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Thread: DNC purges progressives

  1. #1
    ever seeking GeorgeK's Avatar
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    DNC purges progressives

    I'm surprised there isn't a posting of this (unless I just missed it) If you google the title you'll find lots of other articles from a week ago. This one happened to be on the top of my search
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017...z-dnc-shake-up

    On a related note, Bernie is leaving the DNC
    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...endent-in-2018

    I think this is Perez' and the DNC aristocracy's way of supporting Trump. They are going to do the same thing again, alienate progressive and young voters, tell them that they don't matter and then try to bully them into voting for whomever they designate as their candidate. It really looks like they are trying to lose.

  2. #2
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    Hold on -- Bernie was barely in the DNC for a hot second, and it wasn't like he was a team fucking player while he was there.

    Are you equating progressive and young voters with Bernie? There were so many issues with Bernie I don't know where to begin, but 'bully whomever they designate?'

    Hillary won the primaries by what, 17 million votes? That's not bullying. Look at 2008.

  3. #3
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    Sanders was DINO because it was convenient for him to get on the ticket.
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    Joker Groupie Celia Cyanide's Avatar
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    Who says Bernie supporters are all progressives?
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  5. #5
    I meant to do that. Lyv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
    Hold on -- Bernie was barely in the DNC for a hot second, and it wasn't like he was a team fucking player while he was there.
    True.

    Now, if they get Nomiki Konst and Nina Turner off the "unity reform commission," I might start giving money to the DNC again.

    Speaking of unity, though, we did have some local Bernie and Hillary people working together for the common good:

    Sanders' chilly Cambridge reception

    In a letter sent to the Vermont senator and former presidential candidate on Sunday, a group of Sanders and Clinton-backing Cambridge Democrats including state Rep. Marjorie Decker criticized his visit today — and the thinking behind the endorsements at all. Sanders plans to endorse a slate of 18 candidates for local offices like Cambridge city council, Somerville town council, and Somerville school board. The group writes that his visit is unnecessary and question the reasoning behind the candidates he plans to endorse today. “All of us are concerned that the candidates were chosen without regard to whether they differ on the economic and social justice principles that are your platform,” they write.
    I read their letter, and it's a good one.

    Bernie, imo, has done more harm than good to the party I've belonged to for almost 40 years. Not sad to see him go (and if I have the timing right, it's after the DNC voted against asking him to officially join the party).

  6. #6
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    I don't belong to the party, but the damage he did was unbelievable, and there were a lot of his followers I spoke to who were ... not exactly informed, to put it mildly, who utterly misrepresented Hillary's policies, or thought she had no position or the opposition position from what was clearly stated, printed, released, detailed policy, etc.

    He also has espoused things utterly antithetical to BASIC DNC policy, and one would think ANY progressive stance, like when he's supported anti-choice candidates.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
    like when he's supported anti-choice candidates.
    I've seen his supporters online who characterize Dem's pro-choice litmus test as 'a stupid hill to die on'. This infuriates me, especially when coupled with some of the intensity over only supporting single payer (which I am in favor of).

  8. #8
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kjbartolotta View Post
    I've seen his supporters online who characterize Dem's pro-choice litmus test as 'a stupid hill to die on'.
    "Women don't need no bodily autonomy!" The great cross-party unifier.
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  9. #9
    Beastly Fido Roxxsmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineA View Post
    "Women don't need no bodily autonomy!" The great cross-party unifier.
    Well, whenever someone says that one of the problems with the Dems is that their tent is too large, so they have all these different groups who want politicians to focus on their rights to the exclusion of other groups, I ask, "Okay, maybe, but which group do you think should be thrown under the bus then?"

    More and more it seems to be women. Probably a smart decision. They're only slightly more than half the population, after all. I assume it's because they take women (and their greater likelihood of being progressive than men are) for granted? It's getting pretty old, but as much as I hate getting older, I'm selfishly glad I don't have to worry about getting pregnant anymore. I continue to support choice for the younger generations of women who need it. If the right of women to control their own bodies is a stupid litmus test to the supposedly progressive branch of the party, then I can't say I have much use for them.
    Last edited by Roxxsmom; 10-26-2017 at 04:58 AM.
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  10. #10
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxxsmom View Post
    They're only slightly more than half the population, after all.
    Yeah, but we're more reliable voters. As the mom of male Bernie supporters (2) and knowing their male Bernie-supporting friends, a lot of them sat out. So, yanno, if you want to actually win elections, better cater to the 51% and their allies.

    Any dude who stands up and says women's repro health choices are a "hill we shouldn't die on" needs to strap on a uterus, carry a baby to term, experience all the turmoil (bodily and external, ie: job disruption, strangers touching your belly, co-workers complaining that you're barfing in the bathroom, all when you're 22 and without financial means beyond your minimum wage cashier job at McDonalds) that goes with it, and then come back to me and say that. Until then, fuck them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roxxsmom View Post
    If the right of women to control their own bodies is a stupid litmus test to the supposedly progressive branch of the party, then I can't say I have much use for them.
    Or, yeah. This.
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  11. #11
    Beastly Fido Roxxsmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineA View Post
    Yeah, but we're more reliable voters. As the mom of male Bernie supporters (2) and knowing their male Bernie-supporting friends, a lot of them sat out. So, yanno, if you want to actually win elections, better cater to the 51% and their allies.
    I was being sarcastic about the only slightly more than half the population thing.

    I suspect that the overall progressive leanings of women is taken for granted, though. Who else are women who are even halfway liberal going to vote for? The party that wants to push women's rights back to the beginning of the last century?

    Any dude who stands up and says women's repro health choices are a "hill we shouldn't die on" needs to strap on a uterus, carry a baby to term, experience all the turmoil (bodily and external, ie: job disruption, strangers touching your belly, co-workers complaining that you're barfing in the bathroom, all when you're 22 and without financial means beyond your minimum wage cashier job at McDonalds) that goes with it, and then come back to me and say that. Until then, fuck them.
    Totally agree. Heck, I'd even settle for them experiencing the gnawing terror of a late period when being pregnant isn't a viable option.
    Last edited by Roxxsmom; 10-26-2017 at 06:33 AM.
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  12. #12
    Travelling around the sun cbenoi1's Avatar
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    This looks like a quality over quantity member recruiting policy. There is slight problem with this approach. Quantity wins elections, and those who get elected make the laws.

    -cb

  13. #13
    Beastly Fido Roxxsmom's Avatar
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    Whatever the reason, though, the GOP is cannibalizing itself, imploding, self destructing, undergoing apoptosis etc. But the Democrats are utterly failing to capitalize on this or even to gain any advantage as a consequence.
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  14. #14
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbenoi1 View Post
    This looks like a quality over quantity member recruiting policy. There is slight problem with this approach. Quantity wins elections, and those who get elected make the laws.

    -cb
    The person who got THREE MILLION MORE votes than anyone else is not currently occupying the White House so.... not so much down here, nope.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
    The person who got THREE MILLION MORE votes than anyone else is not currently occupying the White House so.... not so much down here, nope.
    Yes! And people keep ignoring that little data point.

  16. #16
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxxsmom View Post
    Whatever the reason, though, the GOP is cannibalizing itself, imploding, self destructing, undergoing apoptosis etc. But the Democrats are utterly failing to capitalize on this or even to gain any advantage as a consequence.
    The Democrat's statement after the Flake speech yesterday was dismaying in the extreme. Grab the centrists, Dems. We are the ones with the numbers. (I hope people without Twitter can still see that. I couldn't find it in it's entirety in any other reliable locations.)
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  17. #17
    Travelling around the sun cbenoi1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
    The person who got THREE MILLION MORE votes than anyone else is not currently occupying the White House so.... not so much down here, nope.
    a) How often that happened in US history?
    b) Trump doesn't make the laws. He eradicates Obama's EOs.
    c) The US election process is ... how should I say this politely ... in need of a good revamp.

    -cb

  18. #18
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    I think the top issue of our age -- globally -- is the struggle between the Haves and the Have Nots (or the struggle the Haves wage against the Have Nots). Trump's people tapped into this in a bizarre, absurd way. The Dems, who were traditionally the party of the working class, couldn't see it, or pretended not to. Since progressives are often the only ones willing to actually talk about this without giving a damn about being labeled socialists or whatever, it's a bad sign if they're being pushed out or purged.

    Women tend to vote more conservatively as they get older and/or after they get married. I shudder to think how many women voted for Trump, and for what reasons. Some of them are in my family, some of them are intelligent human beings. But when they get on this or that Trumpian topic, they sound brainwashed. It's frightening.

  19. #19
    Joker Groupie Celia Cyanide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roxxsmom View Post
    Well, whenever someone says that one of the problems with the Dems is that their tent is too large, so they have all these different groups who want politicians to focus on their rights to the exclusion of other groups, I ask, "Okay, maybe, but which group do you think should be thrown under the bus then?"

    More and more it seems to be women. Probably a smart decision. They're only slightly more than half the population, after all. I assume it's because they take women (and their greater likelihood of being progressive than men are) for granted? It's getting pretty old, but as much as I hate getting older, I'm selfishly glad I don't have to worry about getting pregnant anymore. I continue to support choice for the younger generations of women who need it. If the right of women to control their own bodies is a stupid litmus test to the supposedly progressive branch of the party, then I can't say I have much use for them.
    Yeah, this is pretty much what I have been saying the whole time. I like a lot about Bernie, but if his supporters don't care about social issues, how are they progressive? If they are progressive, why don't they support any other progressive candidates? Because they're not.
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  20. #20
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbenoi1 View Post
    a) How often that happened in US history?
    b) Trump doesn't make the laws. He eradicates Obama's EOs.
    c) The US election process is ... how should I say this politely ... in need of a good revamp.

    -cb
    Happened in 2000 too.

    I didn't say anything about making laws.

    Yeah, no kidding,

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celia Cyanide View Post
    Yeah, this is pretty much what I have been saying the whole time. I like a lot about Bernie, but if his supporters don't care about social issues, how are they progressive? If they are progressive, why don't they support any other progressive candidates? Because they're not.
    And if they're progressives, why do they want to be Dems? Could it be because of the party machine, which takes massive cash to operate? I agree with a lot (not all) of progressive stances, but if you're going to latch on to the Democratic party and then work to undermine its candidates, go form your own damn party. If it really truly is all about the grass roots, you should have no problem raising money for elections.

    And if you've already shown by your behavior in the last election you can't be trusted to support the party, then don't be surprised when the party says, sorry, you're not trustworthy.

    I'm all for pushing any party toward more enlightened stances, but stomping a foot, demanding your way, then going out of your way to denounce the party candidate in favor of [BLANK], or not voting at all because you didn't get every single thing you wanted...screw that. Take your noisemakers and go have your own party. Have at it.
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  22. #22
    I meant to do that. Lyv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlantic12 View Post
    I think the top issue of our age -- globally -- is the struggle between the Haves and the Have Nots (or the struggle the Haves wage against the Have Nots). Trump's people tapped into this in a bizarre, absurd way. The Dems, who were traditionally the party of the working class, couldn't see it, or pretended not to. Since progressives are often the only ones willing to actually talk about this without giving a damn about being labeled socialists or whatever, it's a bad sign if they're being pushed out or purged.
    Not to put you on the spot, but what would your definition of "progressive" be? I ask that a lot and get different answers. I have been a proud Democrat my entire adult life and worked for social justice and for progress as a liberal, so I was surprised to find many Bernie-supporter progressives basically considered me to a conservative because I supported Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders for president. Nothing else mattered, only which candidate I supported.

    Women tend to vote more conservatively as they get older and/or after they get married. I shudder to think how many women voted for Trump, and for what reasons. Some of them are in my family, some of them are intelligent human beings. But when they get on this or that Trumpian topic, they sound brainwashed. It's frightening.
    I'd like to see your source for that. Did they further break down demographics by race. Did they also look at men? Do you remember?

  23. #23
    ever seeking GeorgeK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celia Cyanide View Post
    Yeah, this is pretty much what I have been saying the whole time. I like a lot about Bernie, but if his supporters don't care about social issues, how are they progressive? If they are progressive, why don't they support any other progressive candidates? Because they're not.
    I think you've been listening to trolls telling deliberate lies rather than actual Bernie supporters. His top three issues are Healthcare (ranging from access to affordability including cost of medications), Environment (pollution to renewable energy) and Education (making it accessible and affordable for those who can actually do it.) Do you not consider those social issues?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineA View Post
    And if they're progressives, why do they want to be Dems? Could it be because of the party machine, which takes massive cash to operate? I agree with a lot (not all) of progressive stances, but if you're going to latch on to the Democratic party and then work to undermine its candidates, go form your own damn party. If it really truly is all about the grass roots, you should have no problem raising money for elections.
    This was my entire problem with the 'Bernie got robbed' mentality. He was always a DINO at best, really an independent. Whether or not I support the DNC (and really, I think they need a massive infusion of new blood), declaring yourself to be a Dem and demanding the party machinery support you when you don't support the party is bound to backfire.
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  25. #25
    Pie aren't squared, pie are round! Introversion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineA View Post
    The Democrat's statement after the Flake speech yesterday was dismaying in the extreme. Grab the centrists, Dems. We are the ones with the numbers. (I hope people without Twitter can still see that. I couldn't find it in it's entirety in any other reliable locations.)
    Hmm. Why is it dismaying to point out that Flake voted lockstep for Trump’s policies? Why are centrists interested in anything resembling the current Republican platform?

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