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Thread: Green Ivy Publishers, Inc. (Robert Gray)

  1. #1

    Green Ivy Publishers, Inc. (Robert Gray)

    This appeared on the local news:
    Tonia Bell signed a contract with Green Ivy publishers in 2015. In her contract she had to pay the the company $3,500, to edit and make front and back covers for the book.

    Tonia, paid off the amount in April this year, after that she never heard from them again.
    "It was like they disappeared off the face of the earth," said Bell.

    http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayn...?autoplay=true

    Another day, another vanity press. Judging by these complaints, this one doesn't even deliver a book.

    ETA: They appear to be out of business--their website is gone: http://www.greenivybooks.com/

    Their last social media updates were in March:
    https://twitter.com/Green_Ivy_Books
    https://www.facebook.com/greenivybooks/


    Update: Thomson-Shore, a book printing company, agreed to print her book at no cost to her: http://www.wxyz.com/news/michigan-pr...er-takes-money
    Last edited by Bubastes; 09-22-2017 at 08:37 PM. Reason: update

  2. #2
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    I feel sad for the authors. A little research could have saved them money, time, and stress. If someone spends two years writing a book, you'd think they'd spend a little time researching publishers.

    Added: Oh, my. Looks like Jay Caliendo is no stranger to other scams.
    http://www.medicalintuitive.com

    Some more names attached to Green Ivy: https://www.scamguard.com/green-ivy-publishing/
    Last edited by Filigree; 09-21-2017 at 11:37 PM.

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  3. #3
    Christine Tripp ctripp's Avatar
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    This post is very timely. In my linkedIn group a writer had, a few weeks ago, posted a complaint about their publisher (not naming the press) wanting to know how to get her rights back so she could self publish... the Publisher wasn't answering emails, no statements/royalties, etc) I did some looking around and found out her pub's name and yes, it was Green Ivy. Their Facebook is littered with complaints from their "clients" (the Authors) and it became obvious the business is gone, or they would be deleting all of these angry writers posts/comments. The BBB states the business appears to be closed, mail returned marked undeliverable. No website, domain expired. He's obviously out of there and I'm sure planning his next "business" venture

  4. #4
    Wilde about Oscar aliceshortcake's Avatar
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    This is a real can of worms - it appears that man behind Green Ivy is patent attorney Robert Gray of the Gray Law Group Ltd. I think this might be a case for Victoria Strauss and Writer Beware.

  5. #5
    Grumpy writer and editor Absolute Sage Gillhoughly's Avatar
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    There is quite a list of complaints against them here: https://www.scamguard.com/green-ivy-publishing/

    It is so blatant, and if this dope is an attorney, the AG office in his state should find this scam of interest.

  6. #6
    If this is the same Gray Law Group and Robert Gray, it's not his first time scamming people.

    On February 26, 2014, despite abundant, easily accessible online evidence that glitter paint was "not novel, non-obvious, or otherwise unavailable to the public," U.S. Patent Commission recommended that Henderson file a provisional patent application, stating that it "[could] not emphasize enough the importance of filing for protection sooner rather than later." Doc. 1 at ∂∂ 30, 31 & n.2. On March 4, 2014, Caryn Rohde, a U.S. Patent Commission project manager, sent an email to Henderson with the "Step 2 Agreement," under which U.S. Patent Commission would "creat[e] 2D and 3D drawings of the invention, provid[e] [Henderson] with a list of manufacturers, and fil[e] a provisional patent application with the United States Patent and Trademark Office (`USPTO')." Id. at ∂∂ 32-33. Henderson agreed to pay $2,600.00 for the services set forth in the Step 2 Agreement. Id. at ∂ 32. The Step 2 Agreement contains an arbitration clause identical to the one in the Step 1 Agreement. Doc. 33-3 at 4.


    As part of its Step 2 services, U.S. Patent Commission customarily retains Gray Law Group to file provisional patent applications with the USPTO.
    https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20151103648

    "U.S. Patent Commission" is a scam invention marketing company and the name appears to be a blatant attempt to mislead inventors into believing they're working with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. I mean, check out this cheesy logo.

    So this dope has been sued before, but he seems to know how to get away unscathed.

    Note: Robert Gray does not appear to be registered with the USPTO (you need to take an additional bar exam to be registered), so he's not allowed to market himself as a patent attorney. However, for naive inventors with a dream, they wouldn't necessarily know to check that. Invention marketing companies are the techie equivalent of vanity publishers, IMO.

    ETA: Whoa, the plot thickens even more--if this is the same Robert Gray, he used to be a patent attorney. Someone filed a complaint against him to the USPTO because of his involvement in an invention marketing company. He consented to being excluded from USPTO practice (essentially leaving the patent bar voluntarily instead of being officially disciplined).

    https://e-foia.uspto.gov/Foia/Retrie...DIS_2017-02-22
    Last edited by Bubastes; 09-22-2017 at 10:13 PM.

  7. #7
    Wilde about Oscar aliceshortcake's Avatar
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    The plot thickens, indeed!

    And whilst I sympathise with this company's victims, I also want to give at least a couple of them a thwack round the head with a padded clue bat. One woman set up a Fundly campaign to raise $4000 in order to publish her first book with Green Ivy; she got $20 before closing the campaign. Even worse, a man who complained about not being paid by Green Ivy was particularly upset because his book contained a poetry.com "poem of the year"...

  8. #8
    Rewriting My Destiny Cyia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceshortcake View Post
    This is a real can of worms - it appears that man behind Green Ivy is patent attorney Robert Gray of the Gray Law Group Ltd. I think this might be a case for Victoria Strauss and Writer Beware.
    Didn't VS post about it on Twitter yesterday?

  9. #9
    Cat hair collector PVish's Avatar
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    There's a Facebook Page for Authors Scammed by Green Ivy. However, you have to have been published by them to join. https://www.facebook.com/groups/230974604036392/

  10. #10
    Grumpy writer and editor Absolute Sage Gillhoughly's Avatar
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    That's at least 65 writers on Facebook at about 3500 each. Almost a quarter million stolen from them. Yeah, this leech needs to be jailed. Those are just the ones we know about. He's career.

  11. #11
    Wilde about Oscar aliceshortcake's Avatar
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    I don't know who ArloBrown is but he certainly loves Green Ivy Publishing. I have enreddened the funniest bits:

    As any other industry book publishing business, also have many fraud companies. If a writer has caught up with any of such organizations, it can ruin out his efforts of writing a manuscript. A writer has to be careful while writing, but he has to be more alert while publishing the work. With Green Ivy publishing review one can sure about transparent transactions and guaranteed work. The long list of success stories should make one more believable about the company. Go ahead; share your work with the most prolific company in the business. Green Ivy books review is the best publishing partner for your manuscript.
    https://medium.com/@Arlobrown/how-green-ivy-publishing-review-can-help-you-improve-your-writing-8588f6d0edd
    Today, one out of every ten people has a potential to write a book. They have a story, skills to write, potential to be a writer, but are not sure about publishing the book. There have been myths about the publishing industry such as publishing company can charge you plenty of money or they won’t provide you your share of sales. But, that’s not True!...
    No Agent — Reduce Cost
    Their comprehensive publishing process allows them to directly contact and work with their authors. If you want to publish and promote your book, you don’t need an agent, you can directly contact them and discuss about their benefits and cost.
    https://medium.com/@Arlobrown/green-ivy-publishing-reviews-fact-or-rumor-bd119ff19fe7
    Let’s have a look at reasons why the publisher is so famous! # Reason No. 1: You can trust on the name. It is one of the most reliable names in the publishing industry. A lot of self-publishing companies claim to publish your work, but do not stay upon their word. Many novice authors have lost their money to self publishing-companies. These instances do not happen with green ivy publishing review...green ivy publishing review also provides complimentary copies of the novel to authors. When the author distributes it amongst his kin, it helps in building up goodwill for the publisher itself.
    https://medium.com/@Arlobrown/this-i...s-546c8240eb1c
    Internet is full of many companies claiming to be self-publishers who will help you to publish your first ever book (at a fair price of course) and promising you wild publicity. Some even go a step ahead and promise to land you a contract from one of the leading publishing houses in USA. Sadly, the truth is most of these companies either don’t know a thing about self-publishing or they are intentionally misleading you. Why? They are after your money, what else! But where the mighty fail, a company like Green Ivy Publishing stands tall, that’s what you would find out during this Green Ivy Publishing Review.
    Now you must be thinking that this whole thing cost you thousands of dollars. This is the only point where Green Ivy Publishing Review lets you down. The truth is you will get the most competitive deal at Green Ivy; in fact you won’t have to spend thousands of dollars. Secondly the company maintains a strict confidentiality policy, so you don’t have to worry about someone else stealing your pitch. Honestly, what more a first time author can ask for? So when are you getting your book published?
    https://medium.com/@Arlobrown/green-ivy-publishing-review-a-self-publishing-company-novice-authors-can-bank-upon-491b80955300
    Self-publishing companies have existed since begging of book publishing industry. Until the industrial revolution though, most of the publishing industry consisted of brick and mortar publishing houses. But since the industrial revolution and especially after the discovery of computers and later internet, self-publishing companies too have evolved. Publishing your own book is no longer the costly affair it was prior to internet and computers. As many of our customers have expressed in their online Green Ivy publishing review, publishing their book is very easy, hassle free and comparatively less costly.
    While we really want our clients to succeed we don’t abandon ethics and principal to help them just as explained by one of our customers in a Green Ivy books review. In fact we urge all our clients to stay away from self-publishing companies engaging in unethical practices.
    https://medium.com/@Arlobrown/green-ivy-publishing-review-turning-your-pitch-into-a-book-was-never-so-easy-f7aab0de74a
    Crikey. Faced with a sophisticated come-on like this who could possibly be sceptical?!

    By the way, I emailed "medical intuitive" Jay Caliendo to ask if he's the person of that name involved with Green Ivy. The reply from someone on his team indicated that he isn't.
    Last edited by aliceshortcake; 09-24-2017 at 09:01 PM.

  12. #12
    Grumpy writer and editor Absolute Sage Gillhoughly's Avatar
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    The ones who bleat the loudest about their honesty are the ones to avoid.
    Last edited by Gillhoughly; 09-25-2017 at 01:16 AM.

  13. #13
    The King and Queen of Cheese BenPanced's Avatar
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    Why do those passages remind me of Dr. Bronner soap products?
    I still poop rainbows.

    I won't steal any of your ideas. I have enough of my own I'm not using.


  14. #14
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    I might bet you shekels they are the same guy. But I'm too busy to do deeper searches right now.

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  15. #15
    Christine Tripp ctripp's Avatar
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    Alice, I admire your restraint with a red pencil.... I would of marked every bloody word, it was ALL funny, too much to choose from but did love this
    Self-publishing companies have existed since begging of book publishing industry

  16. #16
    Wilde about Oscar aliceshortcake's Avatar
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    I was reminded of those strange, English-as-a-second-language blog posts in support of Green Shore Publishing:

    http://absolutewrite.com/forums/show...ore-Publishing

    Perhaps there's something about the combination of "green" and "publishing" that brings scammers out of the woodwork!

  17. #17
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    From a marketing standpoint, it's a good keyword. Currently in English the positive connotations of 'green' include healthy, progressive, cutting-edge, renewable resource, high tech, 'clean' luxury, ecological responsibility, outdoors, gardening, and springtime...to name just a few. So it's not surprising to see it as a title or keyword for a lot of scammy companies in dozens of industries.

    That 'green' can also mean 'dangerously or laughably inexperienced' is probably too subtle for those companies.

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  18. #18
    Wilde about Oscar aliceshortcake's Avatar
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    From a serial victim:

    I warn anybody considering self-publishing: DONíT DO IT. It will end up costing you more and really, when you get done, aside from selling e-books, you get NO representation at all from the publishing company in the stores. You, the author, the writer, are expected to also be the salesman. I paid both Xlisbris ($10,000 by the time I got done with them) and Green Ivy Publishing $3,000 who promised to sell it for me Ė or maybe thatís just what I wanted to hear) and in both cases they sold it online only. Personally I am looking for a traditional book publishing company that is Christian based, only because I am a Christian writer and donít swear throughout my book.
    https://thejohnfox.com/best-christian-publishers/
    She's $13,000 out of pocket and her book appears to have sold no copies on Amazon in either its Xlibis or Green Ivy editions...and she could have published it through CreateSpace for next to nothing!

    If only these people would do enough research to understand that
    a) this isn't real self-publishing, and
    b) "traditional" publishers pay you, not the other way round.

  19. #19
    Old Hand in the Biz Barbara R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceshortcake View Post
    From a serial victim:



    She's $13,000 out of pocket and her book appears to have sold no copies on Amazon in either its Xlibis or Green Ivy editions...and she could have published it through CreateSpace for next to nothing!

    If only these people would do enough research to understand that
    a) this isn't real self-publishing, and
    b) "traditional" publishers pay you, not the other way round.
    I too am torn between pity and exasperation. I understand the dynamic. You have to figure that most of these people poured their heart and soul into their work, tried to get it published and failed to get past the agent search stage. It's like being 12 months pregnant and unable to deliver. A person can build up such a load of frustration after repeated rejections that common sense takes a dive. But still! This woman got screwed not once but twice by the same scam. Sort of reminds me of people who get drawn in by venal self-proclaimed mediums, because they so desperately want contact with a dead loved one.

    The results are invariably disappointing, even if they're not criminal, as this one appears to be. But what can you do? The information is out there for anyone who is willing to seek it.

  20. #20
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    Thing is, there *are* noteworthy Christian publishers still open to unagented writers, and some fairly well known Christian / Christian sympathetic literary agencies. I get the feeling this woman didn't look or even learn how to look...twice.

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  21. #21
    Sockpuppet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filigree View Post
    Thing is, there *are* noteworthy Christian publishers still open to unagented writers, and some fairly well known Christian / Christian sympathetic literary agencies. I get the feeling this woman didn't look or even learn how to look...twice.
    This is still a scam agency, right?

    This woman might be a great object lesson, but perhaps having that discussion in this thread inadvertently takes the attention away from the scammer.

  22. #22
    Rewriting My Destiny Cyia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filigree View Post
    Thing is, there *are* noteworthy Christian publishers still open to unagented writers, and some fairly well known Christian / Christian sympathetic literary agencies. I get the feeling this woman didn't look or even learn how to look...twice.
    She's not wanting a Christian publisher, as in "we publish novels about faith;" she's of a mind that any publisher not owned/operated by Christians is going to force her to curse in her book. It's a line I've heard often, and a conversation I actually had to have with family once I was published because they thought the same way. The "I'm a Christian author," bit means that she is a writer, and a Christian, not that she's writing "Christian novels." She imagines that anyone who isn't will force her to add things she's not comfortable with.

    Whatever her book is, without understanding what a publisher means when it calls itself "Christian," (meaning faith-centric stories) she likely submitted things that didn't fit their market focus.

    I would imagine this lady's done little-to-no real research about how publishers operate. She's heard a lot of tales, made some assumptions, and bought into the idea that the only way to control her own work is to self-publish.

    Misconceptions and assumptions like this, especially when they're backed up by like-minded people who also have no idea how things work, makes prime targets for scammers.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
    Misconceptions and assumptions like this, especially when they're backed up by like-minded people who also have no idea how things work, makes prime targets for scammers.
    Especially when scammers themselves propagate the misinformation.

  24. #24
    Grumpy writer and editor Absolute Sage Gillhoughly's Avatar
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    I would rather publish with an honest atheist than any business claiming to be Christian. Years back there was a Christian Yellow Pages in my area and without fail every single business listed was a rip off joint, from car repair to house painting. A couple years ago when I needed a roof, the creepy guy trolling the neighborhood with free estimates kept wanting to get inside my house (no damage there) and gave a price that was 4K above all the others. He had a big fat cross on his business card next to a patriotic eagle and US flag.

    Let us all recall that places like Publish America and Tate publishing were highly vocal about being "Christian." I take it as a red warning flag to run away.

    But the poor woman was sadly uninformed about publishing. There has never been an instance in any of my books--or that of any authors I know--where we were expected to insert 4-letter wordage.

    Although there was a case of a friend whose very religious mother counted all the times the f-word was used in her books--in case my friend wanted to get rid of them.
    Last edited by Gillhoughly; 09-27-2017 at 09:19 PM.

  25. #25
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferical View Post
    This is still a scam agency, right?

    This woman might be a great object lesson, but perhaps having that discussion in this thread inadvertently takes the attention away from the scammer.
    Not what we want, at all! Like other posters, I have noticed a high proportion of scammy businesses using 'Christian' themes or symbols to pull in credulous victims. Knowing how they operate is a good step toward recognizing new scam outfits.

    Green Ivy apparently ticked off most of the 'scam alert' boxes. I feel sad for the victims...less so for those who fell for the scam twice. At this point, for this thread, their experiences make for depressingly familiar object lessons.

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