Fear of Duplicating Ideas

People who read a lot and watch a lot of movies are ultimately influenced (maybe you can say "polluted") by them. On the other hand, art is a series of builds and revisions working on old themes, as old as Gilgamesh and Aeschylus. Shakespeare was an unapologetic thief of plots. Most other "famous" writers use other writer's or playwright's plots, imagery, even character types. I suppose you could lock yourself up in a cabin in the woods, without any media, but then you would be even more in the dark about the pulse of interests going around.Many cases tell us that a book may take a year or two to write and perfect, and then another year (or two) to shop around. Let's say 4 or 5 years. So even if you did write a book that echoed something of another book, you might be 4-5 years behind that other writer. Look at how many "fantasy" books about teenagers and their pet dragons are shopped around. Those people are not necessarily plagiarizing each other, though some may have been inspired, informed, or owe a debt of gratitude to an earlier book. I like to consider that "Cold Mountain," and "Oh Brother Where Art Thou?" and according to Wikipedia, nine more pages of books and film are based upon "The Oddessy," one of the oldest stories around.

indianroads said:

How many times have we seen the "Starship Troupers " plot line replayed? And yet they a staple of the SciFi genre.

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So many 'Starship Tropers?"

Hi Mel, wanted to jump in here since I was sort of in your shoes, a journalist with a career in nonfiction taking that jump to fiction. I've had a couple short stories published, so that's cool, but my life dream hangs on novels. Yes -- the same pressure you're putting on yourself! Some of the stuff you've written here has passed through my mind more than once, believe me.

I'm not sure where or how you hope to be published, but you might want to try the traditional publishing route if you want your book/skills tested by gatekeepers. It takes longer, it's sometimes heartbreaking and frustrating and I think I have grey hairs from it. But for me -- with a career working with editors at publications -- I'm a lot more comfortable working with an industry professional than with going it alone. I got my first book as good as I could get it with betas and all that, and then subbed it to agents. I can't describe how physically sick I felt doing that. After literally a thousand (more?) articles in print over the years, I was petrified nobody would like my fiction. It's a different skill. We have to *unlearn* some nonfiction habits to write good fiction.

What happened? Lots of interest and requests for fulls, and an offer of rep within 2 months of starting submissions. I still had to edit the living heck out of the book under my agent's guidance, but she loves the story and my writing. That validation is important to me since I'm so used to working with editors.

If you need validation like that, don't be afraid to admit it to yourself and plan accordingly. Write, learn, improve your skills, polish the book as well as you can, and then take that leap. Get it out there. It's worth it.

As for duplicate ideas, the others have it right. There are lots of them out there, so don't worry about it. Do *your* thing, do it right, do it better if you can.

I fully understand your fear of "failure" as a writer of fiction, but the answer lies in what you want what you have written to do for you.

You may set your sole aim as acquiring an agent and being published by a Trade publisher. I can't help with that, as it's an avenue I've purposely decided against pursuing.

You may want, simply, to see if anyone likes/appreciates your novel, rather than "do the established 'professionals' want to take me on?" In that case, you may decide to go down the self-publishing route. Doing so means that your main aim is to get people to read your work, rather than be accepted by the 'publishing establishment'. That's the route I've chosen, but it comes with a number of caveats - primarily, that your book will be one among thousands and you need to find ways of persuading people to read/buy it. You have to become your own 'marketeer'. You could give it away, of course, but, in my limited experience, a great many 'giveaway' publications are simply books that no-one will buy anyway - for whatever reason.
I would suggest you try to put away, or control your angst. Decide what you want your novel to achieve and go for it. It's the only way you'll ever know.
I wish you every success - however you decide to define it.

I've little to say that has not already been said, but I would like to echo what has.

My expectations on what this thread was going to be about when I clicked it, was us as writers plagiarising ourselves. I recently realised the ending of one of my shorts was uncannily (Read: stupidly) similar thematically to another short I'd written.

It's a cliché but I'm fond of the old; 'It's a long walk back to Eden, so don't sweat the small stuff.'

Whatever happens, best of luck.

pH

To me its like music. There are no original ideas in music, its all been done(love,abuse,murder,sickness,anger,hope,despair) literally all the emotions us humans feel have been covered by musicians there's nothing new out there, however its HOW they sing about it, how they string it all together that is unique. The greats have a distinct sound, you know immediately without a note being sung what artist/band it is. To me that is how great authors are, they have a way of writing a story we've read a million times. How many love songs can there possibly be? Every year there's a new one and for me it never gets old, I love a good love song. How many horror novels can there be? For some who love horror there can never be too many.

So...I say don't worry if your "idea" is original, its not. It's the spin you put on it, how you tell the story that is original.

I've never read books by two different authors which appeared so identical it wasn't worth reading both. People have their own individual style and write from the perspective of different life experiences. If people are paying you for your writing before you have even published a book you must be doing something right and there will undoubtedly be someone out there wanting to read your book.

People have been telling stories since we became people. Gilgamesh was... what? around 2800 BC? Before that, I imagine there were tales of the hunt - with paintings on cave walls being the "special effects" of the day. So, pretty much every story possible has been told.

You can use an old frame work (or a combination of them) and re-tell it in a new environment with new and engaging characters - and that would be worth reading. There's also voice, which is unique to you.

Duplicating ideas is called a "trend"

Most works borrow from others, and then expand upon it.

Hell, Star Wars has a lot of things ripped from the Valarian Sci-Fi comics. In the early 2000s, the comic writer came out and said he was so happy to see Star Wars borrowing from him. Even the popular Hunger Games took sooooooo much from Battle Royale, but expanded upon it.

Just be original the best you can, and publish

And there are some readers who are specifically looking for more of the same. My dad liked historical naval novels. 'Hornblower' etc. And various imitators. I read a couple, got the gist, and could see how the plots worked: same story, different ocean, more or less. O'Brian's 'Aubrey and Maturin' books were just what he was looking for, and, fortunately, lasted 'til the end of his life.
If something is popular, it usually means there's a market for it. (Until it overextends itself, ie vampires. Then the cycle starts over.)

CaliforniaMelanie said:

Anyway...I have always stopped short of continuing a book because of this fear.

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That's the best way to get beaten to market by the same idea.

Jeff

Antipode91 said:

Even the popular Hunger Games took sooooooo much from Battle Royale, but expanded upon it.

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FWIW, if you believe Suzanne Collins (and, personally, I do), she actually wasn't aware of Battle Royale while writing the first in her trilogy.

From an interview in the NYT.

When I asked Collins if she had drawn from “Battle Royale,” she was unperturbed. “I had never heard of that book or that author until my book was turned in. At that point, it was mentioned to me, and I asked my editor if I should read it. He said: ‘No, I don’t want that world in your head. Just continue with what you’re doing.’ ” She has yet to read the book or to see the movie.
There are enough possible sources for the plot line that the two authors might well have hit on the same basic setup independently (outrageous reality-television shows arrived in Japan before they did in the United States). As her primary influence, Collins, who has a love of classical plays, frequently cites the Greek myth of Theseus and the Minotaur, in which the people of Athens are required by their Cretan adversaries to offer up seven boys and seven girls for sacrifice to the deadly Minotaur, a half-human monster who lives in a maze. “I was also heavily influenced by the historical figure Spartacus,” she said. “Katniss follows the same arc from slave to gladiator to rebel to face of a war.”

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Let's say halfway through her first book, though, she'd described the story to someone and they'd said, "Oh, like Battle Royale?" In other words, if she'd found herself in the same position of the OP.

How sad would it be if she'd let that stop her from finishing the story?

When I worry about whether my work is "original," I just remind myself that there are currently 7 billion people in the world. Of COURSE someone, somewhere, has had a similar idea. So what?

If you pursue "originality" with the goal of coming up with an idea that nobody's ever examined before... you're pretty much doomed to failure.

If you pursue "originality" with the goal of creating a story out of your own mind, a story with an "origin" of you*... you're guaranteed to succeed. You just have to trust yourself to tell a good story, and ignore the rest.

*Indeed, this advice is not original to me. I first learned this lesson from "The Books of Wonder," a beautifully-written part-practical/part-theoretical work on performance magic by Tommy Wonder. (And it's not original to him, either).

...

My WIP is pretty large and sprawling, it's almost impossible there won't be overlaps. When I find out that someone preemptively stole my idea, I just shake my fist and curse them, then try to do it better than they did.

Thomas Vail said:

So many 'Starship Tropers?"

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FYI... Pun hell is a real place and you are definitely condemned, now. ;-)

The thing is, your novel will be original because you will be writing it. Unless you find a doppleganger who has taken up writing, it will be original. Other writers haven't lived an identical life to you, they don't have the same cultural references as you, they don't have the same personality as you. You are what makes your story original- just like with non-fiction.

If no one else has done it before, there's normally a reason for that. I could make a teapot made out of ice to brew my tea in- nobody else has made one but that doesn't mean my idea is good. In fact, it's an awful idea.