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Please help me with smells

Snowstorm

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Here's an idea for ideas on scents: single malt Scotch whisky sites. There are threads that discuss whiskies and with it some outstanding--and odd--scents. One whisky I sampled I said it "smells like Keds sneakers. New ones, not old ones."

Scotch people can come up with stellar descriptors. My favorite all-time descriptor from a connoisseur named Serge was "Clean wet dog, but not your ordinary street mongrel."

One site is the Scotch Malt Whisky Society. They bottle other distilleries' whisky and come up with their descriptors that are a hoot to read.

While you may not be able to really get it with your lack of smell, these sites may give you ideas on how to describe a smell without actually describing it.
 

Brightdreamer

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I think there is a tendency to imitate the highly successful Harry Potter books. The author is noted as acheiving a rich ambiance by including smells in her locations, so now kids are being taught to do that.

It's not just JKR. I've read the advice to use more sensory detail from others (Donald Maass, IIRC, for one prominent name). Many authors, especially beginning authors, stick to sights and maybe sounds to describe things, but humans can and do use our other senses, and (as others have mentioned) scent is closely linked to memories, making it a nice tool to have in a writer's toolbox. Not every scene or character needs a distinctive odor, but adding the odd nostalgic whiff of a lost husband's cologne as a widow packs away his clothes for charity, or the stink of alcohol betraying that Dad fell off the wagon while "working late", or the hint of smoke foretelling the fire about to consume the MC's house, etc. can help bring writing to life.

That said, I'd suggest that the OP not force it overmuch, especially if they have trouble processing smells naturally. A light touch (er, scent) would likely be best, IMHO.

Also, IIRC, Douglas Adams also had little to no sense of smell for much of his life; his posthumous book The Salmon of Doubt has an essay on that. He did decently as a writer for all that.
 

Roxxsmom

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And, speaking of pot - how would you describe the smell of pot without knowing it's pot? Like, if a character smells pot for the first time in his life and then realizes that he knows that smell already, having smelled it previously on people? Is it inherently different than tobacco smell?

Pot smells very different from tobacco, though there are some kinds of tobacco that maybe remind me just a bit of pot (it's a very faint acrid undertone).

I'd describe pot as an acrid, musky smell, sometimes a bit skunky as well as being smoky. It clings to things long after the source of the odor is gone. If colors were smells it would be a sort of olive drab or khaki color.

Then there's the smell of stale bong water, and the smell of carpeting that has had bong water repeatedly spilled on it.

As for whether the advice to include odors is a recent fad, I'd say no, it isn't. Creative writers were telling us to invoke all five senses and to be sure to include smell ever since I was in college, at least. That was well before Harry Potter came out.

Invoking all five senses doesn't mean including how every single person, place or thing in a story looks, sounds, feels, smells and tastes, however. This is what I tried to do when my college creative writing instructor gave us this advice, and it was a mess. From studying writers whose work I admire, I have come to the conclusion that it means focusing on one or two things that a character would ostensibly notice in a situation. The challenge is to portray them in a way that gets the setting and the emotional state of the character across in an economy of words while maintaining the right viewpoint or narrative voice for the story.
 
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ElaineA

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I think there is a tendency to imitate the highly successful Harry Potter books. The author is noted as acheiving a rich ambiance by including smells in her locations, so now kids are being taught to do that.

Hm. I've been including smells in my writing since before JKR was famous so I think, no. For me, smells are so evocative, they are a natural part of describing a setting.
 

Roxxsmom

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Hm. I've been including smells in my writing since before JKR was famous so I think, no. For me, smells are so evocative, they are a natural part of describing a setting.

Exactly. It's common for less experienced writers, and some experienced ones too, to focus only on visual description. Other senses can have a huge effect on one's emotional state.
 

sunandshadow

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I also love the smell of roses. It's generally agreed on that roses, or at least most types of roses, smell similar to citrus fruits (especially lemon). Earl Grey tea also smells similar, though more like oranges than lemons. This smell most likely comes from citric acid.

Honeysuckle is named that because it smells like honey. Green tea and sweet bean paste (the asian kind) also smell similar to honey.

Cabbage juice and vinegar smell similar, probably due to having a similar type of acid in both. Vinegar is acetic acid, though I dunno about cabbage.

Caramel and butterscotch are similar smelling, though butterscotch is a bit sharper.

Caraway and fennel are similar smelling and tasting to the point that people regularly substitute one for the other.

Horses tend to smell like hay, buy that's because they eat hay and also have straw bedding. Hay and straw (e.g. in straw hats) also smell similar to beeswax, as used in candles and wax sculpture. Other types of wax don't smell like this; they have very little smell unless they are scented candles.

Feet smell like popcorn, except not as tasty. :tongue
 

cornflake

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As to the excrement thing -- I don't know why some people don't like the scent of horse or cow manure, as I do, so I can't explain why someone thinks it's a 'bad' or unpleasant smell. I can say that the smell of any animal's excrement is affected by their diet. In my experience/opinion (as obviously this is hard to separate), animals (including humans), on meat-based diets tend to have way 'worse' smelling poo, and animals on primarily plant-based diets (like horses), produce manure that smells different, though this is also obviously affected by digestive systems and enzymes and gut bacteria and what exactly plants and yada. But in general.

Subjective: Besides learned associations that vary by individual and across cultures, there are some important genetic variants, too. I have the gene that lets me taste (smell) the sulfur-bearing compounds in many types of cabbage. Brussels Sprouts smell like rotten eggs, and broccoli is terribly bitter. But those who lack that gene taste it as sweet.

Is that the supertaster thing? Broccoli is swet! Not like candy sweet but sweet.

There is also context and concentration. Think of analogy with sound: a pleasant warm tone in the background turns into a horrible distraction if the same sound is played loudly. People have mentioned cheese: One way of making cheese really does smell like rancid sweat, because it literally is the same substance. Bacteria create lactic acid, and this can be a sign of germs in one context, but the desired farmed species in another. So, to people who like that cheese, a low-level smell is appetizing. But a more intense smell, like opening the sealed package of cheese, can make one think of a gym bag that was left a week instead of having its contents washed right away.

My brother-in-law: Whoh, that smells like stinky feet!
(after eating made-to-order gourmet mini pizzas)
BIL: Got any more of that stinky-feet cheese?

Conversely, to a lover, a man's natural body odor can seem to include notes of cheese or milk.

There are a few smells that seem hard-wired; especially bad ones. Smelling salts can rouse a person to consciousness, even though he has no real-world experience with similar smells to form an association. People will instinctively keep their face away from various cleaning products.

Components in the smell of cooking meat (the Maillard reaction) has been shown to stimulate certain brain structures associated with reward when viewed in fMRI, even among vegetarians who claim that meat stinks, and even when the isolated "notes" don’t smell like meat or bread or anything familiar really. The list on the page I linked here has a list of foods that have this, and you can suppose they all contain this same evocative sensation to some degree.

I'm super interested in this as the smell of meat (especially chicken, for whatever reason) has changed for me over the years. I used to think like, grilled chicken smelled good, even though I didn't eat it. Five or so years ago, maybe more, it started smelling NOXIOUS. Like it is absolutely stomach-churning, gag-inducing. Some cooking meat smells the same way, though sometimes grilling meat doesn't smell bad. I have wondered, as it is possible to lose the ability to produce enzymes that digest meat, that that process would then change your body's reaction to the smell of meat.

I wasn't eating it for years and years beforehand, and it smelled like 'regular,' and then suddenly, it was 'omg what is that smell, that's disgusting, omg' and it was cooking chicken.' So I think it has some biological base.

Other than that, the meaning of a smell is formed by association with experiences.

Another thing you should understand: people don’t have a conscious understanding of what smell is measuring, actually. With sound you have notes that vary by frequency; with vision you have R G B primaries that can combine to mimic the reading from some specific wavelength, and the colors that are perceived as different (rather than a sliding scale) are primaries and correlations between each pair of primaries. But smell? Each thing is simply different. It was only recently that researches figured out how the sensors measure specific fundamentals of electron vibration within the molecule; or rather, the part of the molecule in the way it fits in the reading slot. You can combine primaries to mimic any given smell.

But that’s not really the point I’m going for. A specific smell is like a chord of music: several notes going at once. You can pick out different voices in a crowd of people talking at once, by paying attention to one. But humans are very poor at separating mixed smells. Dogs, on the other hand, are said to have a "layered" sense of smell because they can.
 

JDlugosz

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Honeysuckle is named that because it smells like honey. Green tea and sweet bean paste (the asian kind) also smell similar to honey.

I think you’re weird.

Cabbage juice and vinegar smell similar, probably due to having a similar type of acid in both. Vinegar is acetic acid, though I dunno about cabbage.

You lack the extra receptor that I have, for certain sulfer compounds in cabbage.




Feet smell like popcorn, except not as tasty. :tongue

Now you’re being silly — don’t don’t confuse the poor guy. Lactic acid (feet, cheese) is nothing like the Milliard scents (toast, grilled anything really).
 

JDlugosz

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I have wondered, as it is possible to lose the ability to produce enzymes that digest meat, that that process would then change your body's reaction to the smell of meat.

Well, the Milliard scent is wired to the limbic system and doesn’t change with learning. But a mechanism to avoid smells associated with times you were sick to the stomach can override that with the more specific smell of chicken. The body doesn’t know magically; it learns what made you sick and stops you from eating that again.
 

Roxxsmom

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Cabbage smells like farts to me. I think it's the sulfur. We do a lab each semester where we use cabbage juice as a colorimetric pH indicator (red cabbage changes color with pH), and the whole room smells the way I imagine the restrooms might during the Jamestown Bean Festival.
 

cornflake

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Well, the Milliard scent is wired to the limbic system and doesn’t change with learning. But a mechanism to avoid smells associated with times you were sick to the stomach can override that with the more specific smell of chicken. The body doesn’t know magically; it learns what made you sick and stops you from eating that again.

I think you misunderstand -- chicken didn't make me sick, nor does the chicken smell the same as it used to. The smell itself (to me/my perception) changed. It used to smell like one thing 'chicken' now smells like some other thing 'gross thing I have identified to be cooking chicken.'
 

BethS

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people told me graveyards don't smell either

Depending on the location, they might smell of damp, musty earth, or of grass if freshly mown, or of flowers if freshly laid. I"ve been in a cemetery mausoleum chapel that stank, though--a faint, sickly sweet, rotting odor. I sat through an entire funeral with that smell and had to start breathing through my mouth. But probably most mausoleums are better sealed than that one was.

Strawberries smell wonderful, but you're right that they can often taste tart/sour by themselves. However, milk, cream, or yogurt really brings out the sweetness and suppresses that sour taste.
 
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BethS

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Subjective--good heavens, yes. I love the scent of cumin, and strongly dislike the smell of vanilla and dogs. :) But then there are scents like the herb cilantro; some people have a genetic predisposition to perceive the smell and taste of cilantro as repulsively soapy (raises hand) while other find it fresh and delightful. Not so subjective...

I abhor cilantro, but it doesn't taste soapy to me. Just...I don't know. Maybe faintly like anise (which I also dislike). But I can't really compare it to anything. It's obnoxious and a couple of leaves can ruin an entire dish for me.

I do love the smell (and taste!) of vanilla, though. :)
 

BethS

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Thank you everyone for replying. All of your advice is very good, and your observations about smells are very evocative and amazing to me. I enjoy perceiving smell vicariously through descriptions like these.

I do think I might perceive smells on some "memory" level because sometimes I have strange flashbacks to my childhood with a sharp sense of actually being in my old room for a few seconds. I guess it must be smell, but I can't put my finger on it, and have no idea what smell it even might be. But it just works (I suppose), subconsciously, without me knowing it.

I would recommend you read A Natural History of the Senses by Diane Ackerman, particularly the chapter on scent. It's beautifully written, and she'll get you looking at the sense of smell in a whole new way, which may help you in your writing.
 

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I have a very sensitive nose, but my husband notes that I can't smell the dog except if she's rolled in manure. Love, I guess. She just smells like babies to me. :D
 

SciSarahTops

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Durian fruit kind-of smells like propane and onions. Cumin spice kind-of smells like sweaty bodies.
See I would disagree to both of these! Durian to me smells like fermenting vegetable scraps. The back end of the market stall, or the tree you walk under when the berries are all squished and rotting underfoot. I guess the fermentation/alcohol thing is there with the propane but for me it's a hint of chemical, maybe like chloroform or that synthetic pear drops smell.

Cumin to me smells like a deeply toasty smoky smell. I'm sniffing it now and I can't really say more than that, although I recognise the flavour instantly.

Also. Coffee is bitter? That is cool, I always perceive coffee as sour-tasting and that makes it so strange to hear so many descriptions of it as being/smelling bitter. And since I was born anosmic, I don't actually experience the loss of taste, sorry to hear those who do and are miserable because of it. That must be frustrating.

Thank again!

Coffee can be sour, it is acidic sometimes and a very strong coffee is sour and bitter. It comes in a whole range of tastes, I prefer mine toasty and nutty. The sour stuff makes me feel sick by association (pregnancy nausea) .


Fresh cow dung can smell 'not unpleasant'... stale dung is getting gross. Carnivore poo is horrid. Fox poo is amongst the foulest smelling substance known to humankind.
Smoking pot to me smells like a very heavy, pungent smell of vegetation and smoke. I love the smell, again probably by past association. ;)
 

JDlugosz

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I think you misunderstand -- chicken didn't make me sick, nor does the chicken smell the same as it used to. The smell itself (to me/my perception) changed. It used to smell like one thing 'chicken' now smells like some other thing 'gross thing I have identified to be cooking chicken.'

I didn’t misunderstand. I'm relating on one known mechanism that produces such a perception, and stating that the body doesn’t simply know about digestive enzymes corelating to scent.
 

JDlugosz

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Strawberries smell wonderful, but you're right that they can often taste tart/sour by themselves. However, milk, cream, or yogurt really brings out the sweetness and suppresses that sour taste.

Strawberries are an interesting case, specifically. Why do they (hopefully) seem sweet, when lemons are sour and they are both the same acidity and sugar content? Some *other* chemical produced by the berry only when it’s ripe alters the perceptions of most mammal’s tounges.

IAC, that (both sweet and sour) is tounge taste, not olfactory sence.
 

Ihe R.G.

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I've always thought that cheap ketchup smells a bit like black tea. And other people's 2-day old sweat smells like they've been kneading curry under their armpits, ugh. And that's why I don't eat curry.
 

ElaineA

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Feet smell like popcorn, except not as tasty. :tongue

And dog feet smell like corn chips. That is a known, indisputable fact. :D

I don't mind horse poo, it's mostly straw-smelling, but for some reason cow poo has more of a sulfur/methane component that inches it up the stink-meter above horse for me.
 

cornflake

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I didn’t misunderstand. I'm relating on one known mechanism that produces such a perception, and stating that the body doesn’t simply know about digestive enzymes corelating to scent.

How do you know that? Do you have a link to any science proving that? Also, do you have a link to the study you mentioned showing vegetarians brains lighting up at meat scents the same as meat-eaters, because I can't find that, despite looking.

Strawberries are an interesting case, specifically. Why do they (hopefully) seem sweet, when lemons are sour and they are both the same acidity and sugar content? Some *other* chemical produced by the berry only when it’s ripe alters the perceptions of most mammal’s tounges.

IAC, that (both sweet and sour) is tounge taste, not olfactory sence.

Ok, lemons and strawberries do not have the same acid or sugar content. Lemons have more acid and less sugar than strawberries. Hence one is quite sour and acidic one is generally sweet.
 

Jan74

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What a great thread...and I plan on reading through it later.

Railroad tracks(outside) in the summer smells like creosote. It's a very intense smell, and if you're near a yard with piles of old railway ties you can really really smell it.
I hate the smell of ketchup on eggs it turns my stomach.
I can't stand the smell of overly ripe banana's.
I've never been to the west coast, but apparently the ocean stinks there, it's not salty smelling like Florida's coast, but stinky like fish. (my hubby went to the west coast his uncle lives on Vancouver Island and he said the ocean wasn't a nice smell) I went to the Florida coast and I LOVED the smell of the salty air! It didn't stink like fish.
Fallen leaves in the forest(autumn) smell very earthy because they are rotting and releasing carbon. I LOVE this smell it's probably my favorite smell.
Doritos smell like dirty feet or BO. As a kid my mother banned us from ever eating them in the house because the smell made her nauseous.

Did you know that a strawberry isn't technically a berry. It's not part of the berry family. A banana is a berry, a blueberry is a berry, a grape is a berry. Just a fun fact.
 

Jan74

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So reading this thread brought back a few funny memories for me.

When I was 18 I was doing a co-op placement(for school credit) with the O.P.P in the I-Unit(identification unit). I went to an autopsy with the officer and it is a very unique smell that I will never ever forget. The woman had died of old age and but it really really stunk. It smelled like burning hair and flesh. Anyways....after the autopsy it was lunch time and I went home(lived with my boyfriend) he made me clam chowder and grilled cheese. I couldn't eat it....in fact I lost my appetite for a few days....that smell took forever for me to numb it.

Many years later when I worked a the hospital we had a patient who was with us for 2yrs, she ate salsa everyday....her hands were stained red and the room reeked of it. She was over 300lbs and couldn't get out of bed(her family brought her in salsa and chips) anyways.....none of us nurses on the floor could eat salsa because of her. We adored her and she eventually passed away and when I think of her I smile...she had character.
 

Roxxsmom

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What a great thread...and I plan on reading through it later.

Railroad tracks(outside) in the summer smells like creosote. It's a very intense smell, and if you're near a yard with piles of old railway ties you can really really smell it.

You're right. I think they treat the wood on the railroad ties with the stuff.

I've never been to the west coast, but apparently the ocean stinks there, it's not salty smelling like Florida's coast, but stinky like fish.

I've never found the ocean out here stinky. It smells salty, fresh and invigorating to me. Though it can smell fishy or have that mudflat stink in bays or estuaries, especially when the tide is low. It may be a function of where your husband smelled it, or maybe you and he perceive these smells differently. I've never been to Florida, so I can't say if I think the ocean smells different there. The water is warmer, so it may well have a different aroma. We do have a lot of kelp on our beaches out here, and it has a sort of iodine smell. It can get stronger if it's been sitting out for a while during low tide. I grew up in a town by the coast, though, and I never realize how much I miss the smell of the ocean until I visit the coast.

A few smells that bother me a great deal:

1. That rotten egg smell that crops up near some mud flats or in some areas where there are algal blooms or for other reasons. It not only stinks, but it quite literally gives me a headache after a while. The nagging, throbbing kind that doesn't go away and makes me vaguely queasy after a while.

2. Strong feet. I had a couple of close male friends in college who had very stinky feet. They were both cute, but I never felt attracted to them, because that smell is such a turn off. I still remember all those guys who didn't wear socks with their loafers or tennis shoes back in the 80s. Sometimes they sat behind you in class with their feet under your chair. Gack! It often went beyond simple foot odor and smelled like there were two small, dead animals rotting at the ends of their legs.

Interestingly, I like the salty, musky smell of male sweat (some male sweat, anyway) if the guy has good hygiene and is simply sweating from exertion during dancing, sports or sex. Not at all the same thing as sweat on dirty laundry or on someone who hasn't washed for a long while.

3. Stale garlic on the breath or sweat of someone who has eaten a lot of it recently. My husband had an office mate in grad school for a while who ate lots of garlic (by the clove) for health reasons, and the whole room would smell like it. Fortunately, it didn't bother him as much as it does me. I'm very sensitive to fresh, raw garlic, and a tiny bit goes a long way in cooking for me. Stuff that's got lots of garlic (also onions) upsets my stomach and gives me a headache, so that's probably why I'm so sensitive to the smell on other people.

I must be sensitive to mercaptans (thiols) and other sulfur-bearing compounds, since those are responsible for all of these odors.
 
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