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Thread: Hello the Aussies (1) The Marriage Equality Postal Survey

  1. #1
    please distract me mccardey's Avatar
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    Hello the Aussies (1) The Marriage Equality Postal Survey

    I'm trying to not exist in an echo chamber. So - is there any sensible person to listen to about for the NO! side of the marriage equality thing? There isn't, is there... I have tried fb and the twitterer and I can't find a single one.
    Last edited by mccardey; 09-19-2017 at 03:18 AM. Reason: Title upgrade and general clarity

  2. #2
    beef rank be frank's Avatar
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    The issue, I think (and all of Mr. BF's older, white, conservative, male, LNP voting rellies agree with this), is that there is no valid argument for the No! side. So any and all No! arguments, even from otherwise level-headed and well-reasoned people, are gonna be specious.*

    FWIW, all these in-law rellies with whom I get into shouty arguments most weeks (a couple are pro-Trump! They believe the Adani mine will be great for jobs and not at all problematic for the environment! They use the term "PC" in that pejorative way that means they don't actually know what it means!) ... every single last one of them cannot understand what the problem is with having SSM and will be "voting" yes.


    *Basically, it's impossible for a well-reasoned argument in favour of No! because no such argument exists.
    The early bird may catch the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

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  3. #3
    please distract me mccardey's Avatar
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    Well, that's certainly heartening! It's only Lyle Shelton then. (And we already banned him from The Little Gay Cubby-House)

  4. #4
    beef rank be frank's Avatar
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    And Tony Abbott and Dennis Hart and their ilk. But ... yep.
    The early bird may catch the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

    here be all the query exercises

  5. #5
    Cultured vulture Albedo's Avatar
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    What BF said. There are no coherent arguments against marriage equality. Moreover, the average Australian isn't scared of gay and lesbian people anymore. That's why the No campaign doesn't actually argue against it: they focus their efforts on attacking transgender children and claiming that our unspecified freedoms are under attack by the PC mafia.

    It's such a sad effort that it's going to be really fucking depressing when they win.
    Alex

  6. #6
    Perpetually in transit Helix's Avatar
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    I have yet to hear a sensible and focused argument against marriage equality.


  7. #7
    beef rank be frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    I have yet to hear a sensible and focused argument against marriage equality.
    You mean, "Marriage is about having children!" doesn't cut it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm shocked. Shocked, I tells ya.
    The early bird may catch the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

    here be all the query exercises

  8. #8
    Perpetually in transit Helix's Avatar
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    I'm glad I missed Handy Andy Hastie talking about "sexual intercourse".


  9. #9
    beef rank be frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    I'm glad I missed Handy Andy Hastie talking about "sexual intercourse".
    Oh god. *shudder* That's an abstinence programme right there.
    The early bird may catch the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

    here be all the query exercises

  10. #10
    practical experience, FTW SianaBlackwood's Avatar
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    I can't point you towards a sensible NO argument, but I did come across an interesting account of the history that's brought us to this point: 'Law and the marriage equality debate' by Dr Matt Collins QC, a Melbourne-based barrister, academic and writer. It gives a pretty good breakdown of the arguments being used - interestingly, they seem to be mostly the same inaccurate studies and statistics that were cited in the argument against decriminalizing homosexuality.
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  11. #11
    please distract me mccardey's Avatar
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    Someone sent me this, this morning. Apparently I'm not the only one having trouble understanding the No side....

  12. #12
    beef rank be frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mccardey View Post
    Someone sent me this, this morning. Apparently I'm not the only one having trouble understanding the No side....
    Well, that's goin' straight to the pool room Facebook page.
    The early bird may catch the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

    here be all the query exercises

  13. #13
    beef rank be frank's Avatar
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    I've been getting an increasingly uneasy gut-feeling that No is going to get up.

    I don't have a point here, I just had to share. I'm worried.
    The early bird may catch the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

    here be all the query exercises

  14. #14
    Cultured vulture Albedo's Avatar
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    You're not alone. And I haven't even received my survey form yet. (The last mail the ABS sent me -- the 2016 census -- came two weeks late, but it's probably just as likely my ballot has 'disappeared'.) This whole thing is designed to fail in the most gutpunching way possible.
    Alex

  15. #15
    beef rank be frank's Avatar
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    The longer it drags out, the more the buzz seems to be for No. Why the hell are people in this country so easily swayed by nonsensical scare tactics?

    The thing that annoys me most right now are all those people writing letters to the editor and calling talk back (ABC - I'm not a masochist) saying, "Well, I was going to vote yes, but I'm <tired of this thing> <upset by what Benjamin Law said> <insert other inane reason here> so now I'm going to vote No."

    God knows if these people were really ever going to vote Yes, but honestly. How can they toy with people's lives on a whim like that?

    I just want to tear out my hair and scream at the unfairness of the whole thing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm glad I can come here to vent, though. Doesn't help anything, but it keeps my BP down a bit.
    The early bird may catch the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

    here be all the query exercises

  16. #16
    Barricade AW Moderator regdog's Avatar
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    Non Aussie here, but I am a Massachusetts resident. I want to let you Aussies know exactly what happened here after we legalized gay marriage. Yes, many other states warned we would become Sodom and Gomorrah, but I want to tell you first hand as a resident who lived through it.


    Some residents finally married.

    The End.
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  17. #17
    beef rank be frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regdog View Post
    Non Aussie here, but I am a Massachusetts resident. I want to let you Aussies know exactly what happened here after we legalized gay marriage. Yes, many other states warned we would become Sodom and Gomorrah, but I want to tell you first hand as a resident who lived through it.


    Some residents finally married.

    The End.
    You're preaching to the choir here. Pretty sure all AW Aussies are on the same page (at least, those of us who post).

    Alas, the people who need to hear that kind of thing don't/won't hear it.
    The early bird may catch the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

    here be all the query exercises

  18. #18
    Barricade AW Moderator regdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by be frank View Post
    You're preaching to the choir here. Pretty sure all AW Aussies are on the same page (at least, those of us who post).

    Alas, the people who need to hear that kind of thing don't/won't hear it.

    I know that. It's why I posted what I did. There is absolutely no argument that is not religious or personal prejudice against gay marriage.
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  19. #19
    Cultured vulture Albedo's Avatar
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    Here's a particularly sad outcome we might see. The survey barely passes and the parliament actually legislates for SSM ... with 'religious protections' that go so far they erase currently existing discrimination protections for LGBT people. So we in effect go backwards. Don't underestimate the bastardry of this mob.
    Alex

  20. #20
    beef rank be frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regdog View Post
    There is absolutely no argument that is not religious or personal prejudice against gay marriage.
    Nope. Not a one. Which is why this whole thing is infuriating. People are still harping on about What about the children? This has been shot down seven ways to Monday, but somehow the What about the children? people never seem to respond when the (many) problems with that logic is pointed out to them.

    Same with all the other spurious arguments. They either don't see or choose to ignore all logic. Which is I wish more people would see posts like yours. That they'd realize the end result of equal marriage is ... more people getting married. That's it.
    The early bird may catch the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

    here be all the query exercises

  21. #21
    beef rank be frank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albedo View Post
    Here's a particularly sad outcome we might see. The survey barely passes and the parliament actually legislates for SSM ... with 'religious protections' that go so far they erase currently existing discrimination protections for LGBT people. So we in effect go backwards. Don't underestimate the bastardry of this mob.
    Yep. They win, we lose. We win, we lose.

    And the whole thing was (surprise, surprise) Peter Dutton's idea.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That man is a stain on humanity.
    The early bird may catch the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

    here be all the query exercises

  22. #22
    Heckuva good sport frimble3's Avatar
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    And the trickle-down of 'more people getting married' is: more business for wedding venues, wedding consultants, organizers, fancy clothiers, liquor sales, caterers, and honeymoon resorts.
    What's the down-side?

    And, this in Australia. Where are the toothed and clawed and venomous when you need a creature to eliminate a politician or rabble-rouser?

    Canada: another place not destroyed by SSM.

  23. #23
    please distract me mccardey's Avatar
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    Groups such as ReachOut, Headspace and BeyondBlue have all reported increased calls or website traffic since the campaign kicked off in August.
    One of the country's top mental health experts – former "Australian of the Year" Professor Patrick McGorry – says for many people the campaign is reviving traumatic memories of the bullying and discrimination they faced at school. Link
    They're causing so much grief and angst to absolutely no purpose.

    ETA: And that idiot conservative on the ABC last night who defended the no vote on the basis that Separate But Equal was fine, and after all a black man couldn't become a white man. Ugh. Seeing the worst of Australia - just for a change. It's been all downhill for so long now.
    Last edited by mccardey; 09-19-2017 at 12:58 AM.

  24. #24
    partial to Tigers in shorts ajaye's Avatar
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    Seeing a lot of 'I was going to vote yes but all this hatred and anger toward people who say they'll vote no has changed my mind' bullshit on fb. One (with his marriage photo in his avie) went on to say gays aren't the victims any more but enjoy playing the victim card. Oh, and two wrongs don't make a right (cos that's always a good one). Wouldn't mind seeing that guy punched in the face, even if it did make him feel even better about voting no.

  25. #25
    Perpetually in transit Helix's Avatar
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    I wrote a comment about that clown Roger Corbett last night, but deleted it because of its...er...lack of restraint. If that's the best the No case can offer, this ought to be a rout.


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