Has interest in YA died down? Are there no huge titles anymore?

ManInBlack

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
633
Reaction score
30
Location
Connecticut
Website
williamsilvia.net
I'm curious to know what the "adult Harry Potter" and "adult Hunger Games" series are.

Seanan McGuire's October Daye novels featuring a magical world barely hidden beyond the surface of the mortal world, a variety of threats that affect only the magical or the entire world, magic passed through the bloodline, a reckless "chosen one," and their friends.

Pierce Brown's Red Rising novels start with a competition between the perpetual lower class to get enough food to feed their families. Admittedly, I'm pretty sure they diverge very quickly (Hunger Games is still in my to-read pile), but I thought them similar enough to acknowledge.
 

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
29,138
Reaction score
8,563
Location
Toronto
Website
ktcraig.com
I was thinking there have been so many incredible blockbuster YA novels this year...more so than the last couple. I know I've read more this year than I have in the last two prior years combined. And they've all been big and fantastic. The Hate U Give, They Both Die at the End, The Girl With the Red Balloon, The Upside of Unrequited...on and on. I was actually thinking 17 was a bit of an upswing in YA popularity.
 

SciSarahTops

late cretaceous
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 6, 2016
Messages
552
Reaction score
158
Location
Reading about writing... less of the actual writin
Or, perhaps, a better example is Marie Lu's newest endeavor, Warcross. The MC is Asian, female and has rainbow hair. But no one is pitching/selling the story as a diverse book. It's about so much more than the MC's nationality, gender etc. It's a plot-driven book with a gripping concept.

This is exactly what I, personally, would like more of.

This whole thread has been great for recs. Thanks guys.
 

Laer Carroll

Aerospace engineer turned writer
Super Member
Registered
Temp Ban
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
267
Location
Los Angeles
Website
LaerCarroll.com
There will be another huge YA series soon...

I'm with Will on this. I've been a YA fan for going on 20 years. And every time someone says the field is such-and-such a way, in a year or two it changes completely.

We're like ants. We think the last tide will never return. But it always does.
 

bmr1591

Registered
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
44
Reaction score
3
Location
Mississippi
So I'd like your thoughts on this:

Do you think that agents desire for more diverse books is causing the decline? Hear me out, I'm not saying authors shouldn't strive for diversity (not for the sake of diversity but because that's real life). What I'm saying is that, if you look at MSWL, it seems like 80% of agents are looking for OwnVoices or LGBTQ main characters. While I understand their desire, I can't help but believe that the market isn't as interested in these stories as the agents are. Perhaps we aren't seeing 'the next big thing' because people are too busy trying to appeal to agent's MSWL than the market.
 

hester

New year, new avatar.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
1,572
Reaction score
284
Location
On the edge.
So I'd like your thoughts on this:

Do you think that agents desire for more diverse books is causing the decline? Hear me out, I'm not saying authors shouldn't strive for diversity (not for the sake of diversity but because that's real life). What I'm saying is that, if you look at MSWL, it seems like 80% of agents are looking for OwnVoices or LGBTQ main characters. While I understand their desire, I can't help but believe that the market isn't as interested in these stories as the agents are. Perhaps we aren't seeing 'the next big thing' because people are too busy trying to appeal to agent's MSWL than the market.

I'm a little confused by what you mean when you say "decline." Yes, there are fewer "big name" series such as Hunger Games, etc., but they're definitely still out there.

Insofar as manuscript wish lists are concerned, they mirror the market (IMO). The New York Times bestseller list demonstrates that OwnVoices books have a huge, and growing, audience. THE HATE U GIVE has been at the top of the list (or very close to it) since it's release, and there have been a number of similar titles that are doing extremely well.

So, my short answer to your question is that the desire among agents and publishers for diverse and ownvoices titles is not causing any sort of decline in the search for "the next big thing." I think it's the opposite :).
 
Last edited:

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
29,138
Reaction score
8,563
Location
Toronto
Website
ktcraig.com
So I'd like your thoughts on this:

Do you think that agents desire for more diverse books is causing the decline? Hear me out, I'm not saying authors shouldn't strive for diversity (not for the sake of diversity but because that's real life). What I'm saying is that, if you look at MSWL, it seems like 80% of agents are looking for OwnVoices or LGBTQ main characters. While I understand their desire, I can't help but believe that the market isn't as interested in these stories as the agents are. Perhaps we aren't seeing 'the next big thing' because people are too busy trying to appeal to agent's MSWL than the market.

I heard you out. That is ALL
 

bmr1591

Registered
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
44
Reaction score
3
Location
Mississippi
I'm a little confused by what you mean when you say "decline." Yes, there are fewer "big name" series such as Hunger Games, etc., but they're definitely still out there.

Insofar as manuscript wish lists are concerned, they mirror the market (IMO). The New York Times bestseller list demonstrates that OwnVoices books have a huge, and growing, audience. THE HATE U GIVE has been at the top of the list (or very close to it) since it's release, and there have been a number of similar titles that are doing extremely well.

So, my short answer to your question is that the desire among agents and publishers for diverse and ownvoices titles is not causing any sort of decline in the search for "the next big thing." I think it's the opposite :).


While YA is obviously still huge, it's not where it was, say five years ago. There has been a decline. I'm offering up the theory that it could be because of a pushed narrative.

- - - Updated - - -

I heard you out. That is ALL

A genuine question responded to in passive aggression. What a friendly community.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
*wading in carefully here*

Ownvoices has diversified the genre wonderfully, not just in the scope of characters being represented, but in the types of stories being told. YA is better, funnier, weirder, and more eclectic and less cookie-cutter than ever, and I can think of only one reason why. And the push into the mainstream market continues unabated.
 

spikeman4444

The snozberrys taste lke snozberrys
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
907
Reaction score
77
Location
anytown, USA
So I'd like your thoughts on this:

Do you think that agents desire for more diverse books is causing the decline? Hear me out, I'm not saying authors shouldn't strive for diversity (not for the sake of diversity but because that's real life). What I'm saying is that, if you look at MSWL, it seems like 80% of agents are looking for OwnVoices or LGBTQ main characters. While I understand their desire, I can't help but believe that the market isn't as interested in these stories as the agents are. Perhaps we aren't seeing 'the next big thing' because people are too busy trying to appeal to agent's MSWL than the market.

Well...if own voice stories didn't sell, then agents would not be asking for them. Because they need to sell books to stay in business...

I think the simplest answer is that the market is flooded with YA titles so it's very very difficult for any one book to gain enough traction to become a BIG title. Supply and demand. I love YA and read only YA and I still can't keep up with my list of books I want to read because they keep releasing more before I have a chance to finish them.
 

Putputt

permanently suctioned to Buz's leg
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
5,448
Reaction score
2,980
While YA is obviously still huge, it's not where it was, say five years ago. There has been a decline. I'm offering up the theory that it could be because of a pushed narrative.

Hester gave you a great example of why your theory is wrong. How would you explain The Hate U Give's success (I mean, it pretty much blazed past all the other hyped YA books, like Caraval and Carve The Mark and stayed at number 1 for absolutely ages) if you think that's what's driving the sales down?
 

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,584
Reaction score
1,412
Location
The land from whence the shadows fall
Website
www.sunyidean.com
yes, blame the POCs. If only they'd stop telling their uninteresting stories that nobody cares about.

I know, not what directly you're saying, but I'm answering the concept, not the person, and that's what it kind of boils down to; that the market doesn't care because we only want straight white people stories (and that IS the logical conclusion to your question).
 

bmr1591

Registered
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
44
Reaction score
3
Location
Mississippi
If that's what you got from it, I apologize. That's not what I was trying to portray. What I'm trying to say is that, while there's definitely a market for LGBTQ books for instance (since that seems to be at the top of every MSWL), it's not as large as agents predict. So nothing takes off into the mainstream as gigantic as a success as some of the books mentioned previously because they never were going to appeal to a broad audience, especially a broad audience of children who's parents still buy them books. Maybe I'm naive, but I know very few high schoolers who want to be seen reading about a gay couple at school, and I work with them on the daily. And I realize cultures play a big part of that, but at such a strange time in kids' lives, not many want to be labeled something they aren't, if that makes sense.

I'm not saying don't write the books. I'm not saying there isn't a place for the books. One of my favorite books in high school was Shooter by Walter Myers. It has nothing to do with if someone is black or asian or anything of the sort. My theory is that the market isn't as big for certain aspects of stories that agents seem to crave. And one book that has success isn't necessarily disproving that point.
 

hester

New year, new avatar.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
1,572
Reaction score
284
Location
On the edge.
If that's what you got from it, I apologize. That's not what I was trying to portray. What I'm trying to say is that, while there's definitely a market for LGBTQ books for instance (since that seems to be at the top of every MSWL), it's not as large as agents predict. So nothing takes off into the mainstream as gigantic as a success as some of the books mentioned previously because they never were going to appeal to a broad audience, especially a broad audience of children who's parents still buy them books. Maybe I'm naive, but I know very few high schoolers who want to be seen reading about a gay couple at school, and I work with them on the daily. And I realize cultures play a big part of that, but at such a strange time in kids' lives, not many want to be labeled something they aren't, if that makes sense.

I'm not saying don't write the books. I'm not saying there isn't a place for the books. One of my favorite books in high school was Shooter by Walter Myers. It has nothing to do with if someone is black or asian or anything of the sort. My theory is that the market isn't as big for certain aspects of stories that agents seem to crave. And one book that has success isn't necessarily disproving that point.

Here's the thing, though--I think your theory is wrong. As Putputt pointed out, there were a number of so-called "big name" series and books that were supposed to be "the next Hunger Games" or the next (insert other big name here) and which, quite frankly, didn't take off the way publishers hoped. The market is driving the push for diverse and ownvoices stories dealing with contemporary issues--it is not a "pushed narrative" which you asserted in one of your earlier posts, any more than the earlier "push" for dystopias or fantasy.
 

AW Admin

Administrator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
18,772
Reaction score
6,285
So I'd like your thoughts on this:

Do you think that agents desire for more diverse books is causing the decline?

I'm not convinced that there is a decline. And agents are requesting diverse books because that's what readers want.

Readers drive the market. Agents just notice what people are reading and liking and wanting moar.
 

AW Admin

Administrator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
18,772
Reaction score
6,285
Maybe I'm naive, but I know very few high schoolers who want to be seen reading about a gay couple at school, and I work with them on the daily. And I realize cultures play a big part of that, but at such a strange time in kids' lives, not many want to be labeled something they aren't, if that makes sense.

That's not what I'm seeing in terms of the library and YA circulation.

I'm not sure teens bring the books they're reading out of personal interest to school. There's also data that suggests teens who read ebooks (whether on kindles, smart phones or tablets) are increasing. The libraries I use and work with are expanding budges for YA ebooks; I don't see the age of the patrons checking them out, but I am seeing clear increases in YA ebook circulation. It's up every year since c. 2012 (I don't have access that far back, but that's what my colleagues tell me).

Nor are teens as much of the YA market as you might think.

YA generally features primary characters c. 12–18. Half or more of those books are purchased and or read by adults.

Look at the numbers.
 

Putputt

permanently suctioned to Buz's leg
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
5,448
Reaction score
2,980
If that's what you got from it, I apologize. That's not what I was trying to portray. What I'm trying to say is that, while there's definitely a market for LGBTQ books for instance (since that seems to be at the top of every MSWL), it's not as large as agents predict. So nothing takes off into the mainstream as gigantic as a success as some of the books mentioned previously because they never were going to appeal to a broad audience, especially a broad audience of children who's parents still buy them books. Maybe I'm naive, but I know very few high schoolers who want to be seen reading about a gay couple at school, and I work with them on the daily. And I realize cultures play a big part of that, but at such a strange time in kids' lives, not many want to be labeled something they aren't, if that makes sense.

I'm not saying don't write the books. I'm not saying there isn't a place for the books. One of my favorite books in high school was Shooter by Walter Myers. It has nothing to do with if someone is black or asian or anything of the sort. My theory is that the market isn't as big for certain aspects of stories that agents seem to crave. And one book that has success isn't necessarily disproving that point.

Here's the thing, though--I think your theory is wrong. As Putputt pointed out, there were a number of so-called "big name" series and books that were supposed to be "the next Hunger Games" or the next (insert other big name here) and which, quite frankly, didn't take off the way publishers hoped. The market is driving the push for diverse and ownvoices stories dealing with contemporary issues--it is not a "pushed narrative" which you asserted in one of your earlier posts, any more than the earlier "push" for dystopias or fantasy.

^^ This.

Bmr, I think your theory might have more credence if it isn’t for the inconvenient fact that:

1. Non-diverse books by non-diverse authors are still being published with a lot of hype.
2. Diverse books are recently getting the hype they deserve and simply outselling their competition.

So you’re ignoring the fact that THUG pretty much flattened the books slated to be “the next Hunger Games” (i.e. Caraval and Carve the Mark...and CTM was written by a big-name writer to boot!) in an effort to prove your theory. But what about the non-diverse books which just aren’t making it super huge? There’s a ton of them out there. I see PM announcements being made all the time of non-diverse stories selling at auction. They’re still being released. Diverse books are still a very small part of the market, so it’s a bit of a reach to blame the lack of “the next Hunger Games” in YA on them. When your theory requires such impressive mental gymnatiscs, maybe it’s time to consider that it might be wrong?
 

Justobuddies

Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
971
Reaction score
190
Location
Somewhere in time AND space
My two cents:

Perhaps the question should be asked what it means to be successful in YA currently? Yes, in the past huge blockbuster series have been the norm, but, I think, with an increase in the diversity of the market there's going to be a dilution of success. Which doesn't mean that readership is on the decline, it just means the YA market is mirroring the adult market more where selling 25K copies can be considered sensational. I don't think this means something can't break out that has that Harry Potter level of success, but I do think that was lightning in a bottle and shouldn't be held as a standard of success. IMO success is just selling enough copies of your books to make a career out of it.
 

Justobuddies

Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
971
Reaction score
190
Location
Somewhere in time AND space
Any of YA that becomes a movie really fall into outlier territory, IMO. My teenagers bring home all sorts of books, from the library and bookstore, that they tear through every week. Most of the titles and authors I've never heard of, sometimes the writing is absolute crap, but they eat up the stories. Which is more in line with my goals as a writer, find someone that loves my stories enough to pay to read them.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
I agree that Hp definitely should not be held as a standard of success

One of points I'm gently trying to make about Ownvoices, besides the fact that it is needed for other reasons, is that the movement seems to be shaking off the model of flooding the market with clones of last-year's tentpole YA blockbuster. I'm not going to cite examples, but we are all aware this is an irksome habit in publishing. Diverse authors/characters/experiences make for diverse genres, and I think there's been a challenge put forward for both published and emerging authors to go outside their comfort zone and look new places for stories, whether they draw from their own lives or simply check their blind spots and realize what is missing.

Humiliating full disclosure here: It took me....time...to process what's been happening in YA lately with Ownvoices and the such. Not because I'm against representation, insofar as I am capable of a clearly-articulated opinion I think it's obvious where I am on this. More, because, well, I don't know why, but there was defensiveness. But all you have to do is look at the new releases and galleys over the last two years to see how vastly the category has improved and the maturation it has undergone, and it seems very hard to think up reasons why this is a bad thing.
 

bmr1591

Registered
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
44
Reaction score
3
Location
Mississippi
Here's the thing, though--I think your theory is wrong. As Putputt pointed out, there were a number of so-called "big name" series and books that were supposed to be "the next Hunger Games" or the next (insert other big name here) and which, quite frankly, didn't take off the way publishers hoped. The market is driving the push for diverse and ownvoices stories dealing with contemporary issues--it is not a "pushed narrative" which you asserted in one of your earlier posts, any more than the earlier "push" for dystopias or fantasy.


And that's fine. I was just throwing out a theory to the thread's topic. If everyone thinks I'm wrong, then that's okay. I was just asking people's thoughts.
 

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,584
Reaction score
1,412
Location
The land from whence the shadows fall
Website
www.sunyidean.com
One of points I'm gently trying to make about Ownvoices, besides the fact that it is needed for other reasons, is that the movement seems to be shaking off the model of flooding the market with clones of last-year's tentpole YA blockbuster. I'm not going to cite examples, but we are all aware this is an irksome habit in publishing. Diverse authors/characters/experiences make for diverse genres, and I think there's been a challenge put forward for both published and emerging authors to go outside their comfort zone and look new places for stories, whether they draw from their own lives or simply check their blind spots and realize what is missing.

Humiliating full disclosure here: It took me....time...to process what's been happening in YA lately with Ownvoices and the such. Not because I'm against representation, insofar as I am capable of a clearly-articulated opinion I think it's obvious where I am on this. More, because, well, I don't know why, but there was defensiveness. But all you have to do is look at the new releases and galleys over the last two years to see how vastly the category has improved and the maturation it has undergone, and it seems very hard to think up reasons why this is a bad thing.

Hrm. Because it feels like a bit of a bandwagon, perhaps?

This has come up on other threads but one of the issues for me is that there's an element of these categories being defined by people who themselves don't fit into either the diversity or ownvoices bucket (ie, agents). A hint that perhaps people are seeking exoticism in some cases.

By and large it's a good thing. But the execution is sometimes clumsy in practice.