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Reworking Old Tales a la TH White

Taylor Harbin

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I'm sure this has happened to others. Ever read some amazing piece of folklore or mythology and asked "this is great material! why hasn't this been retold in this century?" TH White did this with Arthur (and based on what Moore did before him). Percy Jackson has been popular for some time. I've read some poetry that had limited circulation or have gone out of print, and I imagine them as modern tellings. Yet, there's so much talk about cultural appropriation that I often shy away from projects.

Where can the line be drawn? Are some things better left unwritten?
 

blacbird

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I'm sure this has happened to others. Ever read some amazing piece of folklore or mythology and asked "this is great material! why hasn't this been retold in this century?" TH White did this with Arthur (and based on what Moore did before him).

So did John Steinbeck. And William Faulkner retold the Biblical story of Jesus, albeit redressed in modern form, in A Fable. Five centuries ago, William Shakespeare made the most honored career in English-language literature by retelling older tales. In modern theater, we've had West Side Story, and in movies, Cool Hand Luke, Apocalypse Now, and O Brother, Where Art Thou?, classic pictures derived closely from earlier classic tales.

caw
 

indianroads

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I've considered reworking the Irish legends of Cuchulainn. It's been done, but could be retold.
 

Cinnamon

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It is great, actually, instantly gives you cool points from the literary majority. I think a lot about this myself, and, for example, if you look at the books that don't even retell anything particular but just borrow structures and motifs from the culturally significant books like Divine Comedy, Decameron, Canterbury Tales, Paradise Lost without commiting to the lore or doing any profound research, you will probably still note the good reception these books garnered. I would think the whole dome of postmodernism is somewhat reliant on retelling and reflecting on the ideas that came before us, no? So it is always a very fertile ground from the fiction standpoint, no matter what you take as the basis for retelling. Poetry, especially that of the Romantics, is long overdue for retellings, and is, in itself, the movement of taking old and redoing it for the modern audience of the 18-19th centuries! So if you do those, you would be retelling a retelling which is recursive and kinda exciting =).

And I have no idea what you mean by "cultural appropriation" in this context. Um, are you talking about stories that are not your own (as in your culture/ethnicity) and that you want to write about them without doing research and trying to be respectful to the original? I really see no problem here if you do this mindfully and with respect. As usual, any ethnic minority doesn't forbid anyone to retell their stories - they just want people to not fall back to cliches, and to actually research stuff before they write. And, if you won't go "Pocahontas" with it (i.e. completely undermine the story of what really happened in order to paint some character in better light, and disregard advice from the knowing people), then you will be fine. Also, don't go the "exoticizing route" of the customs and food and lore, and no one would think you are appropriating anything.

To answer your question about "where is the line?" I would say that... it might be somewhere but no one can tell where it is unless we choose it ourselves, I guess? No one can stop anyone from retelling/reviving anything, but the swamp of postmodern reimagining might lead to the fact that there will be less content to have the iconic status, in the possible future. Already, when someone tells me they are reimagining Paradise Lost (like the certain popular movie of this year's, Alien: Covenant) I want to roll my eyes. Or every time I hear something like Maleficent/Wicked/any other classic story where the villain is reimagined to be the actual hero. Or anything about King Arthur in contemporary cinema - everyone is just so tired/uninterested in seeing any retellings of those. Some motifs and ideas get so popular they no longer can be viewed without the lens of postmodernism and become mockeries of themselves, and are, therefore, already copies without the true original left to copy anymore. That kinda sucks, and leaves our pool of "cool things to reimagine later" that much shallower.

Yet I understand you are doing something obscure and no longer in print? Depending on what it is, it might even work in your favor due to the Unesco's and other funds that try to preserve and celebrate forgotten stories/cultures/languages support in any interest of the modern audiences towards the endangered lore. Some cultures are barely alive right now and are in desperate need of someone taking note of their stories before they (along with the endangered languages that carry them) vanish completely from the world. So preserving their narratives in any form might really be considered humanitarian-level work, and very fulfilling.


In a nutshell, of course retelling of stories needs caution, but so does everything =). Hope anything of this helps you with the decision.
 

Taylor Harbin

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And I have no idea what you mean by "cultural appropriation" in this context. Um, are you talking about stories that are not your own (as in your culture/ethnicity) and that you want to write about them without doing research and trying to be respectful to the original? I really see no problem here if you do this mindfully and with respect. As usual, any ethnic minority doesn't forbid anyone to retell their stories - they just want people to not fall back to cliches, and to actually research stuff before they write. And, if you won't go "Pocahontas" with it (i.e. completely undermine the story of what really happened in order to paint some character in better light, and disregard advice from the knowing people), then you will be fine. Also, don't go the "exoticizing route" of the customs and food and lore, and no one would think you are appropriating anything.

Yet I understand you are doing something obscure and no longer in print? Depending on what it is, it might even work in your favor due to the Unesco's and other funds that try to preserve and celebrate forgotten stories/cultures/languages support in any interest of the modern audiences towards the endangered lore. Some cultures are barely alive right now and are in desperate need of someone taking note of their stories before they (along with the endangered languages that carry them) vanish completely from the world. So preserving their narratives in any form might really be considered humanitarian-level work, and very fulfilling.


In a nutshell, of course retelling of stories needs caution, but so does everything =). Hope anything of this helps you with the decision.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply! I've run across people who took a hardliner stance against gathering inspirational/influential material and using it in one's own work, and they broadly define it as "cultural appropriation." One example in an article I read not long ago (I've been unable to find it, otherwise I'd post it). The subject was Elvis' music being largely influenced by African-American jazz and blues. It's documented that he gave credit to these sources, but the man they chose to interview (who I could've sworn was Spike Lee) insisted what Elvis did was wrong anyway. I've heard one side who only want a respectful treatment, and those who think that even with respect, one outside of Group X can never have a moral right to write because they are an outsider.

As to your next question, I'm referencing an epic poem called "The Story of Reynard the Fox." It was written by Goeth in 1794 and combined many old French, German, and Dutch folktales along with original material about the titular character (whose origins are in 11th Century Lorraine). It's among his least-known works (not even a Wiki article about it), and Reynard himself hasn't had a modern literary treatment since the 19th Century, as far as the actual folktales themselves go (at least to my knowledge; there is a French comic book series that focuses on him in an alternate 17th Century, and a novel by David Wintanowski that portrays a human named Reynard; Disney once considered making a film about him but turned it into Robin Hood instead). The whole time I was reading it I thought "This is great, but the language and poetic form might discourage modern readers. Would it make a good novel?"

I might be fussing about nothing, but it seems like it could be one of those damned if you do/don't situations, though I guess a lot of it would depend on execution.
 

Ihe R.G.

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You'll always have people on both sides of the fence with this. As long as you remain respectful of the original work and are aware of its historical-cultural context, it'll be fine.
 

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There are modern retellings of Reynard in picture book form.

This is also an area a number of medievalists have focussed on in terms of the variants of the myths and their relationships to international folk types.

You might also be interested in the ballad Reynardind; (Roud 397; Laws P15; G/D 2:333).
 

indianroads

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Myths often relate "teaching stories" of human nature. Cuchulainn for instance was a flawed egotistical dork, BUT he could back up his boasting, and in the end sacrificed himself for others. Another Irish legend, fionn mac cumhaill was a intelligent strategist and was famous, but always steered whatever praise that came his way to those who fought with him.

As such, we could take characters such as these and move them to a different context (as in modern or future times) and retell their stories.
 

JJ Litke

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As to your next question, I'm referencing an epic poem called "The Story of Reynard the Fox." It was written by Goeth in 1794 and combined many old French, German, and Dutch folktales along with original material about the titular character (whose origins are in 11th Century Lorraine). It's among his least-known works (not even a Wiki article about it),

But there is a Wikipedia page about Renard. It's not originally by Goeth, he wrote an adaption.

This isn't the same as cultural appropriation. Context and power dynamics are what turn adaption into appropriation. It's extremely unlikely that anyone would ever suggest cultural appropriation if you wrote an adaption of a European fable that crossed over several cultures.
 

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But there is a Wikipedia page about Renard. It's not originally by Goeth, he wrote an adaption.

This isn't the same as cultural appropriation. Context and power dynamics are what turn adaption into appropriation. It's extremely unlikely that anyone would ever suggest cultural appropriation if you wrote an adaption of a European fable that crossed over several cultures.

Reynard tales are classed as International Tale Types; like the Cinderella myth, they're inherent in multiple languages and cultures, to the point that they're not all considered derivative of the same ur-myth.
 

Taylor Harbin

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But there is a Wikipedia page about Renard. It's not originally by Goeth, he wrote an adaption.

This isn't the same as cultural appropriation. Context and power dynamics are what turn adaption into appropriation. It's extremely unlikely that anyone would ever suggest cultural appropriation if you wrote an adaption of a European fable that crossed over several cultures.

A very thought provoking article. Thanks!