I have a small problem with them. I know where they go for the most part, but sometimes I overuse them. I try to read the sentence out loud to know where it fits and it works, but I still think it's right even if it isn't. I tried studying the usage of it a lot and it didn't help me because I use the "read it out loud" method and it's driving me crazy. Any tips on how I can fix it?
Comma
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Your posts are perfectly readable.
If you've studied comma usage, there's not much I can add. Don't know if English is your first language, but grammar and punctuation can be tricky if it's not. I, too, sometimes scratch my head over punctuation.
I don't think it's something you should be unduly worried about.
Reading out loud is all well and good but you know in advance what you mean by what you have written so the commas could be meaningless.
Reading aloud won't help if the sentence is incorrectly punctuated in the first place, because the prime purpose of punctuation is to aid comprehension of the written word.
A misplaced or omitted comma can completely change the meaning of a sentence- as in that old nutmeg - "Let's eat Grandma." compared to "Let's eat, Grandma."
Have you tried googling - grammar girl commas? Or Purdue as below.
If you've studied comma usage, there's not much I can add. Don't know if English is your first language, but grammar and punctuation can be tricky if it's not. I, too, sometimes scratch my head over punctuation.
I don't think it's something you should be unduly worried about.
Reading out loud is all well and good but you know in advance what you mean by what you have written so the commas could be meaningless.
Reading aloud won't help if the sentence is incorrectly punctuated in the first place, because the prime purpose of punctuation is to aid comprehension of the written word.
A misplaced or omitted comma can completely change the meaning of a sentence- as in that old nutmeg - "Let's eat Grandma." compared to "Let's eat, Grandma."
Have you tried googling - grammar girl commas? Or Purdue as below.
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Since it's not working, I'd suggest you stop using the "read out loud" method and go back to studying proper usage. Start with Purdue OWL--it's a great resource.
Adding: if you mean you read out loud to listen for pauses where a comma should be, that's not the best method. Sometimes we don't pause much after a necessary comma, and other times another punctuation mark is called for instead.
Adding: if you mean you read out loud to listen for pauses where a comma should be, that's not the best method. Sometimes we don't pause much after a necessary comma, and other times another punctuation mark is called for instead.
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A lot of people seem to get hung up on the minutiae of grammar and punctuation - especially commas. I'd advise you not to be overly concerned and to remember that "correct" usage is no more than a set of accepted conventions. There are very few set "rules". The aim of punctuation is simply to make the writer's meaning as clear as possible in the mind of the reader. Whatever does that, be it a comma, a semi-colon, a dash or anything else is the device to use.
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Stop trying to figure out where commas go by reading out loud and guessing? I mean there are rules for a reason, and the whole 'put a comma where you hear/make a pause,' is not actually one of them.
I empathize. I overuse the comma like I’m amassing an army of them and when I have enough comma soldiers I’m gonna take over the world and turn everyone into comma zombies. 
It's true comma placement is a set of accepted conventions, but incorrect about ignoring the "set" rules. The five rules of comma placement can free writers from the haphazard guessing game further confused by "reading out loud."
Excellent advice.
Wise, indeed.
How do you know it isn't right if you "still think it's right"?? If you know it's wrong because it contradicts a rule, then it's wrong, even if it "feels right". On the other hand, there are (relatively) popular writers out there who write in sentence that will outrage SYW here
For them it "feels right" to write those sentences and they've turned that "wrongness" into a quirky style. If, of course, you want to learn proper comma usage, then you can practice more and maybe the rules will "sink in" and become a habit. Read a rule and try to write a few sentence putting that rule to practice. There is no pill to learn commas, yet ...
True. It's not hard to memorize five rules or post them near your computer.
"Feels right" probably translates to "sounds okay." The problem there is commas are not for speaking lines. They're part of sentence structure to ease reading.
Knowing comma rules helps writers make their sentences more readable for their audiences.
I always thought that commas signified "breaths" or pauses. They do not. There are only a handful of reasons to use a comma. You can find them on grammar pages. I really think that writers should know grammar (the names of parts of sentences) so that you are sure what independent/dependent clauses and appositives are.
You use them with coordinating conjunctions: (and, or, for, nor, but, so, yet)
You use them with dependent clauses that start sentences: Even though she smiled, she was angry. (There is a long list of words that signify dependent clauses).
you use them with introductory adjectives: Finally, the criminal was sent to prison.
you use them when separating 2 adjectives: The short, narrow vent was hard to squeeze through. (takes place of the word "and")
you use them with appositives: My sister, a doctor, attended to a man who had fallen down.
you use them with series: Apples, oranges, and kumquats are common fruit.
you use them after the word "therefore": All of the maidens are standing in a row; therefore, the dance shall commence. (therefore is a bit special as far as punctuation)
you use them to offset negation: Yes, we have no bananas.
you use them when attributing quotes: "I love peanut butter," said John."
you use them in addresses, in freestanding yes and no, when addressing a person in a sentence, and in dates and numbers: "Katy, bar the door." 5,789. Dear Jane,
You use them with coordinating conjunctions: (and, or, for, nor, but, so, yet)
You use them with dependent clauses that start sentences: Even though she smiled, she was angry. (There is a long list of words that signify dependent clauses).
you use them with introductory adjectives: Finally, the criminal was sent to prison.
you use them when separating 2 adjectives: The short, narrow vent was hard to squeeze through. (takes place of the word "and")
you use them with appositives: My sister, a doctor, attended to a man who had fallen down.
you use them with series: Apples, oranges, and kumquats are common fruit.
you use them after the word "therefore": All of the maidens are standing in a row; therefore, the dance shall commence. (therefore is a bit special as far as punctuation)
you use them to offset negation: Yes, we have no bananas.
you use them when attributing quotes: "I love peanut butter," said John."
you use them in addresses, in freestanding yes and no, when addressing a person in a sentence, and in dates and numbers: "Katy, bar the door." 5,789. Dear Jane,
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Excellent list, Kalyke.
You're right. Commas do not signify "breaths" or pauses. They signify sentence-level structure to ease reading.
You're also right about exactly a handful of reasons. Here's another list of the five with examples:
For U.S. publications, five rules explain necessary commas. A few other commas are optional, but the majority are superfluous—excessive, pointless, unnecessary, and confusing to careful readers.
Comma Rule Number 1: A comma is necessary to separate a compound structure, two or more main clauses joined by one of the seven coordinating conjunctions: and, or, nor, but, for, yet, so.
The woman drank black coffee, and she ate a croissant.
You can conduct yourself in a pleasant manner, or you can be horrible.
Evan loves Suzanne, but he cannot forget Elena.
If a writer chooses to make those constructions into simple sentences, then the comma is not used:
The woman drank black coffee and ate a croissant.
You can conduct yourself in a pleasant manner or be horrible.
Evan loves Suzanne but cannot forget Elena.
Comma Rule Number 2: A comma is necessary to separate a long introductory element before a main clause. Rule 2 holds true for both simple and complex constructions:
Even though ignorant of our culture, we must always be kind to strangers. (Simple)
Since Constance is new to our company, all of us should strive to help her. (Complex)
It’s always correct to set off any introductory element with a comma, but a more modern lean toward fewer commas in novels has made the practice optional for shorter elements. Either is acceptable:
Later, you can join us for dessert.
Later you can join us for dessert.
Comma Rule Number 3: Commas separate items in a series:
James found blondes attractive, redheads adorable, and brunettes irresistible.
The final comma before the conjunction is always correct. However, the journalistic practice to omit the serial (or Oxford) comma is every author’s option:
James found blondes attractive, redheads adorable and brunettes irresistible.
Also correct is an occasional asyndeton, the intentional omission of the normally occurring conjunction (and, or, but, for, nor, so, yet) in a series of words, phrases, or clauses:
James found blondes attractive, redheads adorable, brunettes irresistible.
Comma Rule Number 4: Interjections and forms of address are set off with commas.
Yes, I will accompany you to the ball.
No, I won’t!
You, sir, are out of line.
You may be assured, ma’am, of our concern.
Are you certain of that prognosis, Doctor?
Thank you, Mother, for all you do.
The old instructive saw teaches there’s a world of difference between “Let’s eat, Grandpa” and “Let’s eat Grandpa.”
Comma Rule Number 5: Words, phrases, or clauses (appositives and infinitives included) which interrupt the main clause must be set off with commas fore and aft. The rule includes the state following the name of a city and the year following the day of the month.
Mrs. Ellen Bennet, my mother, is in the drawing room.
The Brooklyn Bridge, as opposed to this matchstick construction, is sturdy and reliable.
He was born on June 23, 1941, Big Timber, Montana, along the Yellowstone River.
Those earrings, in my opinion, would look better hanging over formal dining tables.
5A. The final necessary use of the comma is the most difficult for many writers. It’s actually the same as rule 5, but it’s often presented in isolation because of its difficulty. As with appositives and infinitive phrases, it separates nonrestrictive clauses in a sentence. The nonrestrictive clause is not essential to the sentence. It merely adds information:
Abraham Lincoln, who was the tallest of U.S. presidents, was an imposing figure of a man.
The grizzly, a bear misunderstood by tourists, is named Ursus horribilis for good reason.
By contrast, a restrictive clause is essential to the sentence:
The lady who cried is my mother.
The man who shot Liberty Valance became a state senator.
This is fantastic, Chase. I'm saving this to share with all my non-comma-compliant friends and relatives.
Perhaps a Rule 6 could be added? When to use a comma between modifying adjectives and when not to. For instance:
Coordinate adjectives (adjectives that each separately modify the noun): the bright, blank face of the moon; the dull, ragged silk of the draperies
Non-coordinate adjectives (is there another term for these? This is where the first adjective modifies the second adjective): bright red hair; pale gold silk
Great posts given here! Nice!
My only addition is, if you really like want to learn grammar (and make it stick), that you read grammar books. There are many out there and they might make it stick more often that not-- or at least this is what I've found.
Just my two cents!
My only addition is, if you really like want to learn grammar (and make it stick), that you read grammar books. There are many out there and they might make it stick more often that not-- or at least this is what I've found.
Just my two cents!
I like your Rule 6. I call them coordinate adjectives versus cumulative adjectives, but the effect is the same. I cite it a lot when editing.
I say use commas for clarity first, pacing second. There was once a test on MSN's website where they asked you to place commas where they needed to go. Knowing the subjectivity of comma usage, I was not surprised to see one editor fail to find all of the "missing" ones. I think one has to also keep in mind their audience: gramar nazi or regular joe. Too many commas begins to look ridiculous, and sometimes it's just better to write multiple sentences . . . or use the much aligned semi colon.
Sure. Commas act like a pause too, yes? But often, the pause is implied and not outright written. I think there are many times when commas can act as speedways and yet also as speed bumps.
The comma wasn't needed there, but if separates the contrasting aspects I proposed in that sentence. In fiction, if one were to have a string of sentences like this that no period nor semi colon could fix, then commas would likely come to the rescue (if not a re-write of said sentences). I dunno. Maybe that wasn't a good answer.
Still doesn't indicate a pause of any sort to me in the example shown.
Commas aid comprehension of the sentences/phrases in which they are placed. Readers can never assume a comma means a pause.
Even when reading a novel aloud, comma use still does not indicate a pause, although the speaker - because proper comma use helps him to understand the meaning of the total sentence - may choose to pause in order to aid the comprehension by HIS audience of HIS interpretation of what he is reading aloud.
Commas aid comprehension of the sentences/phrases in which they are placed. Readers can never assume a comma means a pause.
Even when reading a novel aloud, comma use still does not indicate a pause, although the speaker - because proper comma use helps him to understand the meaning of the total sentence - may choose to pause in order to aid the comprehension by HIS audience of HIS interpretation of what he is reading aloud.
Sure. Commas act like a pause too, yes? But often, the pause is implied and not outright written. I think there are many times when commas can act as speedways and yet also as speed bumps.
The comma wasn't needed there, but if separates the contrasting aspects I proposed in that sentence. In fiction, if one were to have a string of sentences like this that no period nor semi colon could fix, then commas would likely come to the rescue (if not a re-write of said sentences). I dunno. Maybe that wasn't a good answer.
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I think you and I are having troubles communicating with one another. I think agree to disagree here is appropriate. You seem to know your stuff, and I am just a newb and an amateur writer. So, I defer to you.
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Sure. Commas act like a pause too, yes? But often, the pause is implied and not outright written. I think there are many times when commas can act as speedways and yet also as speed bumps.
The comma wasn't needed there, but if separates the contrasting aspects I proposed in that sentence. In fiction, if one were to have a string of sentences like this that no period nor semi colon could fix, then commas would likely come to the rescue (if not a re-write of said sentences). I dunno. Maybe that wasn't a good answer.
The comma is needed there. Commas don't indicate pauses, and they shouldn't be placed to indicate pauses. Punctuation has rules.
I will agree with you, but what comma are you referring to? The one in my example, or an earlier one?
I'm an amateur, too, and I'm not having any trouble communicating at all. And if you defer to someone's knowledge, 'agree to disagree' is not appropriate.
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