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Thread: US Tax reform - tax cuts for the rich. The middle class, not so much.

  1. #26
    practical experience, FTW
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    It will be spun as the opposition's interference. "It would have worked too if it hadn't been for those darn liberals."

    We need more official parties so it's a more exciting finger pointing.
    "You see a mousetrap, I see free cheese and a challenge."
    -The Scroobius Pip

  2. #27
    Travelling around the sun cbenoi1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justobuddies View Post
    "It would have worked too if it hadn't been for those darn liberals."
    "It should have been a bi-partisan process, but the Democrats would have none of it."

    -cb

  3. #28
    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbenoi1 View Post
    "It should have been a bi-partisan process, but the Democrats would have none of it."

    -cb
    That really is a fallacy you know. Or did the quotes indicate sarcasm?

  4. #29
    Travelling around the sun cbenoi1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaeZe View Post
    That really is a fallacy you know. Or did the quotes indicate sarcasm?
    Actual quote from an Rep (R) invited on CNN (forgot name).

    -cb

  5. #30
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    Sounds like Orrin Hatch.
    "You see a mousetrap, I see free cheese and a challenge."
    -The Scroobius Pip

  6. #31
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbenoi1 View Post
    You think voters have that large a memory span?

    -cb
    No, that's why get out the vote effort needs to run for 11 months. That takes us until November, 2018.


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  7. #32
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    Something major must happen for November to matter. The way the districts have been gerrymandered to increase the voting power of the willfully ignorant will prevent any big power shifts, but that power needs to shift to something capable of drawing fair voting districts by 2020 or the U.S. of A. is F.U. to K'd.
    "You see a mousetrap, I see free cheese and a challenge."
    -The Scroobius Pip

  8. #33
    There's a stick up there Kjbartolotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justobuddies View Post
    Something major must happen for November to matter. The way the districts have been gerrymandered to increase the voting power of the willfully ignorant will prevent any big power shifts, but that power needs to shift to something capable of drawing fair voting districts by 2020 or the U.S. of A. is F.U. to K'd.
    I feel you, but gerrymanders tend to collapse catastrophically with high enough voter turnout.

  9. #34
    Life is good Gregg's Avatar
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    Gerrymandering has no effect on US Senate and Presidential elections.
    but-
    How about a system where we count people and create districts that are as square or rectangular as possible with nearly equal populations. A computer program can do it.
    "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite."
    James Madison, The Federalist No. 45


    "Beware the greedy hand of government, thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry."
    Thomas Paine


  10. #35
    Things Will Change Victor Douglas's Avatar
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    My strong suspicion is that the Republicans are hoping the tax cuts will give the economy enough of a temporary boost that it helps them survive the 2018 midterms. Even if they are right, it just sets them up for the entire house of cards to come collapsing down on them in 2020. Trump promised jobs after he was elected. If he can't deliver, it won't matter how they spin it. If the Democrats can get their act together, it's not out of the question for them to make a clean sweep, both houses and the WH.

  11. #36
    There's a stick up there Kjbartolotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    How about a system where we count people and create districts that are as square or rectangular as possible with nearly equal populations. A computer program can do it.
    Stephen Wolf over at DailyKos makes some good arguments against compactness and neat, square-shaped districts as a model. Link. Judge for yourself if you agree.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    Gerrymandering has no effect on US Senate and Presidential elections.
    Au contraire, mon frère. For Senatorial elections, no. But for Presidential elections, the manner in which Congressional districts are drawn has a hell of a big effect on the Electoral College, as we have learned twice now in the past five Presidential elections.

    caw
    Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.

    -- Terry Pratchett

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Douglas View Post
    My strong suspicion is that the Republicans are hoping the tax cuts will give the economy enough of a temporary boost that it helps them survive the 2018 midterms..
    That's what they are hoping for, sure. But, at this date, that tax bill has about a 25% approval rating, last figures I saw. And it is the classic ploy of the Grover Norquist-thinking GOP establishment, fiddle with the Federal Income Tax brackets, with one hand and take away all manner of other economic things that benefit middle- and lower-income people with the other.

    But even with that, I saw an article just today that cited important Republican strategists saying that the biggest problem the GOP has is the behavior of the POTUS, and the drag that is having on the overall approval rating of the party as a whole. It's pretty dire, and the smart folks in the Party background recognize this. I can't cite the article, because I don't recall which of the fake news sources it came from, BBC or NBC or ABC or CNN, you know, those people who just make up shit, in contrast to the National Enquirer Extruder. I didn't go to the grocery story today, so I don't know what the truth is.

    caw
    Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.

    -- Terry Pratchett

  14. #39
    practical experience, FTW Davy The First's Avatar
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    In case you are confused as to why Trump would go after welfare (as he has not an ideological bone in his body) the word 'donor' is the key.
    In Trump's mind, any monies donated as his, for keeps. And, I would hope some journalists are looking at the campaign accounts for 2016 in fine tooth detail, as well as the 2020 fund.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1ET1AG

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