quite sure how if has been misinterpreted. The second sentence 'the agent can then decide the best way forward,' should really remove any lingering uncertainty, at least, to me. :)

The agent can only 'decide' the best way forward if he or she has the info regarding the issue (sequel/ prev publisher etc).

Meaning I'm saying tell the agent the info. And 'best way forward' indicates to proceed, ie, to begin.

I don't think any writer, especially one who is at the level of producing a saleable manuscript could be of the mind, 'Aha! The contract is signed! The ink is dry! Now I can reveal the terrible truth, before you begin proceedings, and there's nothing you can do about it! Muhahaha." :)
That just wouldn't make sense. Not least that a lie of omission would nullify a standard contract, never mind the more personal/ relationship based contract between agent and client.

The only thing I can think of, that might have engendered misunderstanding, is the phrase 'obtain an agent,' which might suggest to some that 'obtaining' and agent is like obtaining a loan, ie, once the contract is signed, and the 10 day waiting period is over, that's it. I just can't see how an adult human being would view 'obtaining' an agent in the same way as obtaining a loan, but in fairness, I suppose it's not impossible.

ETA. Looking again at my original post, I can see that 'obtaining an agent and then explain' could well be interpreted as signing with an agent before you explain the situation. So yes, bit of word confusion there. But, in terms of meaning, for a writer to believe they can 'reveal the truth' after signing , and then proceed, in the belief that there's nothing an agent could do about it, is well, beyond crazy, even in these crazy days.

Anyway, we are on the same page, and I'm glad I asked if that were the case.

"...my advice would be to forget about the original, on every level, in every way, UNTIL, you obtain an agent, and then explain what happened previously.
Your agent can then decide the best way forward.
 
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Aggy B.

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The only thing I can think of, that might have engendered misunderstanding, is the phrase 'obtain an agent,' which might suggest to some that 'obtaining' and agent is like obtaining a loan, ie, once the contract is signed, and the 10 day waiting period is over, that's it. I just can't see how an adult human being would view 'obtaining' an agent in the same way as obtaining a loan, but in fairness, I suppose it's not impossible.

ETA. Looking again at my original post, I can see that 'obtaining an agent and then explain' could well be interpreted as signing with an agent before you explain the situation. So yes, bit of word confusion there. But, in terms of meaning, for a writer to believe they can 'reveal the truth' after signing , and then proceed, in the belief that there's nothing an agent could do about it, is well, beyond crazy, even in these crazy days.

So "obtain" means "to gain or attain usually by planned action or effort". I'm glad you realized that's not the right word for what you're trying to describe. And, yes, it might seem like folks would know a contract isn't completely binding. But it's not just an issue of folks thinking once they sign the contract the agent can't get rid of them, it's an issue of folks not realizing that withholding that kind of info is deceptive and damaging to their credibility as an author. (Because not only will you have gotten off on the wrong foot with your agent, but with other agents in the business when agent #1 tells their friends "Hey, this person flat out waited to tell me all this info 'til after we signed a contract and can't be trusted to be upfront about things.")

I, personally, have an extremely cynical nature and research *everything*, but plenty of folks don't. Partly because when you're new you don't even know what to research. So, you have to be careful when handing out advice that you aren't using words carelessly because what you assume to be obvious may very well not be. (Clearly. Since we thought you were saying to wait 'til after you reached an agreement for representation to tell the agent. And that's because of your word choice. As you have clarified, that's good - we're on the same page. But, yanno, word choice is important and we are writers. If you throw the wrong word out there and just assume that because you understand what you mean everyone else will too, your advice becomes not just bad advice, but damaging advice.)
 

Davy The First

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So "obtain" means "to gain or attain usually by planned action or effort". I'm glad you realized that's not the right word for what you're trying to describe.

Well it's not so much the word itself, Although it doesn't help - but the misconception around the process. Some folk might well believe that an agent is obtained (ie signed) much like one obtains a solicitor. When in fact is a discussion/ exploration, at which time the issue would and should be brought up. The phrase should have been 'engage with', or 'open discussions with'. Would have saved a lotta confusion...


And, yes, it might seem like folks would know a contract isn't completely binding. But it's not just an issue of folks thinking once they sign the contract the agent can't get rid of them, it's an issue of folks not realizing that withholding that kind of info is deceptive and damaging to their credibility as an author. (Because not only will you have gotten off on the wrong foot with your agent, but with other agents in the business when agent #1 tells their friends "Hey, this person flat out waited to tell me all this info 'til after we signed a contract and can't be trusted to be upfront about things.")

Yes, very much so. Or 'This' in the language of expediency.

I, personally, have an extremely cynical nature and research *everything*, but plenty of folks don't. Partly because when you're new you don't even know what to research. So, you have to be careful when handing out advice that you aren't using words carelessly because what you assume to be obvious may very well not be. (Clearly. Since we thought you were saying to wait 'til after you reached an agreement for representation to tell the agent. And that's because of your word choice. As you have clarified, that's good - we're on the same page. But, yanno, word choice is important and we are writers. If you throw the wrong word out there and just assume that because you understand what you mean everyone else will too, your advice becomes not just bad advice, but damaging advice.)
This.
(I agree/ mea culpa)
 
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