The monomyth is as directly useful to writing a story as 'an automobile is wheels, chassis, power supply, motor and gearbox' is to designing a car. It can help you make sure you didn't leave out anything vital, but it's how you implement the details that determines whether the end result is a Ford Model A, a Porsche 911, or a Tesla Roadster.Having just taken a stab at starting a fantasy novel I remembered this idea about 'The heroes journey' I wondered if anyone has found it useful, and if so, in what way?
There is a ton of debate over whether there are successful stories that step completely outside of Campbell's monomyth structure, and over how ubiquitous all these elements are across cultures.
Sometimes I feel like we're squinting pretty hard at some to make them fit. Was the story Arrival a hero's journey tale? What about Reservoir Dogs ? What about Amadeus? What about Taxi Driver?
{People think} "Mythic structure like the Joseph Campbell thing has to apply to every movie" even thought the guy that wrote the book says 25% of them it doesn't apply to at all.
Have a link? I don't recall coming across this last time I read the book.I have read that Campbell felt there was no such thing as a "heroine's" journey, {...}
The Hero's Journey has been used a gazillion times, both in modern fiction & in storytelling/myth over millennia. The Wikipedia article lists some examples. It's at least as useful to writers as any other popular story-structure formula (e.g. Save the Cat or Dramatica). There's a risk in applying it too rigidly that the result will end up looking exactly like every other story that uses the same formula. It's a pretty specific structure, so the pale copies (there are a lot!) end up repetitive and predictable. And you definitely don't want to force a story into that structure if it does not organically fit. But it's a time-tested formula for a certain type of story, and if your story is that sort of story & you're the kind of writer who likes to plan things out it can probably help you set up your storyline and character roles.
Actually, I didn't shoehorn anything. I already had the reluctant hero. He was kicked out of his home, (first threshold), kicked out of where he landed, (second threshold), had to go through three states before he gets where he needs to be, and each state had others he needed to learn about to see how the overall problem affected them too, so "three trials," and then had to confront the ones causing his people problems, before settling into his new normal. He has a mentor, because he's both reluctant and naive. It sort of cleared the way of how to get the kid from beginning to end on his epic.As I understand it, Campbell's books were all the rage a couple of decades ago or so. The success of Star Wars made it very faddish in Hollywood, and there were college classes in literature, even anthropology that incorporated his work. As with everything that gets too faddy, though, naysayers emerged, and I think it's taken more with a grain of salt these days.
To be fair to Campbell, I don't think he ever said that writers should be checking boxes as they construct their stories to toss out anything that doesn't fit a pre-determined formula. It was supposed to be a more retrospective analysis of epic tales across cultures. There's some debate over the across cultures thing, however, as some claim Campbell cherry picked from examples that fit his hypothesis.
I think various elements of the hero's journey--quests, transformation, mastering more than one world, wise mentors who bite it, avoiding temptation, getting the princess at the end--frequently emerge in works of heroic or epic fantasy. This doesn't mean that every (or most) box/boxes will be checked in every book, or that a failure to conform to this model will result in a poor story structure. Actually, I think focusing too much on this as a template can result in a stale, predictable story, or it can amount to trying to force a story or character into something that doesn't fit.
There is a ton of debate over whether there are successful stories that step completely outside of Campbell's monomyth structure, and over how ubiquitous all these elements are across cultures. Sometimes I feel like we're squinting pretty hard at some to make them fit. Was the story Arrival a hero's journey tale? What about Reservoir Dogs? What about Amadeus? What about Taxi Driver? What about Death of a Salesman? What about romance novels? What about mysteries? What about stories with an antihero protagonist? What about stories that are about everyday, ordinary things or about people who aren't remotely heroic, or even antiheroic?
And what about books and movies with female protagonists? I have read that Campbell felt there was no such thing as a "heroine's" journey, because in storytelling, women are "always" unchanging plot devices of some kind (except when they aren't, but he seemed to ignore myths with female protagonists). Today, we tend to call that kind of thinking sexist, and there's more attention to the under representation of women and girls in movies and books. Some say there's a parallel story structure for female heroes (the heroine's journey), which encompasses a quest for wholeness that women experience in patriarchal societies. But forcing every story with a female protagonist into that shell would be just as problematic.
My thought about the Monomyth is if it's taken too strictly it's stifling, and anyway, there are tons of exceptions. If it's taken very broadly (and one is allowed to omit elements at will), it's so vague that almost anything can be shoehorned to fit. If the latter is true, how useful is it?
As I understand it, Campbell's books were all the rage a couple of decades ago or so. The success of Star Wars made it very faddish in Hollywood, and there were college classes in literature, even anthropology that incorporated his work. As with everything that gets too faddy, though, naysayers emerged, and I think it's taken more with a grain of salt these days.
That's called, 'being a writer.'As a Iconoclast I find it important to really know the rules well so you can break them in interesting and new ways.
For me the main takeaway from the Hero's Journey as Campbell described it is that it recaps one old idea of a young man's path to becoming a grownup. He goes out, has adventures, and returns home with riches (maybe only wisdom) to take his place as a adult. The Odyssey and The Lion King are examples.
Until recently a Heroine's Journey looked very different. She stayed home, not allowed to go out and risk herself. When she did go out it was under guard and to a different sheltered place, as a wife and eventual mother.
Nowadays in the developed world a woman can go out by herself to have her own adventures, gain riches, and establish herself as an adult. Though one of the "adventures" she faces, more than men, is harassment and rape, as has become abundantly clear recently.
Women have always done 'heroic' things. There have always been women risking their lives ...
Campbell was a popularizer, but is not really respected by Medievalists, or Folklorists. He takes huge liberties with the assertions he makes about particular stories, and is very often wrong at the level of plot and in terms of historical fact. He is the twentieth century equivalent to Frazer's Golden Bough. Fun to read, but not reliable.
He is most noticeably hampered because he relies on nineteenth century bowdlerized translations, rather than looking at the actual texts he uses.
"not really respected by Medievalists, or Folklorists"
- how did you come to this conclusion?
The Hero's Journey and Heroine's Journey as I described them are oft-used models of reality. They are true but only of some people's lives.
...Yeah, I think my issue is that, as described, the Hero's Journey is more of a human thing than a guy thing. Hero (to me, anyway) isn't a gendered term, and it's irritating to learn that Campbell saw it that way.
I don't think I've ever known a single woman, no matter what her choices in life, who cheerfully aspired to be solely a motivator/reward for a man. Every woman I've known, from the full-time at-home parent to the soldier to the senior partner at a lawfirm, has had her own journey and her own story arc. That we still discuss women with adventurous lives as some aberration bothers me more and more the older I get.