Writing things that disturb you

if kicking the idea around in your head makes you miserable, why would you want to put yourself through first writing 350 pages of it, then editing 350 pages of it?


I think when people say to write things that make you uncomfortable, they mean not to shy away from making bad people, and even good people, do bad (and real) things. And, sometimes, therapy-writing. But I don't think anyone is saying "if this idea bugs you horribly, stick with it for the next half a year and push through it."

I would maybe ask what you think the benefits of writing this story were to you? Obviously it disturbed you to write it, and it produced enough of a reaction in you that you wanted to measure against others. I'm curious about how you feel about writing about these horrible farms beyond just your discomfort. Asking some questions might help you get at the discomfort - and also deeper into your story. What was uncomfortable about it? Just the premise? Was there a scene, or a moment, that provoked a reaction in you? Why?

I sometimes write about things that really bother me. Things I see in the world, or things within myself. I wouldn't call it therapeutic. I would say writing is a way of processing it, in some way I don't understand and probably never will. I have wondered if I didn't have this outlet and ability, and no way to discharge all this stuff in my head, what happen to me? Could I function on any level in a world where I had no recourse at all to address the horror and beauty of everything?

Echoing those who ask what the benefit to you is of pushing yourself through a concept that has you so rattled. It sounds like a nightmare, TBH - the kind of dystopian idea one might explore in a flash piece or short story, to work through anxieties about the direction of women's rights in my country, but not the kind I'm sure I'd want to stick with for an entire book... which, to an author, lasts a lot longer than it does to a reader, because we have to revisit it time and again in planning and writing and revising and rewriting and querying and so forth. Sounds like it's a vision right now, an idea so dark you can't help poking at it. Maybe explore it a bit to consider whether there's more to it, or if maybe it is just a flash piece of a short story and not a novel, a slice-of-life bit or commentary.

If you want to use this very, very dark idea for a novel - and, again, so far it sounds like an idea, which may or may not be enough to build a long story around - perhaps you could make it more tolerable by creating characters you really like and really root for, maybe working to subvert or end this practice... and I'd suggest you let them win, not only for your own sake but because, in fiction, it's still possible for the good guys and gals to end the bad things in the world.

JMHO...

I think even when dealing with dark and uncomfortable subjects you can still include hope and light, enough that writing it is not a completely miserable experience.

But if the subject matter is compelling to you, I say go for it. Most of my own books come in some way out of subjects that are painful or unnerving to me. Mental illness is something I've struggled with and also watched loved ones go through again and again, and so it's not surprising that it's often a major theme in my writing. Writing about things that trouble you can be cathartic, a way of confronting those issues head on, exploring them, and transforming them. Tapping into the darkness can, paradoxically, become a wellspring of strength.

I believe my characters should struggle in order to grow. How far you take that struggle is up to you.

In my first novel the MC's girlfriend is murdered by her stepfather. The MC hacks the step father to bits, then digs his girlfriend's grave and buries her. It's intended to be disturbing, but crucial to the story.

Tell the truth that your story needs.

semolinaro said:

Often times, I will see writers giving advice to write about something that makes you uncomfortable. Well recently I came up with something rather disturbing (almost difficult) for me to write.

This is something that shakes me to the core and even writing that made me uncomfortable. What do you think the benefits of writing things that make you uncomfortable are?

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I've never heard that advice and to be honest don't really see the point of it. If you want to write stuff that's scary and disturbing then go for it, because there are certainly readers that will read it if you write it well. Stephen King springs to mind here. But it seems to me that if a writer's not naturally inclined towards writing any particular kind of story then there's no need to force yourself to write it and I can't see what the benefit would be.

Writing is hard enough as it is when you're writing a story that you have a ton of enthusiasm for, you love your characters, where the story's going, etc, that forcing yourself to write something you're not enthusiastic about just seems like a pointless chore. And if you are enthusiastic about writing stuff that disturbs you then go for it and you don't need any reason or justification for writing it. If the story's inside you and burning to be written then write it.

The only context I can see where the advice might apply would be if someone's overprotecting their MC and afraid to write about anything bad happening to him/her, and as a result there's no story. Then you have to write about something that rocks the boat and makes their MC's life difficult and then write about how the MC overcomes the difficulties and then you have a story. And in a similar vein, having the MC do something that's bad or stupid and how they deal with the consequences, because in real life people do stuff like this and an MC who's perfect and never makes mistakes is boring and very unrealistic. But as general advice or as "all writers should do this" I can't see the point of it.

I guess in addendum to what I said before... you've not describe *a story*, just a setting, which makes it harder to gauge.

Within that setting, the story could follow one of the women who escapes, and so have a clear underdog hero; follow a staff member who rebels, and show his redemption; or it could follow a business man who sets up the business, and so be grim/dark. But a story being uncomfortable is not the same as setting elements being uncomfortable and would make a difference to how I evaluate it.

quicklime said:

if kicking the idea around in your head makes you miserable, why would you want to put yourself through first writing 350 pages of it, then editing 350 pages of it?


I think when people say to write things that make you uncomfortable, they mean not to shy away from making bad people, and even good people, do bad (and real) things. And, sometimes, therapy-writing. But I don't think anyone is saying "if this idea bugs you horribly, stick with it for the next half a year and push through it."

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More or less what I was going to say.

I only write about disturbing things when I'm trying to get them out of my psyche. Once they're written down, they don't bother me so much. I definitely wouldn't work out a plot that deliberately upsets my equilibrium and spend the next year of my life looking at it every day. That just sounds like a recipe for a mental breakdown to me.

semolinaro said:

Often times, I will see writers giving advice to write about something that makes you uncomfortable. What do you think the benefits of writing things that make you uncomfortable are?

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Yow, there's uncomfortable and there's uncomfortable!

I've heard the same advice before, but I usually take it as pushing yourself/your reader outside of their comfort zone. Just a nudge, if you will.

Not quite the extremes you're imagining, right?

indianroads said:

In my first novel the MC's girlfriend is murdered by her stepfather. The MC hacks the step father to bits, then digs his girlfriend's grave and buries her.

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Might I suggest you check out the fridging trope?

Judging by this and some of your other posts, I hope you'll be open to changing some of your portrayals of women. I've had my stumbles along the way, too, and am not ashamed to admit that.

This is a hard question for me to answer, because I don't think in themes, I think in stories.

I have to admit, my stories tend to be dark, and I can't say I find it disturbing or repulsive. The themes intrigue me, and offer a lot of space for a strong story to develop. But that's the point--it should be about the story, not the theme. I can't stress enough how furious I get when people abuse dark themes just for the sake of darkness, or use gory splatterpunk with no relevance to plot or setting. Dark themes are great--just make sure you have real characters, and a strong story.

Also, disturbing is bad wording, in my opinion. I can never understand what people mean by that:
1. "This is disgusting; it makes me want to avert my eyes"--I would define this as repulsive.
2. "This is unusual; it makes me want to read (or write) more"--I would define this as dark (for people who enjoy dark themes).

If it's the first option, I'd leave the idea to starve in the corner. Why would I write a story that urges me to look away? Why would I suffer? I write because I enjoy storytelling.

If it's the second option, then sure, go ahead. Although, if you are not a fan of dark themes, and you are still tempted to run away, I'd reconsider.

I write a lot of things that make me uncomfortable. (I guess that makes me a masochist.) The point is not to write something for the sole purpose of making myself uncomfortable...the point is to write something evocative, something compelling. And the uncomfortable is often evocative and compelling. For me, a lot of my story ideas emerge from questions. The kind of questions that keep me up at night. (Because "Did I buy foil? I hope I remembered to buy foil." is not something I've successfully turned into a story plot as of yet.) Can I still be a good person if I do a really bad thing? Would people miss me if I died? Would I survive if someone attacked me? If I went blind, could I still do my art?

Does it benefit me to write stories that stem from these worries? Yes. It does. It gives me a place to direct that energy. To explore what scares me from a safe distance. To create a plan in case of the apocalypse, or blindness, or bad behavior.

I draw, too, and most of what I draw is a little uncomfortable. When my stepfather was in hospice, my mother sent me a lot of terrible pictures of his face as he was dying. What do you do with this? What could I do? I drew them. It was an act of love. To both of us. I drew his death mask, and his skeletal shoulders, and his jaw slack with his dentures out. I drew those things because he was dying and it was awful and ugly and we are all going to die; I drew them because I loved him and it was happening, it was real, and I had no power over it except the power to record it. And it helped me, it really helped me, because it gave me a platform for my grief. It allowed me to process it, to own my loss in my space, my way. And those drawings are some of my favorite that I've ever done.

Is writing a story about the government using women as brood mares going to benefit you? I can't answer that, of course, because it depends entirely on how you write it and what about it disturbs you the most. If you write just to be disturbed, then no, it won't benefit you. But if you write to find hope, to explore the scary places, then yes, it can be a extremely fulfilling exercise.

For me, the keyword is "balance." Make the story as dark as you want and let in some light. Good springs from horrible things.

I don't know that "write what make you uncomfortable" necessarily means writing something dark. I think the heart of it is that we shouldn't shy away from writing something *just because* it's uncomfortable. That could mean anything to anyone. Maybe a writer is uncomfortable writing about something as mundane as a teenager backtalking, because when he was a teenager, it earned him a fist in the face. Or maybe a writer is uncomfortable writing about a character who is happy being a housewife when the writer herself finds that life choice demeaning. I think the advice at its core is to explore things that make you uncomfortable so you stretch not only your writing skills, but your understanding of your fellow humans. I don't think it means to force yourself to write things that make you want to vomit.

A fairly significant portion of my book, which when the layers are peeled away is semi-autobiographical, is incredibly painful and hard for me to write.

Yet I feel I'm telling truth inside of an (I hope) interesting, engaging story by putting this bit of reality into it, and it is necessary to the central plot.

What I do is for those difficult scenes, I may write only half a scene in one day, half the next or whatever. (So maybe 500 words for each of these days rather than trying for 1000+ in a given day.)

I take my time. I remember and experience that pain and try to relay it carefully so as to be accurate and to advance the plot but to also be non-whiny, non-self-indulgent and be understandable to my reader, who doesn't know me and wants to have her own experience reading a book, not have an experience shoved at her with "this is how you SHOULD feel about all this" intimations. (I hate being "led" like that as a reader myself.)

I say, take it in small bites. Experience, rather than write, it and then clean it all up later, after you have down your main ideas and the basic dialog and so on. In the meantime you have addressed it, put your toe into the water, and I promise the next time you address the same scene, you will have just a tiny bit of perspective and the ability to take on a bit more of it. If it takes several more passes, it does, but for now I'd say write down what you can to get the general ideas down, taking the time and breaks you need to do it, then move forward from there. Then revisit your painful scenes later.

Just what's working for me, at least for now.

I was once told that the things that make us uncomfortable are exactly the things we need to look deeply into in order to grow as human beings.

The example Carrie gave about writing about a happy housewife when the author finds it demeaning is apt. Why does the author feel that another person's choice is demeaning? OR in writing that character, can we explore why the character feels that way... as in FOO issues and the like - and maybe the character is just acting happy? Or feels insecure in her own abilities to live on her own?

The novel I mentioned earlier that had a revenge murder was not about that murder, or even about retribution at all. It was about coping with loss and pain in life. The MC (an early teen boy) had been abandoned by his parents, thrown into juvie, then put into an abusive foster care family. He ran away and lived on the streets selling drugs to junkies to survive. He finds solace in a relationship with a girl he meets on the street, and when her step father murders her he flies into a rage and kills her step father. He then deals with sadness when he buries her body, then hides the step father's body so it is never found. It's a story about survival in an unjust world, and how someone can transform themselves into someone new. Yes, the murder scene was uncomfortable, but it was necessary to the story.

There's an old story about a dog sitting on a nail...
The dog howls in pain but doesn't move - and a passerby asks why. The dog owner's answer was "I guess it doesn't hurt that bad."

My point is that sometimes trauma is necessary to get our characters to move and grow.

There is no virtue, psychological, moral or spiritual, in dwelling in a painfully dark place simply to go there and see what it's like. If a person cut their fingers and toes off, one at a time, merely to experience the sensation and feel what it means to be crippled, we would consider them a fit candidate for court-ordered psychiatric treatment. Yet many of us see no fault or harm in abusing the most delicate thing we own--our brain--in too similar ways.

Living vicariously through someone else's trauma can traumatize you. Hearing about trauma through someone who has lived it can traumatize you. The tracks we make in our brains through "seeing" by reading tend to stay there.

Why not make it a point to care for your mental health through what you read and write, rather than see how far you can go in doing damage before you hit overload?

L.C. Blackwell said:

There is no virtue, psychological, moral or spiritual, in dwelling in a painfully dark place simply to go there and see what it's like. If a person cut their fingers and toes off, one at a time, merely to experience the sensation and feel what it means to be crippled, we would consider them a fit candidate for court-ordered psychiatric treatment. Yet many of us see no fault or harm in abusing the most delicate thing we own--our brain--in too similar ways.

Living vicariously through someone else's trauma can traumatize you. Hearing about trauma through someone who has lived it can traumatize you. The tracks we make in our brains through "seeing" by reading tend to stay there.

Why not make it a point to care for your mental health through what you read and write, rather than see how far you can go in doing damage before you hit overload?

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Good points - and I agree with much of what you wrote. However, trauma is almost unavoidable in life. It can be like a bully at school, if you hide from him he will continue to pick on you - but if you confront, even if you come out on the losing end, you'll be better off.

IMO conflict is necessary in writing - unless we are writing for preschoolers.

L.C. Blackwell said:

There is no virtue, psychological, moral or spiritual, in dwelling in a painfully dark place simply to go there and see what it's like. If a person cut their fingers and toes off, one at a time, merely to experience the sensation and feel what it means to be crippled, we would consider them a fit candidate for court-ordered psychiatric treatment. Yet many of us see no fault or harm in abusing the most delicate thing we own--our brain--in too similar ways.

Living vicariously through someone else's trauma can traumatize you. Hearing about trauma through someone who has lived it can traumatize you. The tracks we make in our brains through "seeing" by reading tend to stay there.

Why not make it a point to care for your mental health through what you read and write, rather than see how far you can go in doing damage before you hit overload?

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^^^I love this.

I've never heard "write what makes you uncomfortable" before, I've heard "write the story you want to read" so if you want to read things that make you uncomfortable then I say go for it. If there is story you have to get out because it's begging for you to tell it, then I say go for it. But writing "just" for the sake of feeling uncomfortable well I say no. I have read many true stories of horrifying real events and now I don't, I can't emotionally handle it, it sticks with me for weeks and I can't deal with it. So I know at this stage of my life I could never write like Anne Rule.

This thread is really interesting to me. I joined AW (and CC) precisely because someone close to me described something I'd written as disgusting, vile and repulsive and I wanted the feedback of others.

Personally, I see no harm in reading or writing whatever makes you uncomfortable. The idea that you may be traumatised by it (you may or may not be) seems to suggest we should stay away from anything not considered nourishing - which as a writer horrifies me. That said, it's largely horses for courses. Reading or writing what's uncomfortable or dark is down to you. If it has such a negative impact on you, don't do it.

There is a difference between difficult because it's triggering growth and difficult because it's just sick, depressing muck. I agree with the idea of writing the story you want to read. If that story takes you to dark places, so be it. But if it's merely a collection of cruelty on top of cruelty to fictional characters, what's the point? There are enough horrors in the real world to spend time suffering needlessly over what happens to imaginary ones. That doesn't make the world better.

Twick said:

There is a difference between difficult because it's triggering growth and difficult because it's just sick, depressing muck. I agree with the idea of writing the story you want to read. If that story takes you to dark places, so be it. But if it's merely a collection of cruelty on top of cruelty to fictional characters, what's the point? There are enough horrors in the real world to spend time suffering needlessly over what happens to imaginary ones. That doesn't make the world better.

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I agree. Hopefully no one here is writing the script for the next SAW movie.

Oh, you know, I think I missed the point here. The OP was specifically told to write something disturbing, even though she hadn't already thought/wanted to do so? As an exercise or something? Hmmm. I would think if it's an exercise, it's a way to dig deep, find out what makes you tick, and maybe peel away the Mary Sue or "standard issue"-type writing we so often see in novels? I don't know. That's just what comes to mind.

I wouldn't enjoy such an exercise** but I guess I can see where it could yield some interesting results. I don't think it's required or anything in order to be a good writer, though.

I DO think in order to be a good writer you need to peel back the layers of yourself, though. I think that's where the individuality lies.

JMO.

**As I noted above, I AM required to write uncomfortable (to me) things in my novel but that's my own choice and I didn't deliberately sit down and say "I want to write something uncomfortable and unsavory because that will mean I'm doing things correctly" or anything like that. Rather, my story is highly psychological and the MC herself is required to dig up repressed memories, and in order to do that accurately I'm inserting, to a degree, my own experience with this. And no, I don't...like it, exactly. OTOH, I do feel it's almost cathartic in a way. I am going gentle on myself in writing it; it's almost as if the first time, I was forced to experience it; the second time, I'm afforded the opportunity to process it slowly and deal with it on my own terms. Hope that makes sense. I do feel this is pretty different from someone sitting me down and saying, "Mel, write about something that makes you horrifically uncomfortable." I think I'd rather resent that, actually.