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Can genre fiction be character-driven?

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majordan92

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Some literary critics claim genre fiction focuses more on plot rather than characters. But surely there are genre works out there that can balance the two, right? There is a reason why books like Harry Potter and Game of Thrones are popular. I believe it's because of the characters. They were people the readers cared about, who brought out strong emotions from their presence on the page.

We also take away themes from those books such as friendship, power, corruption, war, etc. I think genre fiction, when given the chance, can teach us about life and ourselves just as good as a literary novel. Do you think a science fiction or fantasy novel can have compelling and developed characters the readers care about while also holding them with an interesting plot at the same time?
 
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Shoeless

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I think in one sense, it's pretty much mandatory that genre fiction have a major character component. If you look at Stephen King's success in horror and fantasy, most of it is attributable to the fact that he spends huge amounts of time creating sympathetic, highly relatable characters, and that just means that the knife twists even deeper for readers when horrible things start happening. While it's true that people read genre fiction to find out what happens next, they'll only care about what happens next if they care about who it is happening to. And when you're talking about genre fiction, that runs the gamut. Some people will say that something like The Night Circus is too slow and lyrical, and really "only about the characters and the love story," but it's still quite proudly found in the fantasy section of bookstores. On the other hand, you have older science fiction stuff like Ender's Game that's all about wars with buggy aliens, but the larger concern is about putting gifted children through some pretty brutal training to whip them into shape as competent military strategists, and you have to care about Ender and his friends to give meaning to the overall "space war with bugs."

Some people are extremely gift at getting away with one breathless plot development after the next. Others are extremely good at making readers wish that this protagonist was in the room with them so they can give them a reassuring hug. There's room for both, as well as a balance of the two in genre fiction.
 

williemeikle

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Of course not. There are no characters in genre fiction. Victor Frankenstein, Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, Tarzan, John Carter, Conan, Doc Savage, Hercule Poirot and Miss Marple, all the way up to Harry Potter and his crew. Not a memorable character among them.
 
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VeryBigBeard

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Character vs. plot-driven narrative is a false dichotomy. Harry Potter is a series with incredibly vivid characters whose motivation drives much of the narrative as they react to fiendish and complex plots. Ditto GoT/ASoIaF. Ditto anything. Character is essential to story. Plot is essential to story.

Structure varies. Style varies. Execution varies, sometimes intentionally and sometimes less so. Genres, even forms, vary over time, across cultures, and depending on the writer's intent, which is the point.

Sadly, this hard distinction between plot and character comes up a lot in a certain subset of writing workshop. I've sat through more than a few. Ironically, I've been told by readers and critters in those kind of workshops that my work is far, far too "genre" to ever succeed and by readers elsewhere that my work is far, far too "literary" to ever be understood. As always, the truth is, I think, somewhere between the two and, usually, explicable in pretty technical terms: is the conflict clear? Do the characters have motivation to do what they do? Are they faced with a situation that forces a choice, reaction, or other development? Is there catharsis/pathos? These are fairly universal concepts, you find 'em in stories from the ancient world to the newest of new-age edgy literature, and you're still allowed to bend and play with them as necessary. There's no rule saying genre fiction can't use literary techniques and no rule saying literary fiction can't have space battles. If that were true, we'd be short a large number of very excellent books. In truth, even the terms "genre" and "literary" are suspect, used in such a broad and inaccurate fashion, but that tends to be the way the dichotomy is phrased, at least in my experience (which is likely not universal, obviously).

As a writer, your main concern is what works for a given story. Almost every story will bend and cross genre lines and blend styles. Many works of commercial sci-fi thriller owe tropes and history to more canonical work. Many "literary" tentpoles owe a lot of cultural nous and plot to pop culture. When we go to publish a book (as opposed to a story; stories become books at a certain point) or when we go to select a book to read next week, genre is a helpful way of sorting out groups of tropes and other constraints that we like. So too form (e.g., do I want a collection of short stories, a romance, a Romance, an epic, etc.?). So too traits like "character-driven" or "plot-driven". The desire to distinguish and categorize is both personally legitimate and culturally useful, but these things aren't dichotomous. Most dichotomies exist to make sense, to ease thinking, to add logic. Few hold a lot of truth.

As a writer, find truth.

Apologies for the rant. I spent a lot of time in those workshops and have been saving this one up for years.
 

Harlequin

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Of course not. There are no characters in genre fiction. Victor Frankenstein, Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, Tarzan, John Carter, Conan, Doc Savage, Hercule Poirot and Miss Marple, all the way up to Harry Potter and his crew. Not a memorable character among them.

Character vs. plot-driven narrative is a false dichotomy. Harry Potter is a series with incredibly vivid characters whose motivation drives much of the narrative as they react to fiendish and complex plots. Ditto GoT/ASoIaF. Ditto anything. Character is essential to story. Plot is essential to story.
(etc)

All the truth. Every bit of it matters.

I've read stories which do skew heavily to the character side, and literary fiction does suffer sometimes from a lack of sufficient plot structure (imo). I have also read a LOT of genre fiction with flat characters.

These are not really things to aim for in most cases, though. Regardless, there are plenty of examples all around where the necessary bits are done well.

For me personally, character driven is relevant only to my planning and writing stages; I want characters to reach a certain "end state" emotionally, and don't really care how I get there. The plot does have to work, but it fits in around the characters second. Soem people will do this the other way around. But for the overall MS to be completed, both do need to fit, and be developed. Like any other aspect.
 
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Cinnamon

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When you have Harry Potter mentioned in your own question, I think you already know the answer =). Yes, if this is the general idea on what a character-study narrative is, then of course it can be found enjoyable by the mass audience both for the plot and the development of the said character. Come on, HP books are huge.

But what the literati mean by the character-driven books is not, I think, what they see when they look at HP. HP is a mystery book disguised as a magic book. Every book of the series has a very strict detective plot underneath it. No, it is usually not considered character-driven in the artsy-fancy circles. ASoIaF is not character-driven as well, (at least not in my opinion) because it is a tragedy that relies heavily on chance and, again, plotting. Haven't you heard how everyone started insulting the Tv show after they ventured into the solitary sailing, without Martin's plot structures to support it? Arguably, it became more character-driven, if it ever was so to begin with. But... no, it isn't better because of that. The plot of the first three books is what holds ASoIaF together, and whatever people are saying about TV show writers' inability to follow those up with the latter seasons... isn't Martin also not quite well-received after the third book? The fourth and the fifth books he wrote are entirely character-driven. Do people like them as the previous ones? No, not nearly as much. They are inherently plot-driven, and without it they lose something.

Night Circus is romantic (as in Romanticism ideals and all that), and romantic lit was never character-driven, take Moby Dick, for example. So is Frankenstein. Detectives and adventure books are not character-driven books, let alone the fact that they are serials and are not meant to be read as a "one installment". Yes, even the Simpsons make Homer fleshed out throughout their many seasons. Does that make watching a single episode of Simpsons character-study? I think... not, but maybe that depends =). Romance novels might be more... character-driven, I believe, but that is because the genre stems directly from the literary, by which, I presume, most literati understand the classic --> realist --> modern lit. After all, Pride and Prejudice verges on being a Romance novel, no?

Not to argue with you, OP, but having characters inside a book does not make it a character-driven book. Character-driven is Anna Karenina or Brothers Karamazov, or Disgrace, or Beloved, or even Forsyte Saga... It doesn't have to be extremely good or even enjoyable, it merely has to be all about the characters, nothing else. Can you describe the plot of any of these books? The premise is not exactly a plot. Yes, Anna cheats on her husband. (So does Bovary, so does Effi Briest. You can still see the baseline differences between the books even though their premise is the same). Is that the plot? No. The plot is... essentially nonexistent, and that kinda makes it entirely character-driven.

Yes, good books try to have both the character development inside them and the plot to entice the reader, but rarely books outside of literary focus on characters at the expense of everything else. But that is probably not what the aforementioned literati mean when they say that genre cannot be character-driven. They basically say that without plot or other necessary gimmicks, genre stories sort of collapse.

Now, when I see a book on the shelves that is both fantasy and has no plot inside it to even cheatingly describe it so that I can understand, then we will be talking.
 
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Harlequin

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I'm sorry, but I don't even know where to start with that post. I feel like you're not assessing plots in literary novels quite right, and have some reverse snobbery in your point of view.

ASoIaF isn't more character driven, so much as the plot falls apart, but that's a wholly separate discussion.

The Etched City has almost no plot to speak of, is fantasy, and is probably 90-95% character study. Shadow of the Torturer is a character study in how a bad man learns to be a good one; each chapter is an indivdiual little story, but the overall plot doesn't become apparent until book 4 of 4, although there's a loose idea that it is detailing Severian's rise to Autarch.

Both of those novels are award winning... and so many many many other examples. Literary SFF / literary spec fic, is my absolute favorite genre.
 
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Cinnamon

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Character vs. plot-driven narrative is a false dichotomy. Harry Potter is a series with incredibly vivid characters whose motivation drives much of the narrative as they react to fiendish and complex plots. Ditto GoT/ASoIaF. Ditto anything. Character is essential to story. Plot is essential to story.

Structure varies. Style varies. Execution varies, sometimes intentionally and sometimes less so. Genres, even forms, vary over time, across cultures, and depending on the writer's intent, which is the point.

Sadly, this hard distinction between plot and character comes up a lot in a certain subset of writing workshop. I've sat through more than a few. Ironically, I've been told by readers and critters in those kind of workshops that my work is far, far too "genre" to ever succeed and by readers elsewhere that my work is far, far too "literary" to ever be understood. As always, the truth is, I think, somewhere between the two and, usually, explicable in pretty technical terms: is the conflict clear? Do the characters have motivation to do what they do? Are they faced with a situation that forces a choice, reaction, or other development? Is there catharsis/pathos? These are fairly universal concepts, you find 'em in stories from the ancient world to the newest of new-age edgy literature, and you're still allowed to bend and play with them as necessary. There's no rule saying genre fiction can't use literary techniques and no rule saying literary fiction can't have space battles. If that were true, we'd be short a large number of very excellent books. In truth, even the terms "genre" and "literary" are suspect, used in such a broad and inaccurate fashion, but that tends to be the way the dichotomy is phrased, at least in my experience (which is likely not universal, obviously).

As a writer, your main concern is what works for a given story. Almost every story will bend and cross genre lines and blend styles. Many works of commercial sci-fi thriller owe tropes and history to more canonical work. Many "literary" tentpoles owe a lot of cultural nous and plot to pop culture. When we go to publish a book (as opposed to a story; stories become books at a certain point) or when we go to select a book to read next week, genre is a helpful way of sorting out groups of tropes and other constraints that we like. So too form (e.g., do I want a collection of short stories, a romance, a Romance, an epic, etc.?). So too traits like "character-driven" or "plot-driven". The desire to distinguish and categorize is both personally legitimate and culturally useful, but these things aren't dichotomous. Most dichotomies exist to make sense, to ease thinking, to add logic. Few hold a lot of truth.

As a writer, find truth.

Apologies for the rant. I spent a lot of time in those workshops and have been saving this one up for years.

The problem is with literature itself and how it is posited. The restrictions of literary and genre are meant to reinforce the status held high by the authors of yore. They basically say "you can't be our Dickens because you write about elves and spaceships" by excluding the fact that Dickens was very pop author in his day and many of his contemporaries found him insufferably ridiculous because of that. But the fact is the fact: plot and character matter as the distinguishing features of their sides of the argument. That is why we sort of eliminated all the other differences between the genre and literary. It is a marketing technique, and describing it vaguely as "this is where you have to have tight plot" and "this is where you have to focus on the character at the expense of everything else" is how marketing techniques usually work. By being short and concise. =)
 
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Cinnamon

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I'm sorry, but I don't even know where to start with that post. I feel like you don't know how to assess plots in literary novels, and have a lot of reverse snobbery in your point of view.

ASoIaF isn't more character driven, so much as the plot falls apart, but that's a wholly separate discussion.

The Etched City has almost no plot to speak of, is fantasy, and is probably 90-95% character study. Shadow of the Torturer is a character study in how a bad man learns to be a good one; each chapter is an indivdiual little story, but the overall plot doesn't become apparent until book 4 of 4, although there's a loose idea that it is detailing Severian's rise to Autarch.

Both of those novels are award winning... and so many many many other examples.

Oh, believe me, I not a snob. I merely tried to explain what these "literary people" are saying by separating the two. Did I say I was one of them? I love my fantasy and scifi books, please don't label me based on some sentences that I said regarding the iffy distinctions made by people who are not even present in this thread, Sorry if my post triggered you, I didn't mean it so.

I am also sorry that I haven't read Etched City, although I started reading the Shadow of the Torturer, and didn't like it. And, as you say it, it is not a standalone novel to speak of it as a character study, based on your description. Again, go back to my Simpsons comment. Some episodes are more character-focused than the others, and as I said, it depends. Still, you won't see Simpsons competing against some artsy French cartoon because they are made with different audiences, expectations, awards, critics and yes, above all - marketing in mind.

Of course, as I said above, good books try to have both. "X-driven" is how I understand the baseline distinction made, again, with marketing in sight. It is a product, and that is how it sells. I have nothing to do with it, but when the question is "can't we forget about these distinctions, please?" I can't help but answer it accordingly. No, we can't. =) It is business, and it sells accordingly. That is why Nebula and Nobel so far do not mix that well. They have their pools and they adhere to them.

Again, sorry if something of this triggers you.
 
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Helix

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Oh, believe me, I not a snob. I merely tried to explain what these "literary people" are saying by separating the two. Did I say I was one of them? I love my fantasy and scifi books, please don't label me based on some sentences that I said regarding the iffy distinctions made by people who are not even present in this thread, Sorry if my post triggered you, I didn't mean it so.

"triggered"? Really?

These "literary people", these "literati", these nebulous They...do you have any examples of the things they are saying? Because offloading opinions under a don't shoot the messenger escape clause is lazy at best.

I am also sorry that I haven't read Etched City, although I started reading the Shadow of the Torturer, and didn't like it. And, as you say it, it is not a standalone novel to speak of it as a character study, based on your description. Again, go back to my Simpsons comment. Some episodes are more character-focused than the others, and as I said, it depends. Still, you won't see Simpsons competing against some artsy French cartoon because they are made with different audiences, expectations, awards, critics and yes, above all - marketing in mind.

Of course, as I said above, good books try to have both. "X-driven" is how I understand the baseline distinction made, again, with marketing in sight. It is a product, and that is how it sells. I have nothing to do with it, but when the question is "can't we forget about these distinctions, please?" I can't help but answer it accordingly. No, we can't. =) It is business, and it sells accordingly. That is why Nebula and Nobel so far do not mix that well. They have their pools and they adhere to them.

Again, sorry if something of this triggers you.

Again with the triggering. Are you really using that term? Really?
 

Harlequin

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It doesn't 'trigger' me. I'm not sure what that means tbh. A difference of opinion is not a trigger. I felt you made a lot of sweeping assumptions.

I personally think a lot of SFF is moving in the literary direction, and the genre definitions are being rewritten all the time.

Shadow of the Torturer has a very intricate plot. I want to say subtle plot, but that sounds pretentious. A lot of it is buried between the lines, and the series must be read as a cohesive whole (ie cannot start in book 2 and pick up from there.)
 
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Davy The First

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the line tween the two 'genre' and 'literary' have blurred on many an occasion. Some might say the great classics were genre, now defined as literary etc etc.

So, re the OP question, yes, and so can literary. :)

I suppose if one were to separate the two, one (or two) might argue that literary can be a character study only and nothing else, (but this can also be true of genre, on occasion,as per example above)

Thing is, character that interacts with nothing, doesn't exist, as far as I know. So, even a character study requires an interaction, and as character + interaction = plot....well...

:)
 

AW Admin

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All fiction belongs to a genre of some sort. Really, truly, they made me go to school for years so that I can be absolutely sure of that.

Genre means things like SF, or mystery or horror or romance; it also means bildungsroman, epistolary, picaresque, . . . so, first, of all, you're misusing genre.

Secondly, literary fiction is a marketing category; it's not a genre. Literary fiction examples can also belong (and usually do) to a genre.

Thirdly, making broad assertions based on nebulous references will not serve anyone well in discussing books.

Finally, this is a poorly thought out initial post, and I'm going to close the thread. If the OP wants to figure out what the post is about and wants to try again, that's very possible.
 
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