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My character said something sexist - but I'm not sexist

Sonsofthepharaohs

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Seconding Corny - some people are utter asshats with all the good intentions in the world, but the rest of the world (or at least everyone not like them) still think them asshats.

I'm not saying characters who exhibit sexist (or insert other undesirable trait here) characteristics have to be unlikeable, but the trick is to not make them ALL about that trait, and also to show them come to the realisation that said trait is not charming, and try to change it.

Otherwise they will remain an asshat, and that puts them firmly in the antihero camp.
 
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Roxxsmom

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Extra credit work: Oh man, now I'm thinking about ways to write a racist and make that racist as likeable as Nate is appearing. Twick, that's a good system for keeping a character's comments in check.

My thought is that he shouldn't be entirely likeable if he's a racist.

There's no rule that says protagonists have to be entirely likeable, or even likeable at all. I can think of some very good books with protagonists who weren't likeable.

This doesn't mean a racist, sexist or whatever character can't have good qualities, or that their bigoted traits must come from a place of mendacity. There are people who are benignly sexist or racist (they think they're protecting people who aren't quite up to taking care of themselves). There are also people whose sexism or racism (this might go for most of us at some level) are so ingrained, as reflections of the worlds they live in, that they don't even see them in themselves. The old fish not noticing the water they're swimming in thing.

It's not easy, but I've read books where there were deeply flawed characters I still found interesting, even likeable overall, but they also had a trait that was aggravating, even troubling. But since it was part of their arc, and necessary for the story, it worked.

There is a difference between a story where the protagonist's "blind spot" is also the writer's, though, and they are either serving as a spokesperson for the writer in order to push a sexist or racist view, or (in a more subtle way) reflecting a view of the author's that is largely unexamined because it's so much a part of the writer's world that it's like water to fish. We need characters who see their own flaws in this way, but the writer should ideally be aware of them, even if they handle it with great subtlety because those character's views are normalized in their environment.

The latter is one reason why I have trouble reading some of the classics from bygone eras, or at least with getting entirely into them. The various forms of bigotry are so enmeshed that no character ever rebels against them or questions them, or if they do, they capitulate by the end (as in Shakespeare's Taming of the Shrew).

There are modern writers who let their biases show too. For instance, books where every single sexually active woman, no matter how vehemently she insists she doesn't want kids, ends up getting pregnant eventually, or if she can't have children she being deeply sad about it, or else she's portrayed as somehow being a little "off."

There's one writer I really like who does this, and it's a bit of a fly in the ointment for this happily childfree woman who is now past childbearing and isn't consumed with sorrow or regrets.

It's not easy, though, because we don't see our own biases, and who knows what readers from the future might cringe at in our own work, even if we consider ourselves very self aware and enlightened. 20 and early 21st century ideas about capitalism? Meat eating? The way we interact with the environment? Individualism? Keeping animals as pets? Attitudes about the raising of children?

At some point you have to just write what you need to write as mindfully as you can. We can't rise completely above our own biases, but when readers point them out to us, we should consider them at least.
 
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OliverCrown

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To answer the first question: Yes, I do. All the time.

Something I stated to my players when I was a GM (geek, and proud!) was "I don't control any of my characters. All of my characters control themselves." That meant I had heroes, villains and tons of stuff in between. If there was a subject I didn't feel comfortable with as a GM, the story didn't go that way.

Moving this over to writing, there is nobody in my universe I completely agree with. There are several I totally disagree with. Writing these characters does (in my opinion) make me x-ist, nor does it make me a hero. Just a storyteller.

E.G. I have a significant character in one set of stories who would describe herself as a conservative feminist. Does that make me one? No. Do I agree with some of her positions? Yes.


If someone calling out a character for her/his Bovine Stuff helps the story, definitely do it! I would be cautious if the only reason was to make you feel more comfortable.

However I'd always remember - it's your story. You tell it the way you think/feel best.

Granted, that's just my two cents.
 

nelehjr

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Nate is manipulating a handmaiden to spill information. Nate is explaining (sort of bragging a little bit) about how he got the handmaiden to talk. This comment may not be a ten on the richter scale, but it does encourages the gossipy, female stereotype. The moment I typed it out, I felt like deleting it. I'm a woman, and it bothers me when people think of women as the gossipy, high stressed, annoying, female stereotype. Here's what the character said:

“How did you find out about the weapon?”

“James said something weird about leaving his bullet pouch behind. It got me curious, so I wandered over to the High Priestess’ wing. One of Joline’s handmaidens was finicking about moving this gigantic rug, so I asked her if I could help. I mentioned the demon, then shut the hell up and helped her move the rug. Give a stressed woman a chance to speak. You can learn a lot that way.”

I realized then Nate is a little bit sexist. I think I just developed a character that views women as gossipy, b*tchy, annoying, and chatty. He's figured out how to manipulate women. There are a few other points in the novel where Nate interacts with women in a way that toes the line. I never intended to write a character with that underlying tone of sexism, but that's definitely who he turned into.

So...here's my question: Have you ever written a character who has morals and values that you don't agree with? Nate's way of manipulating women is natural to him and it doesn't bother him at all. He brags about it once or twice. It's very subtle, but Nate always views it in a positive light. It bothers me as the author. I don't agree with him. But if I change it, he won't be Nate anymore.

Has anyone else run into this before?

Honestly, I think our characters have lives outside of our own good judgement. They're naughty like that. I have a quote on my wall saying "That's how you know they're really alive." So you've written a jackass?... The chick on the cover in my sig is a spoiled brat. You could always have them at least come to this realization and start taking the steps to work through they're jackassery.