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Thread: Alabama Senate Race

  1. #1
    Lost in the Fog rugcat's Avatar
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    Alabama Senate Race

    We already have a Roy Moore thread, but I'm interested in the upcoming election and the effect it will have.

    The polls have it as a tight race, but there are so many factors including how strongly African-Americans will turn out, whether how many Republicans who are concerned with the alegations will vote anyway or stay home, etc., that it's pretty hard to predict the winner.

    I'd like to think that Alabamans will reject Moore, not only for his predatory sexual behavior, but because he is simply an awful choice to be a US senator.

    On the other hand, he was removed from his chief justice office for defying a federal court order, and was promptly reelected to that same position by the voters.

    I think he's going to win, and probably by more votes than expected.

    Meanwhile, as Republicans fall all over themselves to support him, there is this bit of refreshing speech from Mitt Romney:

    "Roy Moore in the US Senate would be a stain on the GOP and on the nation. Leigh Corfman and other victims are courageous heroes. No vote, no majority is worth losing our honor, our integrity.
    1:44 PM - Dec 4, 2017"
    For a man who is known for his waffling, you can't be much more direct than that.

    I've never been much of a fan of Romney, but he is considering a run for Senate himself, pushing out Orrin Hatch. I really hope he does – no Democrat is going to be elected in Utah anyway, and he would be far preferable to Hatch, who has the intellectual capacity of a cauliflower and the moral spine of a banana slug. If Romney decided to run, he would easily crush Hatch and become the republican nominee.
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  2. #2
    practical experience, FTW Davy The First's Avatar
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    Re Romney, for sure, better than Hatch.

    But, well, I can never forgive him for seeking the Sec of State job under a 'fraud' and 'con artist', like Trump. The photo of him dining with Donnie, who ate steak, while Romney ate crow, will never be erased from my memory.

    Re Moore, I think the GOP lose either way, but one way, in the short term, the other way, in the long term. I'd prefer short, as things stand
    Last edited by Davy The First; 12-06-2017 at 05:30 AM.

  3. #3
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    I contributed to the Jones campaign, and let me tell you, I am getting swamped with emails from one big-Democratic-hitter after another asking for more money. Three emails from James Carville and Kamala Harris, just in the last two days. (Obvs from Move-On, but they put the name in the From line of the email.)

    The Dems are really invested in this election (for good reason) and it makes me a little nervous. If they throw so many resources in this thing and come up empty, are they going to get gun shy about the next one?

    I'm with you, rugcat, that I think Moore is going to eke this out now that Trump's all-in and the other repug...er, Repubs are piling on with the endorsements. It sure gives Alabamans who want to vote for Moore cover. *need throw-up emoji*

    Quote Originally Posted by Davy The First View Post
    Re Moore, I think the GOP lose either way, but one way, in the short term, the other way, in the long term. I'd prefer short, as things stand
    That's a good point. I wish we were in a position to sit safely back and observe. It would be quality watching.
    Last edited by ElaineA; 12-06-2017 at 05:39 AM.

  4. #4
    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    If the Republicans think they are getting a simple Senate vote on their team from Moore, they may be in for a very rude awakening. Moore is going to be a high profile thorn as he's very outspoken, and not in a good a way, about any number of issues.

    Alabama's Roy Moore would be the most extreme senator — with huge consequences for Congress
    His beliefs include:
    911 was God punishing the US for immoral behavior.
    Sharia law is a threat and already being implemented in some US cities.
    Muslims should be banned from Congress.
    McConnell needs to go.
    The Ten Commandments should be law. (Of course that one on not bearing false witness will not apply to him.)
    GOP excuses Roy Moore’s attacks on Sandy Hook victims: “He’s going to be for tax reform”

    Like 911:
    Alabama GOP Senate nominee Roy Moore suggested that the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre was divine punishment. Republicans apparently have no problem with that....

    Some of Moore’s most disgusting and widely reported statements were his insinuations that 9/11 and the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting were divine punishments against the United States for forgetting “the law of God” and for allowing “legitimized sodomy.”
    And Republicans do not seem to have any problem with it.
    A new poll from Decision Desk HQ indicates that 78.7 percent of Republicans in Alabama still intend to vote for Moore, despite his extremist record and his vile beliefs.
    CNN: Senate candidate Roy Moore in 2005: 'Homosexual conduct should be illegal'
    Moore has been a staunch opponent of LGBT rights throughout his career. Last September he was suspended from Alabama's Supreme Court for failing to comply with the Federal Supreme Court's ruling that legalized gay marriage nationwide. In 2014, Moore wrote letters to all 50 state governors calling on them to convene a constitutional convention to ban gay marriage.

    CNN has also reported that Moore repeatedly appeared on a radio show hosted by a pastor who preaches the death penalty for homosexuality.

    Later in the interview, when Press asked why the government should ban what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes, Moore compared gay sex to bestiality.

    "Just because it's done behind closed doors, it can still be prohibited by state law. Do you know that bestiality, the relationship between man and beast is prohibited in every state?" Moore asked.

    "Did I ask you about having sex with a cow?" Press responded.

    "No you didn't," Moore said.

    "Or a horse, or a dog?" Press asked.

    "It's the same thing," Moore said.

    "No it's not. You mean homosexuality is same thing as bestiality?" Press asked.

    "It is a moral precept upon which this country was founded," Moore said.
    This guy is trouble for the GOP. I suppose we can look at the outcome of the election as a sort of win-win. If Moore wins he'll be a terrible and very public blight on the GOP. If he loses, good for the Democrats.

  5. #5
    Lost in the Fog rugcat's Avatar
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    This guy is trouble for the GOP. I suppose we can look at the outcome of the election as a sort of win-win. If Moore wins he'll be a terrible and very public blight on the GOP. If he loses, good for the Democrats.
    I wonder. The voters of Alabama know all this, yet they apparently approve of him.

    It's sort of like Trump – time after time we've thought surely his latest insanity will result in the Republicans waking up and disowning him. But it's not happening. I don't think Moore will be any problem for the Republicans whatsoever – his election will delight the Trump base, and the rest of the party will just shrug and think that at least he's better than a Democrat.

    Anyone who believes the Republicans are going to have a come-to-Jesus moment are kidding themselves. The only possible way to wrest control of government from their hands is for those on the left to band together actually come out and vote. And that's not a sure thing at all.
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  6. #6
    Just Another Lazy Perfectionist Brightdreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugcat View Post
    Anyone who believes the Republicans are going to have a come-to-Jesus moment are kidding themselves. The only possible way to wrest control of government from their hands is for those on the left to band together actually come out and vote. And that's not a sure thing at all.
    +1 (unless we redefine the "Come-to-Jesus" moment according to the alt-right vision of Jesus... you know, that guy who befriended the rich dudes in the temples and helped them keep out the riffraff, who told the sick and poor to buzz off 'cause they must be bad or bad things wouldn't have happened to them, who hit on underage girls in the Holy Land.)

    We know the red cap minority will vote, and vote in force. We don't know that the blue voters or any remaining "grey" voters (undecided or disillusioned) will do the same - and the right's darned good at both keeping the other side fighting themselves and simply overwhelming the masses into giving up. If you ask one thousand people to choose a leader, and ten speak out in unison while the rest mumble, infight, or stay silent, the ten carry the day. And with every victory, the right realizes it can get away with more, and worse...

    The reason I'm a pessimist is that I want to be proven wrong... still waiting...
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  7. #7
    AW's resident Velociraptor ShaunHorton's Avatar
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    I think the GOP is backing Moore again because they expect he'll vote along party lines when their tax bill returns from the House. They made a lot of improbable promises to get the votes and a lot of their forcing it through the first time was based on people not knowing what was in it, which is sad when they're doing that to their own party. I don't think they'll get a second chance, and they probably know they'll need Moore's vote if they have any chance of pushing a final bill through.

    I really want to believe the people will see through this man's bluster, bullying, and lies and not vote for him. But I have no faith in anyone that would still vote Republican after Trump's year. And like Rugcat said, there's really no line anymore that's too far gone for most of them. I doubt even a confessed pedophile would be looked at as below a democrat in many of their eyes at this point.
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  8. #8
    Cautious Daredevil BoF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaeZe View Post
    If the Republicans think they are getting a simple Senate vote on their team from Moore, they may be in for a very rude awakening. Moore is going to be a high profile thorn as he's very outspoken, and not in a good a way, about any number of issues.

    Alabama's Roy Moore would be the most extreme senator — with huge consequences for Congress
    His beliefs include:
    911 was God punishing the US for immoral behavior.
    Sharia law is a threat and already being implemented in some US cities.
    Muslims should be banned from Congress.
    McConnell needs to go.
    The Ten Commandments should be law. (Of course that one on not bearing false witness will not apply to him.)
    GOP excuses Roy Moore’s attacks on Sandy Hook victims: “He’s going to be for tax reform”
    E
    Like 911:
    H
    CNN: Senate candidate Roy Moore in 2005: 'Homosexual conduct should be illegal'

    This guy is trouble for the GOP. I suppose we can look at the outcome of the election as a sort of win-win. If Moore wins he'll be a terrible and very public blight on the GOP. If he loses, good for the Democrats.
    For insight into the historical roots of Roy Moore, Franklin Graham, Jerry Fallwell Jr. and other current players I recommend Richard Hofstadter's Anti-Intellectualism in American Life.

    https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellec...ard+hofdtadter
    Last edited by BoF; 12-06-2017 at 07:27 PM.
    Congressional Republicans are a semi-"courageous" lot. They have no fear of voters, but shake in their boots at the very thought of the NRA or Grover Norquist.

  9. #9
    practical experience, FTW TCnKC's Avatar
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    Roy Moore may make the Republican senators uncomfortable but in the end he will vote for the majority of what they put forth. Why? Because most of the Republican senators are against civil rights(for LGTB, minority etc) and they've proven this time and time again. Most of them are for 'freedom of religion' FOR CHRISTIAN BELIEFS ONLY and they've proven it time and time again. Moore is just like most of them, only more outspoken with no filter.

    Will he hurt them long term if elected? I'd like to say yes but I have serious doubts the ramifications would be anything other than miniscule if any.
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  10. #10
    Travelling around the sun cbenoi1's Avatar
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    A child molester against a pro-choice liberal. Tough choice. I'm curious as to how many women who lean on the GOP side will go vote.

    -cb

  11. #11
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    GOP Women voters are pretty reliable. They certainly came out in force for Donnie

  12. #12
    down the rabbit hole of research... CWatts's Avatar
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    I can't even.... I mean, at this point I'm not shocked that someone like Roy Moore thinks this but he actually said it out loud, at a campaign event. Plus it was months ago and we're just hearing about this now?!
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/08/politi...ery/index.html

    In response to a question from one of the only African Americans in the audience — who asked when Moore thought America was last "great" -- Moore acknowledged the nation's history of racial divisions, but said: "I think it was great at the time when families were united — even though we had slavery — they cared for one another.... Our families were strong, our country had a direction."
    Last edited by CWatts; 12-08-2017 at 09:48 PM.

  13. #13
    Delerium ex Ennui Xelebes's Avatar
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    Don't expect the Republicans to do much if Moore gets elected. They don't seem to want to act if they find the little Trump supporter they voted in a Broward County office lied to them about their very violent past with women. With hammers. Because money.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...205-story.html

  14. #14
    down the rabbit hole of research... CWatts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
    Don't expect the Republicans to do much if Moore gets elected. They don't seem to want to act if they find the little Trump supporter they voted in a Broward County office lied to them about their very violent past with women. With hammers. Because money.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...205-story.html
    They're not even pretending to be Lawful Evil anymore....

  15. #15
    Lost in the Fog rugcat's Avatar
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    Another reason I expect Roy Moore to win.
    The Alabama Senate Race May Have Already Been Decided
    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/1....facebook.com/
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  16. #16
    Heckuva good sport frimble3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWatts View Post
    I can't even.... I mean, at this point I'm not shocked that someone like Roy Moore thinks this but he actually said it out loud, at a campaign event. Plus it was months ago and we're just hearing about this now?!
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/08/politi...ery/index.html
    Sorry for the derail, but
    Our families were strong, our country had a direction
    ? Westward, right over the Native Americans? So much to consider, here.

  17. #17
    Heckuva good sport frimble3's Avatar
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    Back on topic: don't count any chickens, either way, until the vote is counted. The reason there's a secret ballot is so that people can do what they please in that little voting booth. They can say anything in public or to their friends and family, just to keep the peace, or their image up, and then do a total last minute reversal when the moment comes. And then lie to the 'pollsters' after they exit.

  18. #18
    Lost in the Fog rugcat's Avatar
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    Roy Moore's wife, Kayla, explains that despite what some people might think, the Moores are not anti-semitic at all.

    You really have to watch the clip to get the full flavor. And no, it's not an SNL spoof.
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  19. #19
    Techno-Cathar Perfect Diana Hignutt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugcat View Post
    Roy Moore's wife, Kayla, explains that despite what some people might think, the Moores are not anti-semitic at all.

    You really have to watch the clip to get the full flavor. And no, it's not an SNL spoof.
    Can't watch the clip, but I think I saw it yesterday. Did she actually say, "One of our lawyers is Jewish"?
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  20. #20
    Leaving on the 2:19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana Hignutt View Post
    Can't watch the clip, but I think I saw it yesterday. Did she actually say, "One of our lawyers is Jewish"?
    No, she said "One of our lawyers is a Jew." Also, they have Jewish friends and rabbis and they fellowship with them.

  21. #21
    blue eyed floozy shakeysix's Avatar
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    I like the remark that one of the Moore defenders made on CNN "forty years ago most alabama families would be pleased to have a daughter dating a 30 ish lawyer" --Reminds me of that country song "Here's your one chance Fancy, don't let us down!" Only Fancy was 18, not 14, when Momma pimped her out. --s6

  22. #22
    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    For some context, Ms Moore is trying to defend beliefs she, her husband, and many of his followers hold such as this:

    Moore Suggests Jewish Philanthropist George Soros Is Going To Hell
    “No matter how much money he’s got, he’s still going to the same place that people who don’t recognize God and morality and accept His salvation are going. And that’s not a good place,” Moore said on conservative Christian radio host Bryan Fischer’s show.
    Ironically Moore also said this:
    “His agenda is sexual in nature, his agenda is liberal, and not what Americans need. It’s not our American culture,” he said. “Soros comes from another world that I don’t identify with. I wish I could face him directly, and I’d tell him the same thing.”...

    ... Moore in November blamed “the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender who want to change our culture” for the flood of sexual misconduct allegations that numerous women have raised against him.
    Last edited by MaeZe; 12-13-2017 at 12:08 AM.

  23. #23
    Three of a perfect pair. AW Moderator amergina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineA View Post
    GOP White Women voters are pretty reliable. They certainly came out in force for Donnie
    Fixed that. 53% of white women voted for 45.
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  24. #24
    Three of a perfect pair. AW Moderator amergina's Avatar
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    If Moore wins, you *know* black people will be blamed for not coming out to vote, rather than white people for voting for a pedo and for disenfranchising black people so that they can't vote.
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  25. #25
    practical experience, FTW
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    Mepredicts that Jones will be perceived as leading in the early results, which will come largely from urban areas, and then Moore will pick up the win on the strength of the rural vote, which will be reported later.

    caw
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