Hugh Hefner Has Died

BoF

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Controversial figure Hugh Hefner has passed. In my opinion Playboy exploited and made objects of women. It was only mildly pornographic, if that, and certainly met no moral or legal definition of obscenity. On the positive side Hefner published interviews of minority voices, like Malcolm X, who deserved to be heard. The last issue of Playboy I bought contained an interview of another controversial person - John Lennon. Lennon was senselessly gunned down within days of the interview's publication.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/obituaries/hugh-hefner-dead.html
 

ElaineA

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I've read a lot of takes on Hefner the last 24 hours, notably this one, where the editorialist explains why she called Hefner a pimp. I can't disagree with her.

But it's undeniable Playboy magazine occupies a substantial chunk of the modern pop cultural landscape. One of those cases where something relatively positive comes from a person who is, on the whole, pretty abhorrent. Not the first figure like that in human history.
 

Celia Cyanide

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I had a subscription to Playboy a few years ago, before they said that they would stop featuring naked ladies. I was familiar with the quality of their journalism, but I was blown away by the quality of the photographs. In spite of Hef's preference for blue eyes blondes, the magazine actually showed a lot of diversity. He may have been a bit of a creep, but I have respect for the magazine and its legacy.
 

regdog

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I loathe a man who had a 10 year old Brooke Shields and 11 year old Eva Ionesco pose nude in his magazine.
 

Layla Nahar

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^I've got nothing against him, personally - just - that was my reaction
 

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I've read a lot of takes on Hefner the last 24 hours, notably this one, where the editorialist explains why she called Hefner a pimp. I can't disagree with her.

I can disagree with her. Based on the information in her article he wasn't a pimp, he was a whoremaster.
 

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And while I don't deny his legacy in the realm of freedom of the press, I do think it's creepy that people think it's "romantic" he's being buried next to Marilyn Monroe, whose permission he did not seek to print her nudes nor to purchase the plot next to in the cemetery.
 

cornflake

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And while I don't deny his legacy in the realm of freedom of the press, I do think it's creepy that people think it's "romantic" he's being buried next to Marilyn Monroe, whose permission he did not seek to print her nudes nor to purchase the plot next to in the cemetery.

Ok, c'mon.

He bought the photo she willingly posed for, for a photographer, to use in the magazine. You're kind of making it sound like he took secret pics of her and published them without her knowledge. I mean she didn't know he was going to print them, no, but it was the first issue of a magazine that bought legitimately taken pro nudes. She wasn't scammed.

Also.. how could he have asked her permission to buy the plot? DiMaggio bought them.
 

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Playboy and Hefner are a study in strange paradoxes. On the one hand, they were harbingers of the sexual revolution, both a symptom of and a contributor to the greater sexual permissiveness that emerged in the later 20th century. This was good for women in many ways (and ultimately for LGBTQA people as well), as it opened people's minds about what constituted normal and healthy sexuality and set the stage for challenges to the double standard.

Changes in social mores also encouraged the development of more reliable and convenient contraception and influenced the availability of abortion, changed attitudes about premarital sex, about unwed motherhood (how often does the child of a single mother get called a nameless bastard anymore), and about divorce, and about living together before marriage--all of which have frankly revolutionized the lives of women in western (and many other) countries. Even women who hold to more conservative sexual values have a choice (at least for now), and people are less likely to be pariahs because of their sexual choices involving consenting adults and that don't actually harm anyone. It's far from perfect yet, but we've come a long way.

However, much of this sexual "freedom" is definitely centered on "freeing" women to be sex objects and sexual "playmates" in order to cater to the fantasies and fetishes of men. Playboy (and other magazines in that vein) definitely didn't help with this at all, and likely made it worse. Many men still believe that women only have the "right" to be sexual beings so long as it's on terms and under conditions that men are comfortable with. And the idea that women have not just a right, but an obligation, to be sexy, available, and pleasing to men at all times by meeting a very narrow set of beauty and behavioral standards is very harmful to the health and well being of women and girls.
 
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cornflake

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Playboy and Hefner are a study in strange paradoxes. On the one hand, they were harbingers of the sexual revolution, both a symptom of and a contributor to the greater sexual permissiveness that emerged in the later 20th century. This was good for women in many ways (and ultimately for LGBTQA people as well), as it opened people's minds about what constituted normal and healthy sexuality and set the stage for challenges to the double standard.

Changes in social mores also encouraged the development of more reliable and convenient contraception and influenced the availability of abortion, changed attitudes about premarital sex, about unwed motherhood (how often does the child of a single mother get called a nameless bastard anymore), and about divorce, and about living together before marriage--all of which have frankly revolutionized the lives of women in western (and many other) countries. Even women who hold to more conservative sexual values have a choice (at least for now), and people are less likely to be pariahs because of their sexual choices involving consenting adults and that don't actually harm anyone. It's far from perfect yet, but we've come a long way.

However, much of this sexual "freedom" is definitely centered on "freeing" women to be sex objects and sexual "playmates" in order to cater to the fantasies and fetishes of men. Playboy (and other magazines in that vein) definitely didn't help with this at all, and likely made it worse. Many men still believe that women only have the "right" to be sexual beings so long as it's on terms and under conditions that men are comfortable with. And the idea that women have not just a right, but an obligation, to be sexy, available, and pleasing to men at all times by meeting a very narrow set of beauty and behavioral standards is very harmful to the health and well being of women and girls.

This.
 
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Roxxsmom

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I never really understood why Brooke Shields's mom let those photos get taken.

It's hard to fathom, but I'm guessing she thought it would make her wealthy, and perhaps she was living gratuitously through her child and had a very poor sense of personal boundaries in either direction. It's even harder to fathom how an "alluring" set of pictures, clearly meant to eroticize a girl who is well under the age of consent, would even be legal. These were not cute, innocent pictures of a small child naked in a bathtub or paddle pool.

It's completely disgusting. I shed no tears with Terry Shields (I think that was her name) passed away a few years ago, and I'm certainly shedding no tears for Hugh Hefner.
 
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regdog

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I never really understood why Brooke Shields's mom let those photos get taken.

Eva Ionesco's mother Irina used to take "erotic" photographs of her child. There is nothing erotic about having children pose nude as these women did. It is sexual abuse, and exploitation. Terry Shields, Irina Ionesco and Hugh Hefner were child pornographers and abusers. End of story.
 

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And while I don't deny his legacy in the realm of freedom of the press, I do think it's creepy that people think it's "romantic" he's being buried next to Marilyn Monroe, whose permission he did not seek to print her nudes nor to purchase the plot next to in the cemetery.

Ok, c'mon.

He bought the photo she willingly posed for, for a photographer, to use in the magazine. You're kind of making it sound like he took secret pics of her and published them without her knowledge. I mean she didn't know he was going to print them, no, but it was the first issue of a magazine that bought legitimately taken pro nudes. She wasn't scammed.

Also.. how could he have asked her permission to buy the plot? DiMaggio bought them.

I'm only repeating something from a source I trust. If I'm misquoting or otherwise wrong, I'm wrong.

exeunt
 

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I'm only repeating something from a source I trust. If I'm misquoting or otherwise wrong, I'm wrong.

exeunt

Neither is wrong, exactly, but it sounds like he did things that were wrong, when I don't think that'd be a general interpretation, or a really logical one at all.

He didn't inform her he was publishing the pics, but neither would anyone else who bought them from the photographer, be it for use in a pin-up calendar, a girlie mag, or whatever else. She posed for a photographer, in a nude shoot, signed a release, got paid. The pics get sold, that's how it works. Knowing you're going to be in Playboy is only a thing once Playboy is a thing. People do this today, do photo shoots and sign releases and the pics are used for stock that ends up lots of places. No one calls the models to tell them their pics are being used in a magazine story about tired office workers.

As for the plot, I mean... she was dead? Don't know how he was supposed to consult her on that one. He didn't, presumably, but blaming him for it seems weird.
 

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Besides, being buried next to Marilyn Monroe sounds like a coup, until you realize that people will stand on his grave to get a better look at hers.
 

cornflake

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Besides, being buried next to Marilyn Monroe sounds like a coup, until you realize that people will stand on his grave to get a better look at hers.

They're in a wall - it's just plaques outside receptacles for urns inside a large wall in a mausoleum area of the cemetary.
 

mccardey

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They're in a wall - it's just plaques outside receptacles for urns inside a large wall in a mausoleum area of the cemetary.
You just killed a great mental image, and for what?


*tsk*
 

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I think Hefner gets oversold as a leader in the sexual revolution. As Roxxsmom said, he is more of a symptom. Other pornographers went out of their way to be stronger contributor to the sexual revolution (like Larry Flynt). Hefner had an image to build up selling his magazines. And he did so in the image of a whoremaster and a libertine moreso than a pornographer. And for that he was always more of a punchline than he was speaking for anything.
 

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Regardless of the level of pornography.....it's pornography....and, really, no one really wants to talk about that and what kind of industry it is and the effect....it has on everyone....and I'm not just talking sexually, though that is part of the problem. The whole "blind thing" was not about physically not being able to see....
 

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I wonder if there is any truth....

to the story that he was in process of making a deal to turn over information regarding pedophilia to keep himself from going to jail?