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Thread: [Publisher] Book Marketing Solutions, LLC

  1. #1
    practical experience, FTW acousticgroupie's Avatar
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    [Publisher] Book Marketing Solutions, LLC

    Anyone heard anything? It's half a vanity publisher but he offers small press services too from what he says.

  2. #2
    One Hit Wonder? Kasey Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Half a vanity publisher is half too much for me. I would much prefer to go with a reputable small press that's not affiliated with any vanity services. Just my own opinion, however. Sorry I don't have any specific information for you.
    Good things come to those who wait...and work their tails off!!!


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  3. #3
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    The expensive "marketing" services this company offers are based on press releases and mass mail announements--two of the least effective of all promotional methods.

    - Victoria

  4. #4
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Book Marketing Solutions, LLC

    http://bookmarketingsolutions.com

    We exist to achieve high-level success and notoriety for authors and experts wanting to publish their work in North America and beyond.
    I'm not sure notoriety is the word they're looking for.

    Imprints: Austin Hamilton, Harvest Day Books, Holy Cow Publishing

    Notice the owner's books: "Best Seller 101" and a fleet of poetry books. http://www.readingup.com/categories.asp
    ICAO
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    II 2016: 2017:

  5. #5
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaoPaux
    http://bookmarketingsolutions.com

    I'm not sure notoriety is the word they're looking for.

    Imprints: Austin Hamilton, Harvest Day Books, Holy Cow Publishing

    Notice the owner's books: "Best Seller 101" and a fleet of poetry books. http://www.readingup.com/categories.asp
    I sent off this query to Tom White:
    Editor,

    Looking at your website I am left with a lot of questions.

    1)Are you only a subsidy publisher?

    2) Do you routinely charge the author any fees?

    3) If I walk into three national book store chains, will I find any of your publications on the shelves in any one of those stores?

    4) Do you accept and publish any book without charging the author fees?

    5) Do you pay advances, and do you pay royalties on the cover price or the "net" price, and if the latter is true, how do you compute the "net" price.

    Regards,
    Scott
    --------------------
    And got this reply:

    Scott,

    Here are short answers to your questions:

    1) Are you only a subsidy publisher?
    No. We are a hybrid publishing company in that we chose to build our
    business model on utilizing the best of traditional publishing coupled
    with the independence, control, and nimbleness of independent publishing.
    Although in many cases authors contribute toward production costs, we
    team up with them to contribute time and money toward the distribution
    infrastructure, publicity, branding, promotion of the book and author,
    revisions, reprints, electronic product creation, engagement scheduling,
    Internet marketing, audio, and more. Many subsidy publishers do
    thousands of books per year -- dozens per day -- an assembly line,
    high-volume approach. We choose to publish only books that we can be actively
    involved in for many years to come.

    2) Do you routinely charge the author any fees?
    78% of the time yes, but only to offset the initial production fees,
    such as manuscript development, design, layout, and industry
    registrations. 22% of the time, we have chosen to invest in the full project and
    charge no fees to authors. Yet, sometimes authors or businesses come to
    us to expertly handle certain aspects of their projects such as when
    they are self-publishing. For those services, we charge fees to
    accomplish the task.

    3) If I walk into three national book store chains, will I find any of
    your publications on the shelves in any one of those stores?
    Because most of our titles are fairly new releases, some will soon be
    distributed to the national chains. Most in the meantime are now
    selling direct to consumer and to special markets like corporations, gift
    wholesalers, book clubs, or other miscellaneous niches -- the approach
    depends on the book and the goals of the author. Our most recent books
    are going out regionally (first) as our authors begin their speaking
    tours/engagements with their book. Our publicity is directed to the same
    markets as the events and so follows our distribution. This way, we
    support the author in any town where they are speaking, consulting, doing
    interviews, obtain press clippings, or are hosting book signings. The
    publicity will increase nationally through time.

    4) Do you accept and publish any book without charging the author fees?
    Yes, 22% of the time we handle projects without charging any fees to
    the author.

    5) Do you pay advances, and do you pay royalties on the cover price or
    the "net" price, and if the latter is true, how do you compute the
    "net" price?
    We do not pay advances. Royalties are based on revenue received. Our
    authors receive more from our direct sales than they would from sales
    which flow through wholesalers, distributors or other middlemen. In
    some instances, the royalty is based on cover price, other times it is
    based on net which is figured as income received less print cost and
    shipping cost. Our royalty percentages are much higher than the industry
    average of 10.7% of net. We pay up to 50% of cover price depending on
    the publishing agreement and how the author is published.

    Scott, I hope this information is helpful to you. We handle each
    project individually and attempt to work toward the goals of the author in a
    manner that creates win/win/win situations for all involved. If you
    have a book manuscript and would like to discuss this further, please
    contact me directly.

    Sincerely,

    Tom White, President
    Book Marketing Solutions, LLC
    10300 E. Leelanau Ct.
    Traverse City MI 49684

    231.929.1999 voice
    231.929.1993 fax

    Tom@BookMarketingSolutions.com
    BookMarketingSolutions.com
    Online Bookstore: ReadingUp.com
    ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:
    ---------------------------------------------

    He requested four chapters and a synopsis, so I sent it, He is only considering it for in-house publishing (no fees to me)

    I'll let you know the outcome personally; but, generally speaking his communications to me have been forthright, honest, timely and accomodating.

    If he bites on the manuscript - THEN - I'll get advice on the contract.

    Right now, I like him personally. I don't think it will change on the basis of his yes, or no on the particular manuscript.

    Regards,
    Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
    [URL]http://www.bluphier.com/[/URL]

  6. #6
    I Heart Mac Absolute Sage Lauri B's Avatar
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    This is beyond a dumb idea, Scott. If his definition of a "hybrid" publisher doesn't get you, then his assertion that they sell primarily to corporate accounts, gift wholesalers, and book clubs right now, but might go national in the future should send you running.

  7. #7
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    1) Are you only a subsidy publisher?

    No. We are a hybrid publishing company in that we chose to build our business model on utilizing the best of traditional publishing coupled with the independence, control, and nimbleness of independent publishing. Although in many cases authors contribute toward production costs, we team up with them to contribute time and money toward the distribution infrastructure, publicity, branding, promotion of the book and author, revisions, reprints, electronic product creation, engagement scheduling, Internet marketing, audio, and more. Many subsidy publishers do thousands of books per year -- dozens per day -- an assembly line, high-volume approach. We choose to publish only books that we can be actively involved in for many years to come.
    Translation: Yes, we are a subsidy publisher. What's more, we don't realize that "independence, control, and nimbleness" are irrelevant to selling a significant amount of books.

    2) Do you routinely charge the author any fees?

    78% of the time yes, but only to offset the initial production fees, such as manuscript development, design, layout, and industry registrations. 22% of the time, we have chosen to invest in the full project and charge no fees to authors. Yet, sometimes authors or businesses come to us to expertly handle certain aspects of their projects such as when they are self-publishing. For those services, we charge fees to accomplish the task.
    Translation: If you go with us, you are self-publishing. Except in those few cases where we believe we could actually make more money from the sale of the book than from you.

    3) If I walk into three national book store chains, will I find any of your publications on the shelves in any one of those stores?

    Because most of our titles are fairly new releases, some will soon be distributed to the national chains. Most in the meantime are now selling direct to consumer and to special markets like corporations, gift wholesalers, book clubs, or other miscellaneous niches -- the approach depends on the book and the goals of the author. Our most recent books are going out regionally (first) as our authors begin their speaking tours/engagements with their book. Our publicity is directed to the same markets as the events and so follows our distribution. This way, we support the author in any town where they are speaking, consulting, doing interviews, obtain press clippings, or are hosting book signings. The publicity will increase nationally through time.
    Translation: We don’t understand how books get into stores, so we’re sticking with what we do know: seminar marketing.

    4) Do you accept and publish any book without charging the author fees?

    Yes, 22% of the time we handle projects without charging any fees to the author.
    See above.

    5) Do you pay advances, and do you pay royalties on the cover price or the "net" price, and if the latter is true, how do you compute the "net" price?

    We do not pay advances. Royalties are based on revenue received. Our authors receive more from our direct sales than they would from sales which flow through wholesalers, distributors or other middlemen. In some instances, the royalty is based on cover price, other times it is based on net which is figured as income received less print cost and shipping cost. Our royalty percentages are much higher than the industry average of 10.7% of net. We pay up to 50% of cover price depending on the publishing agreement and how the author is published.
    Translation: We don’t pay advances because that would crimp our cash flow. Our authors can get more per book, but won’t sell nearly as many as if they'd gone with a commercial publisher.

    …We handle each project individually and attempt to work toward the goals of the author in a manner that creates win/win/win situations for all involved….
    Translation: we access how much an author is willing to pay us to be published.

    Scott, I too am puzzled by why you would approach these folks. If by some chance they indeed offer you the "no pay" option, you'll have no distribution/bookstore presence.
    ICAO
    ---------
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  8. #8
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad
    This is beyond a dumb idea, Scott. If his definition of a "hybrid" publisher doesn't get you, then his assertion that they sell primarily to corporate accounts, gift wholesalers, and book clubs right now, but might go national in the future should send you running.
    I will probably pass on the contract offer - just hoping for better. But if he does offer a contract, and I can negotiate better distribution - is it still a better idea. He' already signed off on doing the rounds with ARC's if he is interested in the book.I won't sign NOTHIN' til I know its acceptable. And before I decide its acceptable, I'll run it through you guys for sure.Regards,Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
    [URL]http://www.bluphier.com/[/URL]

  9. #9
    5 W's & an H Sassenach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popeyesays
    I will probably pass on the contract offer - just hoping for better. But if he does offer a contract, and I can negotiate better distribution -
    And how will you do that?
    I feel God in this Chili's.
    -Pam Beesley









  10. #10
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassenach
    And how will you do that?
    By asking?Regards,Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
    [URL]http://www.bluphier.com/[/URL]

  11. #11
    Empirical Storm Trooper MadScientistMatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popeyesays
    I will probably pass on the contract offer - just hoping for better. But if he does offer a contract, and I can negotiate better distribution - is it still a better idea. He' already signed off on doing the rounds with ARC's if he is interested in the book.I won't sign NOTHIN' til I know its acceptable. And before I decide its acceptable, I'll run it through you guys for sure.Regards,Scott
    Any outfit where some of the authors pay to publish is going to have a certain stigma. It's going to make it hard to get bookstore placement and reviews. Kinda like if you were a woman who worked for the Mustang Ranch - even if you were their accountant, people are likely to make the wrong assumption there.

  12. #12
    Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales Absolute Sage Susan Gable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popeyesays
    By asking?Regards,Scott
    Uhhhhh...if they don't have the channels in place for proper, wide distribution, how will your asking make it any different? <scratching head>

    Susan G.
    Susan Gable www.susangable.com
    As Good As His Word
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  13. #13
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Gable
    Uhhhhh...if they don't have the channels in place for proper, wide distribution, how will your asking make it any different? <scratching head>

    Susan G.
    He says he's putting distribution in place, and, if that's true, the earliest possible publication of my book would be February next year. He said, ARC's could be printed first for distribution to reviewing venues.
    If he can't convince me that's true, I won't go that way. If I can't get it noted in the contract, I won't go that way.
    So far - no direct offer. So far - no contract to wonder about. So far - no chance for me to ponder or negotiate the agreement. So-far I don't need to talk to the lawyers I do know, one of whom practices contract law.
    So far, not only is it no runs, no hits and no errors, but its no "at bats".
    If it does get to those stages, I'll be here with bells on to see who says what. Absolutely, you guys saved me from thinking my only option was Lulu. I won't throw away advice - especially when its been good so far.
    I'm not really a spring chicken, and to pluck me ya gotta catch me, so no signo without contracto I like. And no sign without every bit of advice I can find - especially you guys.
    Regards,Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
    [URL]http://www.bluphier.com/[/URL]

  14. #14
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    Scott, be careful--experience in contract law is not sufficient to understand a publishing contract, which has specialized terms of art, and which requires experience in publishing specifically to know what's standard and what's not. Your lawyer friend could be helpful, but you really need a lawyer with experience in publishing and intellectual property.

    As for distribution, it's the Holy Grail of small publishers, and for a good reason: It's desperately hard to get, and without it, you can't succeed. Many small publishers have a good plan to get distribution, but never manage to do it, because it's not just a matter of what they want or plan. Distributors decide whether or not to pick them up, too, and I have to tell you, given that this place is a subsidy publisher, it's not going to be appealing to distributors.

    My advice? Don't bother with penny-ante crap like this place. If your book's good enough to be published, do it right. Go with someone proven.
    Winner of Uncle Jim's Whoo Hoo Super Writer Award and Nomad's Most Use of Vowels in a Screen Name Award as well as Maryn's Only Person on AW Whose Name Anagrams to "I, Octane," "Act I (One)" and "Nice tao" Award in addition to batgirl's Culpeper Award for Botanically Erudite Screen Name plus awatkins' AW's Most Creative Srounger [sic] of Rep Points Award not to mention azbikergirl's Arizona Most Awarded Writer Award and also Dawno's Most Interesting Signature Line Award

  15. #15
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aconite
    Scott, be careful--experience in contract law is not sufficient to understand a publishing contract, which has specialized terms of art, and which requires experience in publishing specifically to know what's standard and what's not. Your lawyer friend could be helpful, but you really need a lawyer with experience in publishing and intellectual property.

    As for distribution, it's the Holy Grail of small publishers, and for a good reason: It's desperately hard to get, and without it, you can't succeed. Many small publishers have a good plan to get distribution, but never manage to do it, because it's not just a matter of what they want or plan. Distributors decide whether or not to pick them up, too, and I have to tell you, given that this place is a subsidy publisher, it's not going to be appealing to distributors.

    My advice? Don't bother with penny-ante crap like this place. If your book's good enough to be published, do it right. Go with someone proven.
    I won't do it, unless it IS right. My book is worth publishing and I won't out it anywhere if it cannot be found and read by the bookshop browser. I won't put it there if there's a chance of a slip in the deal.

    Regards,
    Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
    [URL]http://www.bluphier.com/[/URL]

  16. #16
    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    Scott, do you have any idea of what would constitute effective distribution? No offense, but I always sigh to see people who think they can negotiate "marketing" and "distribution" when they have only the haziest idea of what these things mean in the real world of publishing (as opposed to the imaginary world that companies like this one encourage you to believe in).

    - Victoria

  17. #17
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriastrauss
    Scott, do you have any idea of what would constitute effective distribution? No offense, but I always sigh to see people who think they can negotiate "marketing" and "distribution" when they have only the haziest idea of what these things mean in the real world of publishing (as opposed to the imaginary world that companies like this one encourage you to believe in).

    - Victoria
    Do I know enough? Probably not, but I have some good basic understanding of how retail works. If the bookstores can't get the book at reasonable discount they're not going to take it. If the distributors and wholesalers don't have the book, it'll never make it to the retailer.

    The book has to be discounted, so the wholesaler and the retailer can make enough to cover their expenses and show some profit. The merchandise has to be returnable or saleable to the retailer for him to pass unsold stock off to the publisher or a close-out book company (who are quite often the distributors themselves).

    Distributors include places like:
    Ingrams
    Associated Publisher's Group
    Book Clearing House (which handles a number of small print houses)
    Atlas, C&B, Independent Publisher's Group, Midpoint Trade Group.

    No distributor, no book store sales - no books store sales, no money. Why sell hundreds when you could wait to sell thousands. Even if I am soon to be pullking, rather than pushing, sixty.

    In this instance if he doesn't have access to distributors and wholesalers, I'm going to be really picky about him showing how he's going to get it. But, I repeat, I have not signed and he has not offered at this point. I'm perfectly willing to say no and wait.

    Heck, maybe the lady agent who was very nice in her turn down might look at my stuff out of pity if I asked about a particular contract - who knows?

    But one offer is not going to make me wet my pants in delirium. It is just an offer. I can say "no".

    I'm taking the advice you guys give in lots of ways - probably in this way as well.

    And I have started a second book - NOT the sequel to the one out now, though I have those two sequels plotted out.

    Right now I'm working on an historical novel about the Royal Flying Corps in 1917 - almost five thousand words so far.

    So, I'll keep busy while I wait for the RIGHT deal. And I will ask you guys whenever I get an offer, for advice.

    Regards,
    Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
    [URL]http://www.bluphier.com/[/URL]

  18. #18
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    So, how did it work out for you, Scott?
    ICAO
    ---------
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

  19. #19
    Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us at AW Requiescat In Pace Popeyesays's Avatar
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    I never heard a word from him, until I told him the book had found a publisher.

    Regards,

    Scott
    [B]Okay, damnit, I blog [URL]http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/[/URL][/B]
    [B]Sword of the Dajjal[/B] e-book, [SIZE=2]Published by BooksForABuck.com May, 2007 ISBN: 978-1-602-052-2 [URL]http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html[/URL][/SIZE]
    Out in print early 2008 from Blu Phi'er[URL="http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached"][/URL]
    [B]Jars of Doom[/B] out mid 2008 from Blu Phi'er
    [URL]http://www.bluphier.com/[/URL]

  20. #20
    Mostly Harmless SuperModerator CaoPaux's Avatar
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    Site was revamped in '10, but remains incomplete and has not been updated since.
    ICAO
    ---------
    Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
    I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

    II 2016: 2017:

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