Do writers have to "out" themselves to agents, using #OwnVoices?

novicewriter

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
293
Reaction score
48
I read a recent article from a literary agency, about what publishers are currently looking for, and in the comments, a writer with Asperger's syndrome (who wrote a manuscript with a main character who also has the same condition) wasn't sure whether it'd be a good idea to out themselves to literary agents in their queries, using #OwnVoices. One literary agent responded that the writer should out themselves because they said it'd show the agent that they have credibility.

Do all agents want writers to out themselves in queries? It feels a little too personal and invasive to me, as I was taught that it's rude to ask others their sexual orientation, gender, etc. I thought the writing is what was most important to agents, not an author's sexual orientation or gender identity.
 

heza

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
4,328
Reaction score
829
Location
Oklahoma
It benefits you from an industry perspective to acknowledge that you are a #OwnVoices author, and I would assume most agents do want you to mention when you are. If you're uncomfortable with that, then you should just query without an acknowledgment, knowing it might be assumed that you are straight/white/male/etc unless you say otherwise.
 

atwhatcost

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Messages
102
Reaction score
7
Location
South Philly, PA
I read a recent article from a literary agency, about what publishers are currently looking for, and in the comments, a writer with Asperger's syndrome (who wrote a manuscript with a main character who also has the same condition) wasn't sure whether it'd be a good idea to out themselves to literary agents in their queries, using #OwnVoices. One literary agent responded that the writer should out themselves because they said it'd show the agent that they have credibility.

Do all agents want writers to out themselves in queries? It feels a little too personal and invasive to me, as I was taught that it's rude to ask others their sexual orientation, gender, etc. I thought the writing is what was most important to agents, not an author's sexual orientation or gender identity.
Asperger's isn't gender or sexual orientation though.

You don't have to write #OwnVoices on your query. But I don't see what the big deal is. If you don't want to be outed, telling agents isn't being outed. It's telling what qualifications you have to tell that story. They may want you to use that in your publicity, but they're working with you, not against you, so it's fine saying No. If you don't want anyone to know, even after telling the agent, you still have the option to go with a pen name.

Ultimately, having an agent is a business arrangement, and having a business arrangement has a lot of will dos/won't dos attached to it. If the two of you agree, or accept the wills and won't, then the relationship is signed in a contract.

It does seem strange to be pleased with the writing yet ashamed of the writer, especially when the writer is you.
 

Sage

Currently titleless
Staff member
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
64,562
Reaction score
22,369
Age
43
Location
Cheering you all on!
Not all people are as comfortable with admitting that they are whatever #OwnVoices identity they identify with. It's not a big deal to some, and a big deal to others. And there's nothing wrong with that. But if you want to use "#OwnVoices" in your querying or marketing, then you have to be comfortable with outing that part of your identity. Otherwise, you're in the same boat as everyone else who doesn't put that label on there.

At the end of the day, it's going to depend on the story. #Ownvoices just sometimes gets your foot in the door a little more easily.
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
If you want to, then do it. If you don't, then don't. Simple.
 

novicewriter

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
293
Reaction score
48
I'm glad that you guys posted that it's okay. I wrote a long reply to earlier posts, explaining all of the reasons why some writers might not want to be outed, but your short responses were more succinct and saved me from that. Thanks.

I just wanted to make sure that the literary agent wasn't basically saying to the other writer that, "If you don't put #OwnVoices in your query, we'll automatically assume you're a heterosexual who's trying to write about diverse experiences that aren't you're own and that you don't know what you're writing about," because that seemed like an unfair assumption.
 
Last edited:

writera

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
380
Reaction score
142
How relevant is #OwnVoices if you've written a non-#OwnVoices or only lightly-relevant #OwnVoices manuscript? I mean, let's say you're gay and you've written a fantasy novel that has one or two gay/bi characters, but isn't otherwise a gay novel and may even feature a straight romance as well. Would it be inappropriate to mention #OwnVoices?

I'm really confused by this. I mean, I wouldn't want to risk offending anyone or be seen as trying to jump on a bandwagon. The fact is I'm gay but to most I probably seem like a typical straight guy writer when I submit and on social media. And, even though my book has some gay characters, they're really integrated into the plot in a "no big deal" kind of way - i.e. their sexuality isn't a focal point of the plot or of huge thematic significance, but at the same time it's not hidden or merely hinted at.

There's also characters struggling with anxiety and other issues as well and I'm also not sure if this would be relevant. I'm just really confused by all of this. My book does have some diverse qualities, and I don't want to underrepresent them, but at the same time, if I'm being deemed as a straight guy white writer and that's hurting my chances and pointing out some diversity could help, then I don't mind that, but I don't want to "use" that or be seen to be trying to use that to get my foot in the door.

Am I overthinking all of this? Maybe. But I think these are relevant concerns with the growing trend of diversity in books.
 
Last edited:

novicewriter

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
293
Reaction score
48
I don't feel you're overthinking this, writera.

I, too, thought of similar things to what you wrote. From what I've seen on social media, there's more of an emotional, social, and economical risk for #OwnVoices writers who out themselves (and even heterosexual writers who choose to write LGBT+ characters), where some adult readers verbally criticized them for writing books with LGBT+ characters, in a way that heterosexual writers don't have to worry about or deal with.

A few bad reviews that complain about the LGBT+ characters and school districts who decide to ban LGBT+ children's books from the curriculum because heterosexual, anti-LGBT+ parents complain doesn't help an #OwnVoices author, saleswise.
 
Last edited:

Antipode91

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Messages
309
Reaction score
56
I mean, I'm gay, and my main character is gay (however, you actually don't "know" this until the very last line, because it's not a plot point worth mentioning).

However, I don't get why being perceived as a "straight white male" matters. One of my characters is blind, and I dedicate a section to him explaining what it's like, both on a physical and philosophical level. Me being a gay male doesn't make me unable to write about it, nor being straight male being able to write a gay character.

If he sucks at doing it, then that just means his writing isn't good enough.
 

Layla Nahar

Seashell Seller
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
7,655
Reaction score
913
Location
Seashore
I actually don't understand the question. Does it mean 'if you are gay you should tell an agent you're gay'?
 

Antipode91

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Messages
309
Reaction score
56
I actually don't understand the question. Does it mean 'if you are gay you should tell an agent you're gay'?

It means, if you're gay, and have a gay-centric story, you should tell an agent you're gay.
 

writera

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
380
Reaction score
142
I actually don't understand the question. Does it mean 'if you are gay you should tell an agent you're gay'?

I think the question is probably more like, if you are LGBTQIA+ or otherwise diverse or identify as #ownvoices, AND your book has these elements, should you point them out? And does doing so help you in any way?

It means, if you're gay, and have a gay-centric story, you should tell an agent you're gay.

And how gay (or otherwise) centric must the story be to be relevant/worth pointing out?
 
Last edited:

Aggy B.

Not as sweet as you think
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,882
Reaction score
1,557
Location
Just north of the Deep South
You should do what you're comfortable with. Also, this might be something that you feel isn't as relevant to the query, but could be something you at least discuss with the agent during a telephone call (i.e. making an offer of rep) as far as general branding and marketing of you as an author. But, again, only if it's something you feel comfortable with.

FREX: Though I am comfortable talking with folks about my conservative, home schooled, hyper-religious upbringing, I don't put that into how I market myself as a writer (even in instances where I might be writing about issues related to that upbringing/background). But I know some folks who put "reformed Conservative" or whatever in bio blurbs to highlight they had a certain type of background but now hold different views. It's just a matter of what they are comfortable with or focusing on and what I am comfortable with and focusing on.
 

The Otter

Friendly Neighborhood Mustelid
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
1,461
Reaction score
441
Location
In the room next to the noisy ice machine, for all
Yeah, I'll chime in to say, do what you're comfortable with. If you feel weird about outing yourself or putting some aspect of your identity on display in an attempt to get an agent or to sell more books, then don't do it. Maybe some people will assume you're straight/white/male/neurotypical/whatever, but that's their problem. You're a writer and your job is to tell an engaging story. Everything else is secondary.

I think it's great that there's a market for #ownvoices now, but that doesn't mean it's obligatory for everyone.
 

Antipode91

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Messages
309
Reaction score
56
And how gay (or otherwise) centric must the story be to be relevant/worth pointing out?

I don't think it matters. Not a fun answer, but just what I think

In my story, the MC is gay, but you don't know it. The reader can easily get inklings about it, for how strongly he's feeling toward another male character, but it's never said. You don't even know they are until they kiss during the very last scene. I'd have no problem putting ownvoices in the query (granted, I wouldn't because I don't consider being gay a credential).

I think there's only one part that matters--if you mention the gay theme in the query or not. If you query for the novel IT, and say "ownvoice" at the end, it's going to come off confusing. So as long as it's mentioned in the letter, ownvoices can apply. Sexual orientation is such a hot button issue still, that any reference two it, I think, can qualify for the word usage.
 

The Otter

Friendly Neighborhood Mustelid
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
1,461
Reaction score
441
Location
In the room next to the noisy ice machine, for all
Asperger's isn't gender or sexual orientation though.

It is relevant to #ownvoices though. The hashtag was started by an autistic woman writing about autistic characters.

You don't have to write #OwnVoices on your query. But I don't see what the big deal is. If you don't want to be outed, telling agents isn't being outed. It's telling what qualifications you have to tell that story. They may want you to use that in your publicity, but they're working with you, not against you, so it's fine saying No. If you don't want anyone to know, even after telling the agent, you still have the option to go with a pen name.

If they use that in your publicity, then yes, you are outing yourself because that information is now being broadcast to the world. And most agents/publishers are going to want to use that information in publicity. They're not interested in knowing it just for their own curiosity; #ownvoices is a marketing tool. And yeah, you could use a pen name but it's not that hard to find an author's real identity when there's such a wealth of information on the Internet.

It does seem strange to be pleased with the writing yet ashamed of the writer, especially when the writer is you.

I may be misunderstanding this, but if the implication is "a writer who doesn't want to out themselves must be ashamed of their identity," I don't think that's true at all. Coming out is a personal, complicated and individualized experience, and even in an increasingly tolerant world, it can still carry certain risks. There are many reasons to be cautious about it.

Some people are comfortable being open about all aspects of their identity, and that's fine. Other people consider their sexuality (or ancestry, or psychiatric diagnoses, or whatever) to be a personal matter that they'd prefer not to broadcast or use as part of their "brand" as a writer. And that's fine too.
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
If you feel weird about outing yourself or putting some aspect of your identity on display in an attempt to get an agent or to sell more books, then don't do it.


#ownvoices isn't about using your identity to sell more books: it's about being able to write about something with authenticity, because you live it every day. At least, that's how I see it.
 

DarienW

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
1,497
Reaction score
242
Location
Los Angeles
If I may ask, I have an #ownvoices story involving an evolving gay teen and sexual abuse from the perspective that I think my life experience can lend validity too, and I'm proud how much I fictionalized the story and made it exciting. Does anyone have advice on how to frame that in a query? It's a bit of a spoiler, if you know what I mean.

After the explosion of people coming forward with stories of celebrities and powerful men taking advantage of them, I do think it's important to include, but again, the query alludes to that, but doesn't make that plain. This is my final quandary going forward to querying, so any advice would be deeply appreciated. I'm comfortable with both facts being known.

I simply don't know how to add that into the bio section.

A million thanks!

:Hug2:
 

Anna Iguana

reading all the things
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
925
Reaction score
219
Location
US
You might get more holistic advice in Query Letter Hell, showing people your plot summary + bio. Based on what you've said here, I might try this sentence at the bottom of your letter: "The novel addresses sexual orientation and sexual abuse from an #ownvoices perspective."
 

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,584
Reaction score
1,412
Location
The land from whence the shadows fall
Website
www.sunyidean.com
#ownvoices isn't about using your identity to sell more books: it's about being able to write about something with authenticity, because you live it every day. At least, that's how I see it.

In all honesty, that's not what it *looks* like from down here, even if the goals as such are good.

Case in point, the Korean American writer whose characters were rejected as not "Korean enough". I often feel like I'm indirectly (probably in my own idiot head, not real) being penalised for not being diversely diverse enough, because I don't directly crib from Chinese mythology, or make the sexism commentary too oblique, or whatever. I get the strong impression that ownvoices therefore doesn't apply to me, or needs a lot of justification which then sounds like a fib. There's this weird kind of reverse pressure to be full on with the heritage stamping; again, probably just perception.

and then increasingly I think, well, what's the point of this. It doesn't improve your chances of being noticed (nor should it per se), and I seriously doubt agents believe it anyway, at least in some cases. I'm not convinced it helps. Maybe it does, I dunno.
 
Last edited:

The Otter

Friendly Neighborhood Mustelid
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
1,461
Reaction score
441
Location
In the room next to the noisy ice machine, for all
#ownvoices isn't about using your identity to sell more books: it's about being able to write about something with authenticity, because you live it every day. At least, that's how I see it.

It's about both those things. From the readers' perspective, it's a way to help find the kind of authors and books they're looking for. From the agent's/publisher's perspective, it's about selling books, because that's their job.
 

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
14,537
Reaction score
24,109
Location
Massachusetts
Website
elizabethbonesteel.com
In all honesty, that's not what it *looks* like from down here, even if the goals as such are good.

I suspect there are a lot of different motivations around #ownvoices, and I'll even suggest that most agents who advocate it sincerely want to see more books with rich and varied characters who are not white/cis/hetero/neurotypical, preferably written by people who are also not white/cis/hetero/neurotypical.

The other side of it is that they're in business and they want to be able to sell the book, and agents are pretty well aware of the persistent biases in publishing. That snippet of editorial feedback circulated by the writer who was told their characters weren't Asian enough (which I think is what you're referring to) is appalling, but I doubt anyone in the food chain was hugely surprised by it.

and then increasingly I think, well, what's the point of this. It doesn't improve your chances of being noticed (nor should it per se), and I seriously doubt agents believe it anyway, at least in some cases. I'm not convinced it helps. Maybe it does, I dunno.

My gut feeling is that it might help in the case where an agent is fence-sitting over your query, or is liking your story but looking for more to differentiate it from the pack. I do believe the drive to find more diverse voices is genuine, and at the query stage, at least, I don't think (truthfully) tagging your work as #ownvoices (if you're comfortable doing so) is going to hurt you.

Past the agent level, though? That's a whole different issue.
 

LJD

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
4,226
Reaction score
525
I would say you can call it #ownvoices if you share a marginalized identity with one of the main characters in your book, but the book doesn't have to be about being gay, etc.

Of course, you don't have to if you don't feel comfortable with it.
 

LJD

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
4,226
Reaction score
525
I just wonder, is it true there's backlash to being perceived as straight white male writer?

I write romance, which is a little different as most authors are female. It is a genre that is dominated by straight white woman. Recently, there was a study done on the diversity of writers published by romance publishers, focusing on race. The results? Only 7.8% of the books were written by PoC. For 50% of publishers, LESS THAN 5% of books were written by PoC. (See this thread for more.) So although I sometimes hear white writers complain about how everyone is calling for diversity, they're at such a disadvantage, etc... I don't see this reflected in the books that are being published.

I just think that being a straight white man isn't as much of an advantage as it used to be, but that doesn't mean it's a disadvantage.


(And if people think authors of marginalized identities don't have to put up with shit anymore, they are very, very wrong. In the thread I mentioned above, I wrote: "This [study] comes only three days after I was told not to use a Chinese surname for my new pen name, and also 'If the characters just happen to be Chinese, but they’re still identifiable/relatable, that’s okay' (approx wording) which seems to imply that most of us Asians are unrelatable freaks . And this was by a well-respected editor.")
 
Last edited: