What do you think of non-white writers writing stories that DON'T have diversity?

AndreaX

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I was thinking about this today when looking through another thread I made about YA leveling out. There were those that said that diversity seems to be a big 'trend' right now, though we all agree we hope that it won't be a trend but a permanent thing.

But I was also wondering about what you thought about writers who are not white for example, but do not write stories reflecting cultural diversity.

I wonder if there is an expectation on the part of publishers and agents now that if a non-white writer writes books, he or she should have a culturally diverse cast or write a story that reflects his or her culture or else something isn't right.

So do you think non-white writers have the opposite problem now? Whereas before they were forced to write white characters even if they don't want to, now they're being told that the are expected to write non-white characters even if they don't want to?
 

RoseDG

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My husband feels this way a bit, and he is Filipino. But he really enjoys European history, classical music, etc -- so I could see him writing a book that isn't "diverse enough" at some point.

I say let people write what they want -- I think there's too much stress over this issue right now.
 

ManInBlack

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This partially comes down to the difference between diversity and inclusivity. Discussions fo the former (especially in terms of whether someone "should" include it) tends to feature a lot of tokenism, accusations of checklists, and defensive statements that "it doesn't matter that all the humans are white and traditionally attractive because look at that green-skinned alien!". (Note that that's not all of the things the word means, just the ones that tend to crop up and distract from the discussion, leading to it not always being the best word to use.) Inclusivity is about focusing on including everybody in the audience, which means either through explicit (e.g. skin color) or implicit (e.g. casually including non-neurotypical or non-Western ways of thinking).

My way of thinking is that anything that's written for mass-consumption should at least make an effort to be inclusive. It's always tricky when writing about fairly homogeneous cultures (some will be frustrated that small-percentage groups such as racial minorities in ancient Rome tend to be portrayed as non-existent, while others will be frustrated about over-inflating these groups for the sake of the modern audience), but I do think it's something that people should keep in mind. At the moment I'm writing a script set in Victorian Europe; I don't have much leeway for racial diversity, but I'm attempting to include other under-represented groups in important roles. This helps to avoid being a retread of "everyone is straight and white" in the way you often see in fiction, which I consider an indication of either laziness or lack of ability to write outside of what is common.
 

danatcsimpson

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So do you think non-white writers have the opposite problem now? Whereas before they were forced to write white characters even if they don't want to, now they're being told that the are expected to write non-white characters even if they don't want to?

No one is being forced to write non-white characters, so I really doubt this is much of an issue. Most books are still about white people by a huuuge margin. Comprehensive stats on this are hard to come by, but in US children's lit, as of 2016, just 21% of books submitted for study were about POC, and a mere 12% of authors were themselves POC.

If a hypothetical black author writes a knock-em-out fantastic novel about Bronze Age Ireland, I don't think the whiteness of the cast is going to be the main stumbling block to getting that book published, you know?
 

Laer Carroll

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Reminders that people come in all shades of color and culture are useful, but I hate it when the suggestion to diversify becomes a shrill shout, an absolute command. Then it becomes an attempt to coerce artistic imaginations. And probably does more harm than good, inciting backlashes.
 

Anna Iguana

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but I hate it when the suggestion to diversify becomes a shrill shout, an absolute command.

Can you give an example of that, Laer? I'm asking as somebody who would like to be giving reminders that are helpful rather than shouting.
 

Odile_Blud

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It doesn't bother me. I'm a black writer. Most of the characters in my stories are white. A good story is a good story, and I think it's important to focus on their development and the experiences they go through rather than their race.
 

Lady Ice

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It does bug me when writers from a minority group are treated as if they must write a polemical or be definitive of their social group.
 

MaeZe

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Can you give an example of that, Laer? I'm asking as somebody who would like to be giving reminders that are helpful rather than shouting.

Perhaps it's in how the question was asked in the OP (not saying it was meant to come out that way). You want to write the characters that belong in the story.

I'm a proponent of bringing the Bechdel Test to the public's attention. It is so important to call attention to how the media portrays ethnic groups and genders. I'd be shocked if one could find a heroine in a movie before the 80s that was actually the hero and not the faux hero rescued by a man one or more times in the movie.

And hopefully by now we know literature needs many more ethnic characters that are not stereotypical villains. But why should that be the responsibility of any writer, let alone a non-white writer?
 
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DanielaTorre

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It does bug me when writers from a minority group are treated as if they must write a polemical or be definitive of their social group.

I kind of, sort of agree with you. Not so much "obligated" to write a polemical story about culture and oppression, but rather "overlooked" by those who seeking their definition of diversity. I'm a Latina woman. I came across agent after agent after publisher seeking diversity and the one main thing I saw was they wanted diverse books only if they were about the culture, struggle, oppression, etc. Never mind the fact that the writer is actually diverse. :Shrug:

I appreciate these sort of books. However, as a Latina, I don't want to be pigeonholed into constantly writing about my culture or language or struggles. I just want to write a good story just like everyone else. I don't want to be their definition of diverse; I want to be included. Does that make sense?
 
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Max Vaehling

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I've come to expect inclusivity in books (and, even more so, movies and TV shows) and get frustrated when everybody's white, straight and male. No matter who wrote it. But I wouldn't place the responsibility for getting that right with the non-diverse writers. If anything, they get a pass for already writing the(ir) Other. It's something I expect from current stories in general.

The difference between white male writers and everybody else is one of perspective and experience, not of casting. We all bring our unique perspectives to the table and I want to see that from as many different voices as possible. And there's no need to expect or demand that - it'll happen, even if it's in the most subtle ways. It always has.

The only people I expect to git with the program and widen their scope are us white dudes. Because we've shown over and over that we needed a nudge or two. But that'll happen if (and hopefully when) the current trend towards inclusivity becomes the norm. We'll want to stay relevant and write the stories that people want to read, after all.
 
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RWrites

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This is my point of view and how I feel btw. It's not about diversity, it's about the fact that some writers are ignorant and have non-white cultures viewed as rough/poor/whatever. It's the fact POC characters are killed off and the white characters are viewed as saviors or better. Diversity doesn't have to be there, but so many people are jumping on this train without even properly researching. It's becoming a trend and when it ends, no one will care about diversity. We'll be where we started, fighting to see ourselves even though there's so many of us. We all know stories are important and if we internalize these hurtful message in books, we could do hurtful things. I frankly don't care(most of the time) if there is little to none diversity. What I do care about is the little diversity that is there is written correctly or at least not so poorly. Again, my point of view and this what I feel. This is not fact.
 

tesda

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Well, as someone who is POC, it doesn't bother me that I don't write characters who are diverse. For me, it's just a story. Most of my stories also doesn't mention if the character is white, black, hispanic, asian, or whatever so readers are free to imagine how the character looks like.
 

Fullon_v4.0

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These two points I feel sum it up.

If it's commercial work/writing for the "trend of the month", then yes, it makes sense for an author, regardless of race, to be inclusive. However, in no way should an author feel obligated to include other races/backgrounds/orientations in their work though. It defeats the creative process if one is forced to include elements that weren't intended for the original story.

If it means anything, I'm five different races including African, Austrian and Caribbean, and most of my characters are white females, partly because most of my family and friends are such ;)
 

April Swanson

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It really, really annoys me when pressure is put on POC to only write about their culture and experience, like it's their job to expand everyone else's minds. I also think that diversity in authors and publishing is more important than characters in a book. Unlike TV/Film etc, you don't pay someone to play a role in a book. What's the point in having a diverse range of characters in fiction when, out in the real world, it's the same old story where 'heterosexual white male' is normal, and everyone else is the other?

I also really dislike it when diversity is viewed as a 'trend', like it's something that will fade when people get bored. I'm also worried by the news that Penguin are launching an imprint for diverse books in Children/YA. It's like, okay, not in the In group? then you guys go over here in your special box. I suppose it's a step in the right direction, but it does feel misguided... *shrug*
 

RaggyCat

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To add to this - I'm all for people writing the story they want to write as they want to write it. I don't see why pressure should be put on any author to only write about groups which he/she is part of (whether white or POC). To me, this is limiting freedom of expression and actually quite insulting - it's like saying that an author has nothing to share beyond their own world or culture. Don't get me wrong, of course there's value to a marginalised author writing about characters who share their background, but their writing career is going to be unfairly limited if that's all they are seen as good for writing about.

As a white author, I would probably steer away from writing a book from the POV of a POC character because I simply don't possess the in-depth experience or knowledge, but I certainly do include characters who are POC, because that is reflective of real life. However, I make sure I do research and depict these characters as respectfully and accurately as I can.
 

Mel101

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Every once and a while I think about the possibility of being pigeon-holed into "POC author" and only garnering interest because of my experience of being black in America. But then I KNOW that if my writing is great, the only color anyone will care about is green. If they can sell a book, I think all of the other stuff will (hopefully) take a back seat.

I tend to naturally write diverse casts (and interracial romance subplots) because that's my world. But if another writer doesn't have that experience, they shouldn't feel pressured into writing it. I think that way leads to a sort of censorship/stifling of the art.

There's my .02!