Harvey Weinstein resigns in sexual harrassment scandal

Roxxsmom

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We do need more enforceable laws, we need to have this stopped. We need men to stop protecting one another and we need a huge change in attitude.It makes me feel ill just writing this kind of post. I keep thinking that nothing has improved and it is getting worse for generations of children and women to come. That is soul-destroying.

And men need to be called out when they insist that guys who do this kind of thing are just kidding around, or just being friendly, and that women really like it.

Sometimes I wonder if men and boys are getting more vicious overall, that it's a reaction to the rising social status of women and women's greater prominence in public life.

Maybe some men and boys do act out because they resent women's "encroachment" on what they consider to be their own turf, but this kind of thing is nothing new. My mom was sexually assaulted by some boys when she was a pre-adolescent. They threatened to "get" her brother if she told (he was being bullied a lot by his peers at that point), so she never did.

She never defined what happened as sexual assault. Back then it was just boys being boys and maybe getting too carried away. And anyway, what was she doing, playing in that vacant lot after school? The boys might have gotten "in trouble" if someone found out, but no one would have defined such behavior as "sick," or even particularly aberrant.
 
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Celia Cyanide

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Ok, I just have to ask this...I don't want take anything away from Rose McGowan, but if she keeps calling out all the people she believes knew about Weinstein...didn't she know about Victor Salva when she did Rosebud Lane?
 

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I think at some point, we have to realize that no one - not in Hollywood, not in any business - can get up in the morning and say "today I'm only going to work with people who are ethically pure." Anyone who wanted to be a serious star, who wanted to work in artistic movies, would at some point have to deal with the Weinsteins. They were good at what they did, even if they're not good people.

I think we have to save our outrage at Weinstein himself, and those who were called upon to help, had the power to help, and didn't. For example, the agents that sent young women up to Weinstein's hotel room without warning, knowing what would happen there.

The people who simply heard "y'know, some people say that Weinstein pushes himself on actresses" really didn't have much they could do other than try a boycott. And boycotting on gossip is a morally tricky stance.

Victor Salva, on the other hand, is a convicted sex offender. Certainly the people who hired him have to explain why they thought that was a good idea.
 

Twick

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And why doesn't she have to explain why she thought it was a good idea to collect a paycheck from him?

I suppose a good answer would be "I have to eat. I could be paid by a convicted sex offender or by one of the ones who aren't convicted yet."

If all the women who took pay from evil men have to grovel and beg forgiveness for wanting to work, I don't think we're improving their situation.
 

Celia Cyanide

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I suppose a good answer would be "I have to eat. I could be paid by a convicted sex offender or by one of the ones who aren't convicted yet."

If all the women who took pay from evil men have to grovel and beg forgiveness for wanting to work, I don't think we're improving their situation.

And what about EVERYONE ELSE she is publicly shaming for knowing about Weinstein and still working with him? Did they not have to eat?

ETA: and yes, I have MAJOR issues with Disney hiring this guy to direct right after he got out of prison for sexually abusing a twelve year old and filming it.

ETA2: This is what she said about him:

https://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/features/2011/08/11/rose-mcgowan-my-life-l-word

When asked about Salva being a convicted sex offender:

[FONT=&quot]"Yeah, I still don’t really understand the whole story or history there, and I’d rather not, because it’s not really my business. But he’s an incredibly sweet and gentle man, lovely to his crew, and a very hard worker."[/FONT]
 
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M Louise

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This is the kind of minefield I haven't ventured into for a long time.

It's so hard to say women who have been sexually abused should have spoken up sooner or refused to work with other abusers or spoken up on behalf of other women. I spent years minimising and denying that what happened to me was that serious. And I worked in corporate environments where I felt I could take care of myself and wasn't sure why other women couldn't do what I did. As if I was in control, as if I had the same choices as other women , as if I could make the same choices as male co-workers and employers. I was split off inside from what had happened to me.

After I posted something here yesterday on my history of being abused, I felt as if I had travestied myself as too much of a victim. (This is why telling these truths is so fraught.) Because the outside coping me is different and a survivor: there are so many times I have spoken up and said no, written about what happened to me, confronted predatory men and gone public with demands they be made accountable, threatened those who abused family and friends with charges or exposure, had support from caring men, invaluable support from strong activist women, had partners who've believed me, therapists who heard me. It is a story about survival as much as victimisation.

But that underbelly of unsafeness and the repeated traumas stays with me. And until I know much more about what choices and relative power women have had -- and it is hard with celebrities to work out what constitutes real power in that unreal world -- I hold back on judging them or dismissing what they say. My maternal grandmother said women were to blame for what happened to them, she insisted women were the architects of their own misfortune because a smart woman can always manage a man. She wouldn't support any of her daughters and wouldn't believe any woman who 'claimed' to have been raped. She finally, aged 83, told a pastor that she had been violently raped as a small child and bled for weeks afterwards. She still believed it was her fault.
 

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Why is it so hard for people to believe others when they tell them something is wrong? So many people are so quick to jump to the idea "what if this story is false and the person complaining is just trying to get someone in trouble." Like, have THEY regularly made up stories to get someone else in trouble? Why is that the go-to assumption?

As a child, my mother was sexually abused by a neighbor boy. He told her if she blabbed to her parents, he'd just say it was her (my mother's) idea. She kept her mouth shut for 50 years, because she knew, KNEW that her own mother would believe this boy's story over that of her own daughter. With the perspective of time and adulthood, I have to say... I agree. Knowing my grandmother, she would have believed the boy. My mother had to choose between ongoing abuse, or ongoing abuse AND being unjustly punished.

Shit.
 
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nighttimer

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Academy Award winner Lupita Nyong'o has a Harvey Weinstein story.


Not long after we met in Berlin, Harvey wrote to me inviting me to attend a screening of a film — a competitor’s film similar to one he had produced. He said we would be watching it with his family at his home in Westport, Conn., which was not far away from New Haven, where I was living at the time. He would send a car to pick me up. I accepted the invitation.

The driver and I met Harvey in the little town of Westport, where he informed me that we would be having lunch at a restaurant before getting to his home. I did not think much of this. It was a busy restaurant, and as soon as we sat down he ordered a vodka and diet soda for himself. I asked for a juice. Harvey was unimpressed with my choice and told the waiter to bring me a vodka and diet soda instead. I declined and said I wanted the juice. We went back and forth until finally he turned to the waiter and said, “Get her what I tell you to get her. I’m the one paying the bill.” I smiled and remained silent. The waiter left and returned with a vodka and diet soda for me. He placed it on the table beside my water. I drank the water. Harvey told me that I needed to drink the vodka and diet soda. I informed him that I would not.

“Why not?” I remember him asking. “Because I don’t like vodka, and I don’t like diet soda, and I don’t like them together,” I said. “You are going to drink that,” he insisted. I smiled again and said that I wouldn’t. He gave up and called me stubborn. I said, “I know.” And the meal proceeded without much further ado. In this second encounter with Harvey, I found him to be pushy and idiosyncratic more than anything.

We got to his home after lunch and I met his domestic staff and his young children. He took me on a brief tour of the house before he rounded us all up in the screening room to watch the film. He had just produced a similar film of his own, but everyone was raving about this rival version.


I settled in for the film, but about 15 minutes in, Harvey came for me, saying he wanted to show me something. I protested that I wanted to finish the film first, but he insisted I go with him, laying down the law as though I too was one of his children. I did not want another back-and-forth in front of his kids, so I complied and left the room with him. I explained that I really wanted to see the film. He said we’d go back shortly.


Harvey led me into a bedroom — his bedroom — and announced that he wanted to give me a massage. I thought he was joking at first. He was not. For the first time since I met him, I felt unsafe. I panicked a little and thought quickly to offer to give him one instead: It would allow me to be in control physically, to know exactly where his hands were at all times.


Part of our drama school curriculum at Yale included body work, using massage techniques on one another to understand the connection between body, mind and emotion, and so I felt I could rationalize giving him one and keep a semblance of professionalism in spite of the bizarre circumstance. He agreed to this and lay on the bed. I began to massage his back to buy myself time to figure out how to extricate myself from this undesirable situation. Before long he said he wanted to take off his pants. I told him not to do that and informed him that it would make me extremely uncomfortable. He got up anyway to do so and I headed for the door, saying that I was not at all comfortable with that. “If we’re not going to watch the film, I really should head back to school,” I said.


I opened the door and stood by the frame. He put his shirt on and again mentioned how stubborn I was. I agreed with an easy laugh, trying to get myself out of the situation safely. I was after all on his premises, and the members of his household, the potential witnesses, were all (strategically, it seems to me now) in a soundproof room.

I didn’t quite know how to process the massage incident. I reasoned that it had been inappropriate and uncalled-for, but not overtly sexual. I was entering into a business where the intimate is often professional and so the lines are blurred. I was in an educational program where I was giving massages to my classmates and colleagues every day. Though the incident with Harvey had made me uncomfortable, I was able to explain and justify it to myself, and shelve it as an awkward moment. His offer to me to be a part of the HBO show was a very attractive one and I was excited about it, especially as I would be graduating in another year. I didn’t know how to proceed without jeopardizing my future. But I knew I would not be accepting any more visits to private spaces with Harvey Weinstein.
 

Roxxsmom

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Yech.

She articulates the kinds of things that go through victim's minds very well. The cleverest abusers are skilled at manipulating people into situations where making a fuss makes the victim look like the crazy one, or where the victim themselves questions whether or not a line has *really* been crossed.
 

Xelebes

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So I take it the massage thing is something he learned in drama classes? Ugh. The drama classes I took in junior and high school had nothing like that. Although we did do it once in choir. Hrm.
 

Celia Cyanide

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Kevin Smith is donating the residuals from his movies to Women In Film:

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...tein-movie-residuals-to-women-in-film-w509664

"No fucking movie is worth all this. Like, my entire career, fuck it, take it," he continued. "It's wrapped up in something really fucking horrible. I'm not looking for sympathy. I know it's not my fault, but I didn't fucking help. I sat out there talking about this man like he was a hero, like he was my friend, like he was my father and shit like that."
 

nighttimer

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Kevin Smith is donating the residuals from his movies to Women In Film:

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...tein-movie-residuals-to-women-in-film-w509664

"No fucking movie is worth all this. Like, my entire career, fuck it, take it," he continued. "It's wrapped up in something really fucking horrible. I'm not looking for sympathy. I know it's not my fault, but I didn't fucking help. I sat out there talking about this man like he was a hero, like he was my friend, like he was my father and shit like that."

Good for the Yoga Hoser. But it still has the feel of a day later and a dollar short make-good move.
In an interview with the New York Times published Thursday, director Quentin Tarantino admitted that he has known some details of Harvey Weinstein's alleged misconduct toward women for decades.


“I knew enough to do more than I did,” he said. “There was more to it than just the normal rumors, the normal gossip. It wasn’t secondhand. I knew he did a couple of these things.”


In the article, Tarantino, who has seen every one of his films since "Pulp Fiction" released by Miramax or the Weinstein Co. and is perhaps the Hollywood director most closely tied to the fallen producer, admitted to being told by his former girlfriend Mira Sorvino about Weinstein's unsavory actions. He also revealed that he knew actress Rose McGowan, who says she was raped by Weinstein, had reached a settlement with the producer.


“I wish I had taken responsibility for what I heard,” he said. “If I had done the work I should have done then, I would have had to not work with him.”


What I did was marginalize the incidents,” he added. “Anything I say now will sound like a crappy excuse.”



Pretty much nailed it in one, Q.T. Excuses are like assholes. :e2moon: Everybody's got one. Here's the thing though: It's not just Weinstein. If Tarantino heard "the normal rumors and gossips" about Weinstein, he's heard the rumors and gossip about other guys (and probably a few gals) just like Weinstein. What's he doing about them?

I don't know if Quentin Tarantino deserves to be put on blast for turning a blind eye to Weinstein's reign of terror, or deserves a small smidgen of credit for fessing up that he stood by and did nothing.

Naaaaaaahhhhh... :e2sling:
 

Harlequin

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The worst part of the Tarantino article to me is that he acknowledges this happened to his girlfriend, but apparently he justified this to himself as weinstein being especially into her. And so he assumed that was just a special case or something.

How does that make it better?! Dude, your gf. What the fuck. I can almost understand not sticking up for people you don't know but someone he's dating and professes to care a smidgen about?
 

Celia Cyanide

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Good for the Yoga Hoser. But it still has the feel of a day later and a dollar short make-good move.

Curious why you would say that. You think he knew before? Maybe he did. I don't know. But he is actually not as successful as he once was, so for him to donate his residuals is pretty generous. And I haven't seen anybody else, with more money and clout than him, do that yet.
 

Roxxsmom

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My reaction to these heartfelt confessions and apologies will depend on whether or not there's an actual long-term change in these people's behaviors. When the next serial abuser comes to light in Hollywood--and it's a when, not an if--will these people (and others) be making the same apologies? Or will they actually notice what's going on, listen to those rumors, and help the victims that are still being abused by the other Weinsteins out there?

Because I have this sinking feeling that Weinstein isn't exactly unique.

And Terrantino's wording, in particular, doesn't give me a lot of confidence.

“I knew enough to do more than I did,” he said. “There was more to it than just the normal rumors, the normal gossip. It wasn’t secondhand. I knew he did a couple of these things.”

The reference to "normal rumors," for instance, implies that he's still inclined to think that those whispers are mostly fake. That people (especially women) make up and share stories of sexual abuse for fun or something. Also, the did "a couple" of those things. Just a couple. Really? So all the other women were liars, or sadly deluded?

And WTF dude? The man assaulted your girlfriend and you didn't say anything? What's changed now in your mind?
 
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Twick

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My reading of his statement is a little different, although it doesn't cast him in a better light. He's saying that large numbers of people in Hollywood have "normal rumours" about them. Things that other people in Hollywood probably brush off as spite, or jealousy, or misunderstandings. But he *knew* (as opposed to hearing second hand) that Weinstein had actually committed several of the things people were gossiping about. And he still didn't do anything about it, or wonder what proportion of "normal rumours" were actually true about his colleagues.
 

nighttimer

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Curious why you would say that. You think he knew before? Maybe he did. I don't know. But he is actually not as successful as he once was, so for him to donate his residuals is pretty generous. And I haven't seen anybody else, with more money and clout than him, do that yet.

It is generous by Kevin Smith, and I like Kevin Smith the guy a lot more than Kevin Smith the filmmaker. The question is this gesture an act of contrition or a get-right move after being wrong about Harvey Weinstein for nearly 15 years?

"He financed the first 14 years of my career. And now I know while I was profiting, others were in terrible pain. It makes me feel ashamed."

Smith worked with Weinstein for 14 years and had no idea all these horrible rumors had any truth to them? He had no clue at all how Harvey preyed on any woman within reach? I have a two-word response to Smith's protests of innocence. Bitch, please.

If Smith didn't know he's a bigger stoner loser than Silent Bob. If he did know he's a lying-ass enabler. One act born out of sincere good will or crippling guilt does not excuse Kevin Smith being BFF's with Harvey Weinstein and parlaying that relationship into one which was financially lucrative for both of them (Some estimates put Smith's worth at $25 million and Weinstein's at $255 million).

Kurt Sutter, the writer behind Sons of Anarchy and The Shield isn't buying the "I know him not" mealy-mouthed mutterings from Smith and Tarantino and others, and he penned an open letter that throws both of them in the microwave on high without mentioning them by name.

Throw the Fucking Stone


I am a pile of reworked flaws weaved into a semi-functioning man. And my glass
house is always in need of repair. But in good conscience, I cannot help but
throw this stone —


The allegations against Harvey Weinstein are clearly deplorable. No matter how
many great films he’s bullied into production, or his guilt-induced contributions to
left-minded ideals, this kind of intimidation and abuse of power is perverse and
utterly unforgivable. Period.


But what’s equally unnerving to me is the multi-faced, backroom, Hollywood power
machine that has been protecting this kind of behavior for decades and
when dirt bursts through the seams, diligently sweeps it under its antique
Mansour rug.


They will blind us with shiny, off-point objects and deafen us with ego-soothing
rhetoric.


We’ve seen this bad fucking movie so many times —


Act 1: The quick mea culpa, surrounded by grieving family and a well-gifted
rabbi.

Act 2: The corporation protects its assets and publicly purges the shark, letting
folks know that their waters are once again, safe to swim.

Act 3: The predator slips away, licks his wounds, writes a redemption memoir,
and in a year, maybe two, maybe less, he rises like a reformed Phoenix, with a
new company, a new project, and a refined set of stealthier hunting tactics.


And by the time this horror flick hits iTunes, we all fall prey to apathy and are
guilty of ignorance. Allowing the give-it-time machine to —


Dilute our disgust to a vague memory of distaste.


Manipulate our outrage until it all feels a bit over exaggerated.


Cloud us with doubt as to whether the allegations were ever truth or just simply
salacious lore.


Yes, it’s easy for me to sit on my designer couch, in my Bel Air office, and
pontificate about the ills of my profession. I’ve carved out my bloody niche and
clearly don’t give a fuck about pissing people off. So it’s safe for me to spit in the
face of TWC and loath the cowardice cunts whispering in the hallway. And truth
be told, my career has been fueled by the blowback of my bombastic noise.


I openly cop to that. I have no solution. All I have is my noise.


But perhaps if folks cared a little more about their fellows than the status of their
fucking Soho House membership, they’d feel inclined to join the uncomfortable
chorus. And who knows, if we actually listen, perhaps the cacophony might
present a solution.


Or at the very least, we might remember the painful ringing in our fucking ears.


There's calling out and then there's Calling Out. What Sutter dropped on Hollywood along with the mic was the latter. :Thumbs:
 

ElaineA

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The reference to "normal rumors," for instance, implies that he's still inclined to think that those whispers are mostly fake. That people (especially women) make up and share stories of sexual abuse for fun or something.
This is the thing I would LOVE to understand. The deep psychology of it. Because when it comes to rape and sexual abuse, the willingness to not believe seems a pretty fundamental human instinct that has to be thought its way around. From cases with massive evidence like the Catholic Church sex abuse scandals, to individuals getting divorces, and everything in between (hello, down there, Joe Paterno), there's that unwillingness to believe stories of abuse, and a willingness to jump to the defense of the indefensible. I suspect we've all done it at least once in our lives.

Here in supposedly-progressive Seattle, in just the last few months, leaders refused to oust the mayor when four men accused him of abusing them 30+ years ago, because somehow four wasn't believable enough. It wasn't until the FIFTH person came forward that, okay, now he needs to go. Don't we know better by now? Sheesh. :Wha:
 

LittlePinto

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So I take it the massage thing is something he learned in drama classes? Ugh. The drama classes I took in junior and high school had nothing like that. Although we did do it once in choir. Hrm.

I can't speak to where Weinstein picked up the massage idea, but I can say that my college-level drama courses included massage for the same reasons Lupita Nyong'o describes. Of course, we were all fully clothed, consenting adults, and we trusted each other. There was nothing uncomfortable or sexual about it.
 

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And, of course, the news today that O'Reilly paid a $32 MILLION dollar settlement of a sexual harassment claim. And then FOX renewed his contract, in full knowledge of the allegation and settlement. The amount of the settlement is *stunning* in any context, including cases with multiple plaintiffs. The 5 other O'Reilly payouts amounted to $13 million, total.

Of course, O'Reilly and his people are saying it wasn't what it sounds like, but $32 million sounds like something to me. It certainly makes an implication as to the seriousness of the alleged act of assault, regardless of the settlement document language he is now using to exonerate himself. There's a word for "a nonconsensual sexual relationship": it's rape.
 

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And there's this... of course.
Almost a year after New Yorker Jessica Leeds and other women stepped forward with harrowing accounts of being sexually assaulted by a powerful man, another scandal with similar elements exploded.Only this time, the punishment was swift and devastating.
“It is hard to reconcile that Harvey Weinstein could be brought down with this, and [President] Trump just continues to be the Teflon Don,” said Leeds, who claims she was groped 30 years ago on a plane by the man whose presence she cannot escape now that he sits in the Oval Office.
(Washpo)
 
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