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Story's set in the UK, but I'm American. Do I need to account for British English?

Harlequin

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It's about limiting a market.

for example, I get exasperated with books set in Asia where all the Asians are stupid and have "comically" bad English. It would be easy to fix, but because the author(s) don't bother, they've lost a reader. Not that they care, I'm sure, since actual east Asians aren't their target readers, but the UK is quite a large English speaking market, so it'd be a shame to step on toes needlessly.

It won't bother everyone, or rather, everyone's tolerance for what is or isn't jarring will vary (as shown by Darker Shade of Magic being sky high popular).
 

neandermagnon

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I just loved your examples, not to mention the social commentary, lol. I guess I must fall into the 'posh' category, because I go to a fish and chip shop maybe.... well, since going vegan literally never, but even before that I might have gone once every few years, if I happened to be out late at night (after the theatre, perhaps) and desperate for food and there was nothing else around. And no, I'd never call it a chippie - that's a carpenter in my southern lexicon. Plus, 'fancy' and 'Harry Ramsden's' is rather an oxymoron. The only acceptable fish and chip shop is an independent that has been rated top 10 in the Telegraph :greenie

LOL @ independent that's been rated top 10 in the Telegraph :greenie

"chippie" also gets used for carpenter in my dialect, not just chip shop. Context will indicate what you mean. "The chippie fixed the counter at the chippie" lol

And how would I say that line? Hmm. I don't think I ever would, but here is the nearest equivalent (south west middle class dialect):

'Do you want to pop over to mine first, then we can go to the cinema and get some nibbles on the way - Waitrose do vegan dolmades now, and we can pick up some Alpro hazelnut and chocolate icecream for afters.'

Or something like that :D

:greenie :Thumbs::Thumbs: Love it! It all sounds very posh to me. But then I'm some working class single mum from a council estate that buys all her clothes from Primark with tax credits* and does all the food shopping at Asda. I wear daytime clothes to Asda though (not pajamas) and my weekly shop includes avocados, so I'm not the total polar opposite to posh. :greenie

*I work full time, just my salary's not that high

I'd love to hear various Northern England**, Scottish, Welsh and Irish versions of this now

**as a Londoner, that means anywhere north of the Watford Gap. I think you can probably define the Midlands as anywhere that Londoners consider to be "up North" and Geordies consider to be "down South"
 
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neandermagnon

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I saw that you're changing the setting OP, so I guess this is just generic advice now, but I'd recommend not just a British beta, but a British beta from as close to the physical geographical location where your book is set as you can get.

Yeah I'd agree with this. I wouldn't feel comfortable writing characters from other parts of the UK without double checking stuff. As I said in a previous post, I'm too lazy for that so for contemporary fiction will stick to SE UK working class or lower middle class MCs. But if I did venture beyond that, I'd fact check and get beta reads from people from the appropriate demographic.
 

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My WIP is set in 1732, so old-fashioned jolly and bloody it is.

Don't know if it's just me, but if a story I'm reading is good enough, the heck with the language and culture sins.

"Jolly" and "bloody" aren't appropriate for a story set in 1732. You need to find words which were in use at the time, but which readers will still understand. If you don't, you're putting barriers between your book and publication--and between your book and its potential readers.

Yes, if the story is good enough most readers will forgive a couple of ill-chosen words. But if your book is full of inappropriate dialogue and terms, readers will notice and will not put up with it. Why hamper yourself like that?

LOL @ independent that's been rated top 10 in the Telegraph :greenie

"chippie" also gets used for carpenter in my dialect, not just chip shop. Context will indicate what you mean. "The chippie fixed the counter at the chippie" lol

I think that would be, "The chippie fixed the counter at the chippy".

Surely American readers can cope with different spellings.

You would think. And yet most American publishers will change spellings to suit their market, just to be sure.
 

neurotype

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One of my first novels was set in England with an English MC. I consulted Brits on dialect and slang, etc. but then I moved to the UK for university and realized how complex the language and culture was within even that small pocket of Northern England. It didn't matter how much coaching I had! Most of my classmates were Northern but from different areas and each had their own separate dialects. After four years of living there I am still learning new phrases and concepts. It's not impossible to do if you read a lot of British novels and watch a lot of their TV, but I would definitely question why you have it set in the UK and if it needs to be there :)
 

cornflake

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There's also obviously an aspect of characterization as well -- I don't normally eat french fries for dinner, but grabbing a cone of pomme frites from the fancy chip shop on the way to a theatre is a thing that could happen, as is sneaking a pint of ice cream and a couple of spoons into said theatre, heh. How someone who might do such a thing would suggest it depends on where they are, who they are, etc., as pointed out above more clearly than I did.

There are two issues being discussed here, as far as I can tell.

The first is whether to use UK or USA spellings and punctuation (because yes, punctuation standards vary between the two countries as well as spellings). There's an easy answer to this one: use the one you're most familiar and confident with, and stick to it. Be consistent. If and when it's published elsewhere, those publishers will make the changes necessary to make it work.

The second is how to write a character who is from a country you're not familiar with. VERY CAREFULLY, is the answer to that one. Very few writers can do this well. As others have already said there's a lot more to this than adding in a few choice phrases and telling your reader where they live. You have to be aware of cultural differences, social status, and so on. It's embarrassingly bad when it's not done right. Write characters you know, inside and out. They work much better.

My WIP is set in 1732, so old-fashioned jolly and bloody it is.

Don't know if it's just me, but if a story I'm reading is good enough, the heck with the language and culture sins.

I can forgive a bit, maybe, and this may be entirely personal, but it'll take me right out of a story and ruin it pretty quickly for me if the writer gets the details OH is talking about wrong.

I read an excerpt in SYW once that was really well-written and engaging, except it was set in NYC, and had a parent asking a teenager to go to the market to grab something, and tossing car keys at the kid, who then went, with a sibling, driving down a highway to a supermarket, passing horse-drawn carriages. It was just a few hundred words, but it was so phenomenally wrong for the place it was set that I couldn't focus on anything else. The writer had never been to NYC and was simply equating it with the largest city he or she was familiar with, adding in a NYC detail (horse-drawn carriages), which would make sense, except for how it totally doesn't.

It's more of an issue the more people will be familiar with what you're doing -- getting NYC or London wrong is going to be more noticeable than getting a realistic portrayal of a small town wrong, but there are enough people familiar with the language used in the 1700s that I'd do research to avoid going afoul there too.
 

veinglory

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My WIP is set in 1732, so old-fashioned jolly and bloody it is.

Don't know if it's just me, but if a story I'm reading is good enough, the heck with the language and culture sins.

As someone who royally screwed up many things in a UK-based novella, I can tell you many readers care a great deal indeed. The degree of annoyance relates to things like whether it is a historical novel, and whether it is a author is from a big powerful country writing about a country that is less big and powerful and kind of sick of being appropriated for aesthetic effect.
 

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Thanks everyone for the advice. That makes sense. Having never lived in the UK, I might end up changing the location to the US, since the location itself is not integral to the story.

Maybe it helps to consider how the setting has influenced the characters. Can you imagine them as Americans or is there something - even stereotypically - British about them? The setting determines their background, but I'm not sure if it is correct to assume that, if the setting is not integral for the story, it is not integral for the characters. In my WIP ("progress", heh) there is a Dutch dentist and I'd love to move the setting to Germany - no researching breakfast food, no researching taxes, no researching: houses bought or rent? - but it is impossible for me to imagine him as German! So I have to go through with it.
So, if you can, change, but if it's necessary for your characters to be British, then - prepare and research! :D
 

Al X.

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There are two issues being discussed here, as far as I can tell.

The first is whether to use UK or USA spellings and punctuation (because yes, punctuation standards vary between the two countries as well as spellings). There's an easy answer to this one: use the one you're most familiar and confident with, and stick to it. Be consistent. If and when it's published elsewhere, those publishers will make the changes necessary to make it work.

The second is how to write a character who is from a country you're not familiar with. VERY CAREFULLY, is the answer to that one. Very few writers can do this well. As others have already said there's a lot more to this than adding in a few choice phrases and telling your reader where they live. You have to be aware of cultural differences, social status, and so on. It's embarrassingly bad when it's not done right. Write characters you know, inside and out. They work much better.

Agree on both points. I am an American author and I have both Brits and Aussies in my books. They speak their respective colloquialisms but I use US spelling and punctuation standards, because, well, the language is American English.

I would have no problem with a book set in the US but using UK spelling and punctuation standards, as long as the dialogue is appropriate.

As an interesting aside, I do a fair amount of technical writing in my day job, and we are talking about producing technical documents in Australia and SE Asia where UK (and Aussie) English conventions prevail, I'm a) not going to pretend I know UK standards well enough to apply it to a technical document, and b) we're an American company so dammit you are getting an American English work product. Don't like it, edit it yourself.
 

Orianna2000

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In my WIP ("progress", heh) there is a Dutch dentist and I'd love to move the setting to Germany - no researching breakfast food, no researching taxes, no researching: houses bought or rent? - but it is impossible for me to imagine him as German! So I have to go through with it.
Couldn't you have your Dutch dentist move to Germany? Like, set the story in Germany, but keep the dentist as he is? There's loads of people living in countries that aren't their country-of-origin.

To the OP: I'm in the US, but I set most of my (almost-done WIP) sci-fi/time-travel/romance novel in modern-day London. Although, I sort of cheated and made the female MC a displaced Bostonian from 600 years in the future, while the male MC is a displaced Canadian from 700 years in the future. So if they get certain things wrong, it's okay. Their friends and co-workers are British, so the female MC gets corrected occasionally for calling a torch a flashlight, stuff like that. (I don't necessarily recommend this approach, however, as I also had to invent two entirely new cultures for when they were each at home, in the vaguely post-apocalyptic future, instead of time-traveling. The jury's still out on whether I did that successfully or not.)

On getting it right: it definitely helps to immerse yourself in the culture. I've watched (and written) Doctor Who, Torchwood, and Sherlock for years, which helped with getting the basics right. Visiting London a couple of times made a difference. Having British beta-readers is very important. They can catch tiny (or not so tiny) details that you've overlooked. Google maps (esp. street view) can help tremendously if you can't make a trip to the UK. Also, reading tourist guide books can provide unexpected info, like whether you're supposed to tip at a restaurant, or the best way to get from one place to another. I also read a lot of websites that translate British words and phrases.

It's funny how things suddenly make sense once you learn the lingo. When I was a kid, I watched the miniseries "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" over and over, but I didn't have a clue about British culture or language. So when, as an adult, I learned what "zebra crossings" were, I suddenly understood the part in the show where (paraphrasing from memory here) mankind proves that God exists, but the whole point of God is that you can't prove he exists, so it causes a paradox that literally changes everything, so white becomes black/black becomes white, and everyone gets killed at the next zebra crossing. (Previously, I thought it must be some bizarre reference to zebras stampeding across the road in Africa. . . .)

It's also funny how I now (unintentionally) use British phrases and words in everyday life. It confuses my friends and family. :ROFL:
 

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As has been said above, it's not just the words - it's the rhythm of the language, the slang, the phrases, the jargon. And if it's set in a different time period, the change is even greater. In purely grammatical terms, you should be consistent with whatever you use. If you have British characters, their dialogue (both inner and outer) should match their upbringing and culture. This is true of nationality as well as class and attitude.

The best advice I can offer is to watch a lot of British tv/movies (reality shows are best for modern wordage/historical pieces can get iffy as few are 'authentic'), and then get a couple British beta readers to help you find those places you missed.
 

Sonsofthepharaohs

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My WIP is set in 1732, so old-fashioned jolly and bloody it is.

Don't know if it's just me, but if a story I'm reading is good enough, the heck with the language and culture sins.

I suspect it might matter greatly to some people though, or it would matter much more with some kinds of stories than others. If a story is meant to be an escapist romance or swashbuckling adventure story set in a past that never really was (outside of idealized daydreams) one would write it differently than they would if they're going for an accurate work of historical fiction.

Inaccuracies might also be more noticeable with a contemporary work than they would with a story set before anyone now alive was born.

It's probably a good idea to run one's manuscript, even if it's carefully researched, past at least a couple of readers who are from the part of the world a serious work of contemporary fiction is set in.
 

angeliz2k

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Yes, you need to account for it. As others have said, your character isn't going to be convincingly British if they use clearly American terms (and vice-versa), and, again as others have said, there are major differences in culture. It's not just a surface thing where you throw in "lift" and "boot" and "rubbish" here and there. It has to do with word choice, syntax, and cadence. This is all takes a lot of practice. The best way is to either live in the UK yourself, or, if that's not possible (and obviously it's probably not), then read lots of British literature and watch British TV. Talk to any Brits who may be around.

Just don't go overboard with making the character Oh So English. Don't make them caricatures.

Punctuation and spelling are just a matter of how it looks on the page, which is something different from creating characters/setting/tone. I'm writing British characters myself and using British phrasing but American spelling/punctuation, firstly because it's automatic for me, and secondly because I expect to approach American publishers (and thirdly because it kind of makes sense for the characters, but that's another story). Spelling/punctuation can be easily changed if someone down the line thinks it would be better with British standards. But the words themselves and how they build a convincing character--that is something that needs to be carefully crafted.
 

Sonsofthepharaohs

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...your character isn't going to be convincingly British if they use clearly American terms....read lots of British literature and watch British TV. Talk to any Brits who may be around...

Just don't go overboard with making the character Oh So English.

...
I'm writing British characters myself and using British phrasing but American spelling/punctuation... it would be better with British standards-


AAAAARRRRRGGGHHH!!! NOOOOOOO!!! FOR THE LOVE OF BREXIT STOPPIIITTTT!!!!!

Can we please just ban the word 'British' when referring to culture / accent or anything else that regularly gets homogenised from the beautifully diverse and ever so slightly mental juxtaposition of disparate identities that makes up our beautiful United Kingdom?? There IS no 'British' accent - if you want to go down to the broadest classification that makes sense, say Scottish, or Welsh (everyone say whut?) or English. But it makes me roll my eyes so hard when people refer to us as having 'British accents' - or even worse, use it interchangeably with English.

Eye twitchy rant over... :Wha:
 

angeliz2k

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Kallithrix, I didn't say British accent or British culture anywhere. I didn't mention accents at all. I mentioned culture inasmuch as to say one needs to get not just the words but the culture right. I didn't say there was one British culture. And I didn't say or imply that British=English (or vice-versa); I simply used the two words in the same post. So please don't rant. I'll say this once because I've seen this argument before, and I won't get into it: the diversity within the UK is beautiful, and I'm well aware of it, and I have never and will never say or imply otherwise.
 

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Having lived in the U.K. for a few years, and traveled widely within it, I ultimately came to the opinion that a skilled linguist could probably determine a U.K. native person's locality of birth within a few yards, just by hearing them speak for about thirty seconds.

caw
 

Sonsofthepharaohs

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Kallithrix, I didn't say British accent or British culture anywhere. I didn't mention accents at all. I mentioned culture inasmuch as to say one needs to get not just the words but the culture right. I didn't say there was one British culture.

Oh, but you did say 'British phrasing' which is very close, so lets not split hairs TOO much... you Britished HARD all over your post, so... I'll rant if I wanna :greenie
 

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My last novel begins in London, then moves elsewhere. Those first four chapters got beta-read by UK folks, but there were differences of opinion on various terms, food habits etc between Londoners, and those from outside London. I think it matters what part of UK it is set in--get beta-reads from peeps from that location, if possible.