Rejected on Another Forum, Which Brought me Here

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Articulate Lady

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Hello everyone!

So as you know, or may have seen, I am a newbie to this site. I put in my introduction, (I don't know how many read that), that I was criticized for a poem I wrote on another site. I mean it's just a silly poem, (that I wrote ages ago and I thought that was really good), but it was totally picked apart, line by line, with descriptive criticisms and technical pseudo-writer babble that I couldn't even decode. I mean they were treated me as if I was this advanced poet with a Master's Degree in English Literature, where I am just a simple writer who is just beginning to hone my craft. I may be a step below of a beginner if you ask me.

Anyway, someone on this site said something wonderful to me, which really lifted my spirits, which was, a critique of your work should make you want write MORE, not discourage you from writing. After reading the two pages of critique on my one poem, I was completely discouraged and really didn't even feel like trying. There are just so many times you can tell someone in plain English "you're doing this wrong." Anyway, I think I found my home here and I am going to leave that other writing forum behind. Too bad they got my donation though! I was so excited about being part of a writing community, I blindly gave them money to support their cause, when it is a toxic environment for beginners.

I will be mindful though to have a thicker skin, or be sure to put a "Be Gentle" disclaimer when posting my work on here when I get up to my 50 posts. I also plan on doing a lot of reading to see how the critics are on here. I am really gun-shy now, but I am not ready to give up just yet!
 

Maryn

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Attagirl!

It's an acquired skill, giving honest critique without flaying the writer alive. I try to make every critique note both positives and negatives, give suggested fixes if any occur to me, and offer encouragement to try again.

Not everyone needs critics to protect their feelings, and in my experience, those who don't can be the cruelest critics. The difference between honesty and harshness is huge! And of course there are people who build themselves up by tearing others down. I'm mindful, too, that critics could have had a bad day and are spreading it around.

Anyway, glad to see you survived. We have Band-Aids if you still need 'em.

Maryn, who couldn't write a decent poem if her life depended on it
 

Articulate Lady

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Attagirl!

It's an acquired skill, giving honest critique without flaying the writer alive. I try to make every critique note both positives and negatives, give suggested fixes if any occur to me, and offer encouragement to try again.

Not everyone needs critics to protect their feelings, and in my experience, those who don't can be the cruelest critics. The difference between honesty and harshness is huge! And of course there are people who build themselves up by tearing others down. I'm mindful, too, that critics could have had a bad day and are spreading it around.

Anyway, glad to see you survived. We have Band-Aids if you still need 'em.

Maryn, who couldn't write a decent poem if her life depended on it

Thank you so much!

It is REALLY hard to write a poem, and when you put your thought and heart into it to see it get ripped apart it really hurts. I mean I am not doing it for money, I am doing it for me, and for others to appreciate it. I mean they might hate it, but what if someone else really loves it? What if I really love it? (Which I do).

I mean they didn't say anything BAD to me, they just made me feel so small and insignificant. I am aware that I won't be a master poet, or master writer, but I try damn hard, and I put into the work where I think it is needed.

Awww, thank you for the Band-Aids! I am a big girl, I have been around the internet to know there are toxic places that I should not go to. I will make a home here that's for sure!
 
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CalRazor

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Sorry to hear bout your rejection, Articulate Lady. It' definitely a terrible experience when that happens. If it makes you feel better, I once wrote an (ebook) novella in second person, which made one reader say "congratulations, you just wrote something no one else wants to read (apparently, because second person was never really popular)."
 

Articulate Lady

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Sorry to hear bout your rejection, Articulate Lady. It' definitely a terrible experience when that happens. If it makes you feel better, I once wrote an (ebook) novella in second person, which made one reader say "congratulations, you just wrote something no one else wants to read (apparently, because second person was never really popular)."

I am so sorry to hear about your experience! That must have been awful for you! You know I think we have to just realize that the internet is just a hotbed for people to spew whatever they can because they are behind a screen. It happens all the time. But I am glad you found a home here. I hope to see some of your work soon!
 

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Sorry but I am gonna disagree. I haven't seen the critiques, obviously, so I'm going by this statement you made, "I mean they didn't say anything BAD to me, they just made me feel so small and insignificant..."

Going from amateurish to professionalish requires you getting away from your feelings about what you're told about your work to focusing on improving your work, like the critiquers are doing. There's no way around it and we all have to go through it. It's a big step up from social level ooh-ing and ah-ing by family and friends and it smarts at first. But from what you've said, the critiquers don't need to change because it sounds like all they did was give you a thorough, detailed critique, for which they should be thanked. You need to decide what you want- social praise or serious attempts at helping you improve your work, with you managing your feelings about receiving the correction by others that you asked for.

Another forum even has a separate section for newbies to post their work in so critiquers can focus on the work without chancing putting up with... all that... It's so irritating to help someone with their work at their request only to have them go on about how you hurt their feelings rather than thank you. It makes people just stop critiquing, then everyone loses. If you aren't ready for serious critiques then you shouldn't request them. But then your progress will be stunted by that decision. And, what will you do if your work does get published and those reader comments are not necessarily trying to be constructive, in public, and after you couldn't change anything if you wanted to?

Now, if someone personally attacked or insulted you or was sarcastic, etc., that's different. But giving you a thorough, detailed critique and not humoring you with false praise sprinkled in? No, that's not rejection. That is "Welcome to the next level in trying to go pro."
 
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AW Admin

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Haha! Let me tell you something, with the critique I got, I will be right there having a drink with you!

Before posting something for critique here, it's pretty important (and very good practice) to read a bunch of crits and — this is key — try critting things others have posted, yourself.

There's a real problem in that too many people rush to have 50 posts in order to be able to post in Share Your Work. We really mean it when we tell people not to rush, to take a while and read crits and try critting yourself before you post something for crit.

We also have a poetry subforum for people who simply want to share poems, and aren't particularly interested in crits. See the Chapbook section of the Poetry forum.
 
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Collie

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Critiques should teach, not browbeat.

Yes. If the person walks away from the critique beat down, feeling small, and not wanting to write, the critique was a failure. A good critique leaves you both cognizant of your weaknesses and eager to work on them.

Sorry you had that experience, Articulate Lady. I will also be at the "couldn't write a poem to save my life" section of the bar. I am filled with wild admiration for those who can.
 

Fruitbat

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Abusing a writer in the guise of giving a critique is not okay at all, and I doubt anyone would argue that it is.

However, having given and received literally many hundreds of critiques, I will say it's also pretty rare. Whenever this issue comes up and contains enough info. to see what was actually posted and what the critique comments actually were, it nearly always appears to me that a writer who is brand new to critiques is getting their feelings hurt over being corrected, rather than the suggested corrections being worded in a hurtful way.

There is a huge difference between these two things. Very frequently, the writer feels quite different a few months later, if they continue to participate in serious attempts at critiques. Serious attempts at critiques simply differ from social level and nearly everyone finds they sting a bit at first. So, no, just how a new writer feels after reading their first set of critiques is not the only determining factor imo. I would say just stick with it, first of all. And if someone truly abused you rather than correction just being hard to swallow at first, report it. Good luck!
 
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I just want to encourage you. I've been in some critique groups that are way too harsh...and in others that are too soft. We are all looking for a Goldilocks critique.

I'm with the others who can't write poetry. I do know a lot of poets and agree that what you describe is a toxic environment. I've been in writing for a long time, watched writers start with a struggle and then go on to publication and well deserved awards. What they critiqued could well be just your unique voice! You have to take every critique with a lot of caution.

My favorite critique story comes from a masters class at a writing conference. Everyone was to read everyone else's offering, and then we went around the table with critiques. The person leading the class was an agent. After everyone else gave their critique, he would give his. His critiques were all pretty mild compared to those around the table. Then he pointed out that the writers in this class were trying to one-up each other, cutting each other down. He said that if we ever found ourselves in a group like that to leave immediately. He said that all these critiques had proved was that specific writers at the table either didn't know good writing or were too self-centered to admit that anyone else could be good.

It was a fabulous class, not just because he liked my writing, but because he countered the criticism that I'd received of my own work -- not just in that arena -- with a professional opinion. Changed my approach to writing and critiquing.

I can be a pretty harsh critique partner...but I've learned that if it doesn't help, then there's no point!
 

Fruitbat

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You make some good points, Trina. Critiquers' skill levels vary as widely as writers' skill levels do so it's important to remember any suggested change is only one person's opinion. And of course if you do feel discouraged rather than encouraged, it is not helping you at the time so trying a different place or just pulling back for a while is not a bad idea. Just so you remember that nearly everyone finds critiques a little sting-y at first. :)
 
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Roxxsmom

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It's also possible (and common) for critiquers to use terminology that's unfamiliar to the person being critiqued. Terminology is handy, as it allows you to put a complex principle into a single word. But if the recipient doesn't know what "filtering" is, or "head hopping" or what a "run on sentence" is, use of those terms without a definition won't be very helpful. It can be very hard look like a chump by asking for clarification if everyone seems to know what something means except you, but it's doing them a favor to ask. Critiquers need to be brought back to Earth sometimes too.

It's also possible for critiquers to have the "zeal of the new convert" with regards to some issues. They've just learned what (say) filtering is themselves, or have discovered the "evils" of said bookisms (another term that gets tossed out without explanation sometimes), and they will ruthlessly red line each and every use, even when the critiquee is well within the parameters of what's acceptable in trade publishing.
 
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Articulate Lady

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I think it's fair to say that I have an open mind about this. I am not in a rush to get to 50 posts to join "Share Your Work" yet. I think it will be some time before I ask anyone to critique my work again, because honestly, I don't think I am ready to hear it. FruitBat made some excellent points that really made me think, am I just wanting praise for my work and not helpful insight? I thought about it some more after reading the comments left for me on the other forum, and what I have concluded is I need to read more.

I will say this, whether or not it's my personality or not that caused me to feel belittled and small is another issue entirely. My work is supposed to make ME feel happy, and as I am aiming to please the critics, I am losing sight of the fact that I am doing this for fun and this is not my career. Some may love my poem, some may hate it, but I can't let others dictate my feelings and cause me to not want to write.

As I said before, the conclusion I have made is that I think I am not ready for serious critique just yet. I need to read more, learn more about writing, see what others offer, and maybe make critiques of my own before I venture into sharing my work anytime soon.

Thank you all for commenting and sharing your opinions, I really appreciate it.
 

mccardey

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Critiques should teach, not browbeat.
Well, yes - but it's also important that the person who has put work up for review has done it with a fair degree of knowledge about how critique works. A critique site is primarily about critique, and the work is put up there to garner critique.

So - seconding Admin's post
take a while and read crits and try critting yourself before you post something for crit.
 

Cindyt

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Well, yes - but it's also important that the person who has put work up for review has done it with a fair degree of knowledge about how critique works. A critique site is primarily about critique, and the work is put up there to garner critique.
My point was that critiques should be done without what happened to the OP.
 

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Since this is continuing to be about something

That happened on another forum
With participants who can't explain or defend their actions
That happened in the past and can't be changed

I'm going to lock this thread, with a reminder that crits are about the text, not the writer.
And that as a writer, sooner or later your work will be responded to in ways that you feel are unfair, or inaccurate, or even mean, and that it is imperative to learn to separate yourself from the text.
The book or story or poem isn't you.
 
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